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Blisterz is offline Blisterz
Chieftain

Nov 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 10:41
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Mumia Abu-Jamal Enter the AD-FREE zone

FORMER D.A. ELECTED GOVERNOR:
RENDELL THEATENS EXECUTION OF MUMIA

By Betsey Piette
Philadelphia

Now that former Philadelphia Mayor Ed Rendell is governor-
elect of Pennsylvania, concern is mounting that he will try
to carry out his campaign promise to reinstate the death
penalty against political activist and journalist Mumia Abu-
Jamal. Rendell, also a former District Attorney in
Philadelphia, publicly called for Abu-Jamal's execution.

Nearly a year ago, on Dec. 18, 2001, Third Circuit Judge
William Yohn overturned the death penalty in the case of
Mumia Abu-Jamal, but upheld Abu-Jamal's conviction for the
1981 shooting of a Philadelphia police officer--a murder
that self-described hit-man Arnold Beverly has now confessed
to. Yet despite Yohn's ruling and Beverly's confession, Abu-
Jamal has remained on death row, and each step of his appeal
process has encountered stiff resistance from a state
seemingly bent on executing an innocent person.

Two appeals have been filed: one from the prosecution,
appealing Yohn's overturning of the death penalty, the other
from Abu-Jamal's attorneys appealing the upholding of the
conviction. Both appeals are on hold in the United States
Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, pending a ruling by
the Pennsylvania Supreme Court on an earlier appeal.
Opening briefs in the appeal process were filed over the
past few months by Abu-Jamal's attorneys and by the
prosecution. Defense attorneys Eliot Grossman and Marlene
Kamish have also asked the state court to reconsider a
hearing date for oral arguments. The court had initially
denied this request before all the written briefs were even
received for review.

Also awaiting a ruling is a motion by Abu-Jamal's attorneys
to disqualify Pennsylvania State Supreme Court Justice
Ronald Castille from hearing Mumia's appeal. Castille, when
he was Philadelphia County District Attorney, had
supervisory responsibility for the "McMahon videotape"--a
training tape for prosecutors on how to exclude African
Americans from juries. In their motion, Abu-Jamal's
attorneys point out that during his trial, African-American
jurors were peremptorily challenged by the prosecutor during
jury selection because of their race.

Because the courts have so far refused to admit into
evidence a videotape of Arnold Beverly's confession that he
killed Officer Daniel Faulkner, Grossman and Kamish have
also requested that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court permit
Beverly to appear before them to testify. Beverly's written
and videotaped confession, in which he exonerates Abu-Jamal
of any participation in the shooting, was previously filed
with the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. No ruling has been made
on this request.

Time and again his attorneys have presented the courts with
evidence that Abu-Jamal is innocent. Supporters are
demanding that the courts hear this evidence, in particular
the Beverly confession. An amicus brief on behalf of several
labor unions filed by attorney Michael Yamamoto provides an
excellent, concise and to-the-point presentation of the
evidence.

A campaign is underway to get the names of individuals and
organizations on Notices of Joinder forms to be filed in the
Pennsylvania Supreme Court, joining the Yamamoto amicus
brief. Information on the joinder campaign is available
through International Concerned Family and Friends of Mumia
Abu-Jamal at (215) 476-8812, e-mail ICFFMAJ@aol.com
.

http://www.cb3rob.net/~merijn89/mumia/msg00101.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew a little about this case from some friends that are quite involved in the movment to get Mumia released. What I did not know, is that someone else has CONFESSED to the murder. He is innocent, and they know it. What I am still not sure of, is Arnold Beverly admited to the murder, was he arrested? If so, how can they hold 2 people for the same crime. If not, why is he Mumia in Jail for a crime that someone else commited, and the police/courts/gov't are aware of. Do any of you guys have anymore info on this situation?


Ok now... DEBATE.

Timexwatch is offline Timexwatch
King
Columbia Heights, Washington D.C.
Jul 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 12:02
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First: Just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't mean they let the one convicted of it out. There has to be corrobation of facts, an investigation and court hearings. I could confess to being the one that shot the Pope, that doesn't mean the other guy is getting out of prison in Italy.


Second: I wish the "Free Mumia" movement wasn't such a celebrity cause because otherwise I might pay a bit of attention to his case...

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 12:03
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Tired of ads?

I shot JFK

Jon Miller

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 13:10
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http://www.danielfaulkner.com/indexmyth17.html

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 13:46
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He's guilty. While I am not normally in favor of the death penalty, since he has created such a stink all the lying on his behalf over the years, he should fry.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 13:47 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Yes, I agree that it seems as if Mumia is innocent, and he should certainly not be executed in the current muddle.

However, I do take issue with the attack on challenging jurors because of their race. Peremptory challenges mean that a juror can be dismissed for any reason - dismissal for cause is a different category. The idea is that each side gets a certain number of challenges, which they can use to get rid of whomever they want. If someone chooses to make race a criteria, that's perfectly valid, and, based upon profiling, can make logical sense. What's the problem here?

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:23
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Jailhouse confession by person serving long sentences have always been considered extremely unreliable evidence. If occuring after the coviction of the defendant, they are routinely exculded from any post conviction evidence unless corrobberated.
I have read the actual trial and some of the appeal transcripts in this case, not just the lying BS you see on web sites. I give you a free legal opinion. Anyone who says Mumia is not guilty is a fool or a liar.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:28
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Mumia's attornies have NOT ATTEMPTED to present most of the post conviction 'evidence' mentioned on web sites. There is only ONE reson for this, they know it to be false. If it was excupatory and any real probability of being true, it would have be their professional duty to attemopt to present it at the appropriate hearing and at least get a ruling on its admissibility. So if you see any claimed evidence in a news accout or web site, and cannot find it being OFFERED (whether admitted or not) in the transcript of the appropraite hearing, you know that it is false.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:34
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quote:
Peremptory challenges mean that a juror can be dismissed for any reason - dismissal for cause is a different category. The idea is that each side gets a certain number of challenges, which they can use to get rid of whomever they want. If someone chooses to make race a criteria, that's perfectly valid, and, based upon profiling, can make logical sense. What's the problem here?


Um... because the Supreme Court has said peremptory challenges based on race (and gender among other catagories) is a violation of the 14th Amendment .

Oh, but he's still guilty as Hell.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Um... because the Supreme Court has said peremptory challenges based on race (and gender among other catagories) is a violation of the 14th Amendment .

The problem is proving it if you aren't comepletely obvious about it.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:44
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True... but I was just telling David why using peremptory challenges simply for race would be a problem (if proven).

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
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Apr 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:45
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Juries should be random with no challenges at all, unless they know the accused or witnessess

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
True... but I was just telling David why using peremptory challenges simply for race would be a problem (if proven).

There is one thing that I have never been able to figure out though. Does the prohibition against using race based peremptory challenges also apply to the defense as well?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:56
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Yes... it applies to both sides. Neither side can use a peremptory challenge solely on race, gender, and certain other catagories because the Court has ruled that would be a violation of the 14th Amendment.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 19:58
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Thank you, Imran.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:25
Post  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:01
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Abu-Jamal is a classic example of how easy it is to install mass deception in left wingers looking for a cause, at least here in Europe. Many people consider him a persecuted saint based on the cleverly conducted campaign on his behalf. He actually is a celebrity in the class of Nelson Mandela with some lefties here. (No comparison on my part).

Nonetheless. Guilty. As. Hell.

I also can't begin to imagine how cruel this media circus surrounding him must be on the relatives of officer Faulkner.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:01
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You're Welcome...

That also results in its biggest critique as well. The argument goes that in voire dire for criminal cases, the defense should be able to eliminate whoever he wishes because it is a trial that, if it goes against him, will lead to a loss of liberty or even life.

Personally, I think the whole concept of peremptory challenges should be stricken.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:01
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The law says reasonable doubt not a shadow of a doubt; Mumia is a convicted cop killer and the jury's verdict needs to be carried out. Leftists concocting wild stories and what if campaigns doesn't amount to any new evidience. The jury heard the facts, they heard the aurguments, they decided which version of events they found most creditable.

It is time for Mumia to be executed. This is the law as decided by the people and their will needs to be done.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:25
Arrow  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
Abu-Jamal is a classic example of how easy it is to install mass deception in left wingers looking for a cause, at least here in Europe. Many people consider him a persecuted saint based on the cleverly conducted campaign on his behalf. He actually is a celebrity in the class of Nelson Mandela with some lefties here. (No comparison on my part).

Nonetheless. Guilty. As. Hell.

I also can't begin to imagine how cruel this media circus surrounding him must be on the relatives of officer Faulkner.


I think it's awful, so I do what I can when I run into this crap. Study this site -- it's an excellent resource for debunking what the Mumia supporters fling around:

http://www.danielfaulkner.com/index.html

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:20
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Mad Monk, I'll add the site to my links for future reference, thanks.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:27
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Of course these are the same left wingers who pushed for the aquital of people convicted of the Guilford and Birmingham IRA bombings in the 1970's.

They turned out to be correct.

I have no idea if he is guilty or innocent, but just because the family of the dead policeman think he should die doesn't mean he should.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger

I have no idea if he is guilty or innocent...


Then I suggest you try studying the facts of the case - something those lefties I was refering to clearly didn't bother to do before spraypainting half of Copenhagen with "Free Mumia".

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:25
Question  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
something those lefties I was refering to clearly didn't bother to do before spraypainting half of Copenhagen with "Free Mumia".

Is he really that big a deal in Europe? I honestly had no idea.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
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Apr 2002
time: 05:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:36
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I've never heard of him

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:39
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DinoDoc, he's big with large segments of the left, but to the most aggressive and misguided anarchists and so-called autonomous socialists he's Che Guevara incarnate.

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:41 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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Until someone comes up with a foolproof way of telling whether someone is innocent or guilty then the death penalty is just a bit too final.

It is possible to compensate (to some extent) for time wrongly in prison but a posthumous pardon isn't really very helpful.

I don't know, or much care, whether this person is guilty or not, I just don't agree with the death penalty because judicial systems aren't that infallible.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:41
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Black Nationalists groups used to run around spray painting "Free Mumia" all over buildings and sidewalks when I was in college. I'm all for free speech but vandalism is a crime and this clueless jackles should be convicted of it.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CerberusIV
I don't know, or much care, whether this person is guilty or not,

At least you are honest.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:49
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I've never seen anything remotely convincing that Mumia was innocent. I'm opposed to his execution as I am opposed to all executions, but there's little doubt that he is guilty of the crime. Considering the whole issue of his constant lying (Check out his false claim on his book to be a Peabody Award winner), I don't see any reason to believe him.

I'd just like to say that I think if there were no death penalty, Mumia wouldn't be a celebrity and the Faulkner family wouldn't be being subjected to this crap.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 29-01-2003 20:59
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That's a bit like saying if there were no banks, there'd be no bank robberies.

Well, he is under a sentence of death. Hardly anybody's fault but his own.

 
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