30-01-2003 02:05									#31
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 which means that the ones who have failed are those who tried to help, ineffectively

God forbid that Africans should carry any of the blame.

	30-01-2003 02:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 also how large are green monkies?

Not very large at all. About the size of your forearm. It'd be like trying to boink a house cat.

	30-01-2003 02:07									#33
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quote: Something to do with knowing and implementing the best defence one has against the disease: wearing a condom.

Che,

Why then is there such a big difference between North Africa and sub-saharan africa in transmission rate? Why does North Africa have such a low rate of AIDS transmission?

	30-01-2003 02:07									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Now you know how we feel about arguing with you.

Stop doing it then.

	30-01-2003 02:08									#35
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 If the Africans already used condoms they wouldnt have it so bad, thats why some people went there to help, and failed to do so

Most of the family planning campaigns are carried on by African women. I think they have an understanding of the culture. The problem isn't how the West tried to help but because too many African men think with their Cheneys and because they don't give a damn what happens to women.

	30-01-2003 02:08									#36
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So Che, are they so large they'll reap your arm out or so small its like boinking a house cat?

Make up your mind.

Somebody boinked the monkey and it is self evident!

	30-01-2003 02:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Most of the family planning campaigns are carried on by African women. I think they have an understanding of the culture. The problem isn't how the West tried to help but because too many African men think with their Cheneys and because they don't give a damn what happens to women.

men die from the virus too you know

	30-01-2003 02:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 of course caligastia. They are unable to help and have proven it.

If they are "unable" to help, how is that a failure on their part??

quote: If the Africans already used condoms they wouldnt have it so bad, thats why some people went there to help, and failed to do so

No, you got it right the first time, they were unable to help because they couldn't change the primitive, backward cultural practices of those they tried to help. Hardly a failure on their part.

	30-01-2003 02:11									#39
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Che, Why then is there such a big difference between North Africa and sub-saharan africa in transmission rate? Why does North Africa have such a low rate of AIDS transmission?

Islam, Christianity doesn't murder you for being promiscuous.

paiktis, if you'd paid attention to what I wrote you note that there are two primate sources of HIV, hence HIV I and HIV II. The first comes from the green monkey, the second from the chimpanzee. Try and be smart, I know it's difficult.

	30-01-2003 02:12									#40
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 men die from the virus too you know

Duh, really???

	30-01-2003 02:12									#41
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So a dwarf and a heavy weight lifter could have done it.
Do you deny that?!

	30-01-2003 02:12									#42
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Che's lying, paiktis.

Someone done ****ed a monkey, and that's all there is to it.

	30-01-2003 02:14									#43
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Che, yeah really. So what you said about them not caring about women doesnt hold water since they die too from the virus.

Caligastia, people went there to help and failed.
maybe they were dumb or maybe the aid was not big enough.
for whatever reason they failed.

	30-01-2003 02:15									#44
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If any good came from the aids virus its that the guy that did a monkey was likely the first to go.

Well well.

Somehow I don't feel so bad about that time back in my army days...waking up next to that truly uglo German girl the morning after...

	30-01-2003 02:16									#45
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Caligastia, people went there to help and failed. maybe they were dumb or maybe the aid was not big enough. for whatever reason they failed.

So you believe that none of the blame for the spread of AIDS should fall on africans?

	30-01-2003 02:17									#46
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Krazykitten,
of course.
The dwarf and the heavy weight lifter, we've established it.

	30-01-2003 02:17									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Che's lying, paiktis. Someone done ****ed a monkey, and that's all there is to it.

	30-01-2003 02:18									#48
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The first recorded case of AIDS was a Brit who died of the disease in the late 1950s, btw. The virus was isolated from tissue samples they kept all these years.

	30-01-2003 02:19									#49
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Che, yeah really. So what you said about them not caring about women doesnt hold water since they die too from the virus.

The gospel according to paiktis:

African men =

	30-01-2003 02:19									#50
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it was a Brit? of course.

Was he the dwarf or the heavy weight lifter?

(so we can also establish monkey)

	30-01-2003 02:20									#51
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Perverted Limeys. I always knew they were up to no good.

	30-01-2003 02:22									#52
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Patient Zero in NA (the one who really got the ball rolling) was apparently a gay male Canadian stewardess. who died in 1981 (?)

	30-01-2003 02:23									#53
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Caligastia,
I blame the african monkeis if that makes you feel better

	30-01-2003 02:24									#54
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Caligastia, I blame the african monkeis if that makes you feel better

*sigh*

	30-01-2003 02:24									#55
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But the Brit also had no business to be doing what he did.

	30-01-2003 02:26									#57
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Damn brits.

	30-01-2003 02:27									#58
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Gross oversimplification, chegitz, something you usually do not do. There are many, many cultural factors that play a role, not least the influence of Catholic and Islamic priests, plus many more specialised cases that are definately not male-exclusive. There are several patterns that need breaking for family planning to work, not lest through educational and purely economic change, some of it Gender-related, other not.

For a typical complex case, take the Chagga people of east africa, generally thought of as one of the most resourceful and industrious peoples in the region and thus widely dispersed throughout Tanzania with many in positions of power elsewhere. They are generally of a higher educational level than the rest of the Tanzanian population, are relatively gender-equal (not saying muvh, I know) and certainly earn more money than most. Yet they also have among the highest rates of AIDS in the world. Why? Well, partially it's 'cause they've had the misfortuned to be converted to christianity by catholics, but the major reason is orgies. No really. The widely dispersed and thus disease-prone young Chaggas travel home in large numbers for annual feasts that basically consist of large-scale, unprotected group sex, indulged in by men and women alike and (according to traditionally held beliefs) supposed to not cause any pregnancies. Family planning wouldn't help.

I don't think it's right to blame anyone (except those who know they carry the disease and indulge in unprotected sex anyway) for the spread of AIDS. It's a horrible scourge and everything in our power needs to be done to wipe it out, but ascertaining blame is hardly going to help the millions of people even now dying of this modern plague.

	30-01-2003 02:30									#59
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quote: It'd be like trying to boink a house cat

Then we must trust's Frogger's verdict, so if he says it's possible to do the monkey, he knows what he's talking about.

disgusting...

	30-01-2003 02:34									#60
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Think about this.. if you have cure for AIDS.. would you release it right away? Think about it.. lots of people in Africa, they're dead anyway, they won't get the medicine in years. Lots of misery and pain there. Also very large population, so would you wait the numbers to get smaller, then release the medicine, in order to realistically be able to help Africa and its problems, since there would be less mouths to feed etc etc? Seems kind of evil thinking, what do you think?
Sure, lets carry planes full of medicine for free, but what happens after that, they get better but die from lack of food?

Damn, I sound evil myself! I'd give the meds for free ASAP .