30-01-2003 02:36									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed I don't think it's right to blame anyone (except those who know they carry the disease and indulge in unprotected sex anyway) for the spread of AIDS. It's a horrible scourge and everything in our power needs to be done to wipe it out, but ascertaining blame is hardly going to help the millions of people even now dying of this modern plague.

So you place no blame on promiscuous males as long as they are unaware they carry the virus? Also, it seems rather silly not to blame anybody for the spread of AIDS when it is a disease that thrives on the irresponsible actions of individuals.

	30-01-2003 03:03									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Gross oversimplification, chegitz, something you usually do not do.

I was begining to get tired of the conversation.

	30-01-2003 03:04									#63
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So we're to blame people who're too ignorant/stupid/culturally programmed to catch the disease, and thus spread it onwards? The vast majority of people who catch the disease have acted irresponsibly, should we just pack up, go home, let nature take care of them? Honestly.

And I can't help but detect your usual "AIDS is a punishment from GOD for our WANTON SIN" undertone, Cali. Loadsa sex is a good, socially beneficial thing, and your moral system is insane and outdated.

	30-01-2003 03:22									#64
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Buck, condoms are the way to go to prevent aids?

	30-01-2003 03:25									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Buck, condoms are the way to go to prevent aids?

It's the best way, as shown by the masive decrease in HIV transmission rates among gays (the trend is beginning to reverse as more and more younger gays indulge in sexual Russian roulette ).

	30-01-2003 03:26									#66
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Dont forget the Monkey's spreading it especially their Meat..

	30-01-2003 03:30									#67
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AIDS has probably been around for centuries, but while it was just the occasional Joe Schmoe in the jungle dying, who cared?

When the Kinshasa Highway opened, prostitution started thriving right the way along it. It was an STD super-highway and it brought HIV into more promiscuous cultures, where it spread like wildfire.

	30-01-2003 03:33									#68
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Che, so my wife and I are faithful and don't engage in sex outside of marriage, and niether of us brought aids into the marriage. Should I still wear a rubber? If not, why not? (Indulge me)

	30-01-2003 03:33									#69
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's the best way, as shown by the masive decrease in HIV transmission rates among gays

Or you can just be unromantic and have your wife undergo tests before you have sex with her.

	30-01-2003 03:36									#70
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Laz, do you come down on the side of the monkey meat eaters or the monkey ****ers? How does aids get transmitted from monkeys to humans?

	30-01-2003 03:40									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Che, so my wife and I are faithful and don't engage in sex outside of marriage, and niether of us brought aids into the marriage. Should I still wear a rubber? If not, why not? (Indulge me)

Since you're in the relationship and I'm not, I'm gonna trust your judgement. How long have you two been married and how many sexual partners did you have before marriage? You are aware that the virus can lie dormant for years before becoming a problem? If you can be 100% sure that neither you nor your wife were exposed in the last ten years, I see no reason why you should have to wear a condom.

	30-01-2003 03:44									#72
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One of the reasons South Africa has a huge H.I.V. epidemic? The apartheid government's policy of separating black African males from their families if they wished to find work- human nature being what it is, men will use the services of prostitutes, or have a 'second wife' and no, condoms won't always be used (do all the heterosexual Apolytoners always use condoms, or have they always used condoms since being sexually active? Didn't think so), and inevitably you will have a virus spread from workplace to home (hundreds of kilometres away).
If anyone thinks that not wearing a condom is specific or symptomatic of 'macho' African society, then I suggest you are simply unaware of the proclivities of males the world over- in Great Britain or the United States it is not uncommon to find prostitutes who will be willing to sell their services to men who are loathe to wear protection- they say the burden of protection is on the women.

People also seem to have ignored the breakdown of society in many sub-Saharan African societies too- Zaire, Angola, Mozambique, southern Sudan, Uganda, Namibia-
many of these countries were gripped by civil wars, ravaged by terrorist groups such as Renamo, Unita, or had racial/tribal conflicts as a legacy of colonialism. A health care infrastructure hardly existed, or if it did, rested with underfinanced under resourced missionaries. Hardly a recipe for a national effort at combatting H.I.V. transmission.

	30-01-2003 03:49									#73
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Che, she is a virtuous woman, a catholic, and I got tested beforehand, and abstained for quite a while before our marriage.

Anyway, thanks for the answer. It seams that the anti christian mindset has removed from the anti aids campaign a very good method that should be taught and tried first. If one can't wait then wear a rubber, don't eat or **** monkeys.

There, everything in a nutshell, wasn't so tough. Everyones method.

	30-01-2003 04:09									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia So no matter what, Africans are not to be blamed.

You obviously don't even care about the spread of the disease, just blaming "Africans". Some Africans deserve blame, but not most of them.

In South Africa, it is now known through the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that the apartheid regime (at least) stockpiled HIV for possible weaponization. Additionally, clandestine delivery methods were developed including vaginal swabs distributed to blacks that left women more vulnerable to the disease.

	30-01-2003 04:12									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Laz, do you come down on the side of the monkey meat eaters or the monkey ****ers? How does aids get transmitted from monkeys to humans?

Do you recall the recent avian flu outbreak in Hong Kong? Or further back, the Spanish Influenza epidemic post World War I ?

Clever things, viruses and bacteria- they can learn, evolve, and swap information. It wasn't necessary for anyone in Hong Kong to engage in intercourse with a chicken to contract the new strain of flu.
There is a good deal of evidence to show that many diseases afflicting humanity have resulted from humanity's close association with animals, bovine, ovine, equine- after all, elephants can get measles, an dno one seriously suggests that people have intercourse with elephants.

http://www.apec.org/infectious/news...01/0001nb01.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/m...a-b/1337640.stm

Also- the epidemic of syphilis in the Renaissance seems to have been caused by a different, mutated strain of syphilis- different from the strain found in mediaeval Hull for instance.

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Bact330/lecturesyphilis

http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/archaeology/hullmc.htm

Ultimately, the new form of syphilis was self-defeating- it's in the disease's best interest for its host to survive for a longer period of time in order to propagate the disease.

	30-01-2003 04:14									#76
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Allegendly Aids derives from a certain species of monkies. A theory which requires a rather disgusting intercourse having taken place to have the virus passed on to the human species. That's why I prefer the "escaped from the lab" approach. It offers ease of mind.

They eat monkeys in Africa.

	30-01-2003 04:19									#77
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How the hell do you "weaponize" something with a ten year incubation period? Sounds like an urban legend to me.

	30-01-2003 04:43									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ned They eat monkeys in Africa.

Strange, the only people I've ever seen eat strange meats like Crocodile and Hippo in Africa were stupid westerners at Nairobi restaurant Carnivore.

Who exactly would "they" be? Staple meat in most of africa would be beef, goat or chicken, in five and a half years I never saw anything else served in a local restaurant (tourist hotels with practically obligatory Buffalo Steak excepted) or at the house of a local person, except one time when we visited a Big Game Hunting enthusiast and had some lovely Kudu.

	30-01-2003 04:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk How the hell do you "weaponize" something with a ten year incubation period? Sounds like an urban legend to me.

It's in the TRC Final Report; and the incubation period is usually less than ten years.

	30-01-2003 04:56									#80
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When I was in the Navy and visited the Phillipine Islands I thought they really did eat monkey meat. I inocently went up to a sidewalk vender and said, "5 monkey meats on a stick please." I learned some cuss words in their language that day.

I forgot the cuss words so don't ask.

	30-01-2003 05:34									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Strange, the only people I've ever seen eat strange meats like Crocodile and Hippo in Africa were stupid westerners at Nairobi restaurant Carnivore.

It's called bush meat, and lumber, oil, contruction workers, etc. will pay poachers to provide meat for them. This is the main reason why much of Africa's wild fauna is on the decline.

Bloom is spot on about the break down of the African societies contributing to the spread of the disease. This in itself has numerous causes from colonialism to civil war to intigration into the world market. Combined with the traditional subordination of women, it was a recipe for the spread of STDs, this one just happens to kill.

	30-01-2003 05:43									#82
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There *are* hunter/gather groups in Africa, South America, and Southeastern Asia that capture monkeys for food. I'm not saying that is necessarily how the virus jumped species to humans, just pointing out that killing monkeys for food is well-documented in some specific and limited situations.

	30-01-2003 05:44									#83
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Look, this should not be a question at all. The people in Africa are 100% responsible for the spread of AIDs. That's right, 100%. If they didn't have promiscuous, unprotected sex with multiple partners, AIDs would not be nearly the problem it is.

You can blame the Catholis for not allowing the use of condoms, but again, it comes down to personal responsibility. If your religion is causing you to engage in actions that spread a horrible disease, then just maybe your religion is wrong. This should be common sense.

Again, personal responsibility should be emphasized, not "cultural factors" - that sounds like bullshit to me.

	30-01-2003 05:47									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp AIDS has probably been around for centuries, but while it was just the occasional Joe Schmoe in the jungle dying, who cared? When the Kinshasa Highway opened, prostitution started thriving right the way along it. It was an STD super-highway and it brought HIV into more promiscuous cultures, where it spread like wildfire.

No, it appears to be a relatively new transferred virus to the human population, sometime around the middle of the past century. The virulence of the disease and the absence of any population showing inhereted resistence suggests a recent development.

	30-01-2003 05:59									#85
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Look, this should not be a question at all. The people in Africa are 100% responsible for the spread of AIDs. That's right, 100%. If they didn't have promiscuous, unprotected sex with multiple partners, AIDs would not be nearly the problem it is. You can blame the Catholis for not allowing the use of condoms, but again, it comes down to personal responsibility. If your religion is causing you to engage in actions that spread a horrible disease, then just maybe your religion is wrong. This should be common sense. Again, personal responsibility should be emphasized, not "cultural factors" - that sounds like bullshit to me.

And no one in the rest of the world has "promiscuous, unprotected sex with multiple partners"? Please...

AIDS is not the only rampant sexually-transmitted disease. Besides, how do you think AIDS was transmitted to the rest of the world? By donated blood from African hunter/gatherers? How did it spread among homosexuals and heterosexuals? Did you know that in some places heterosexual transimission is the primary cause of the spread of AIDS? And not just in Africa.

And consider that, with a disease that can take years to manifest itself symptomatically (but can be transmitted before that), how would one know they must take special precautions?

	30-01-2003 06:14									#86
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I don't think we should question why it happened, but what is being done about it.

	30-01-2003 06:16									#87
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Why?

	30-01-2003 09:54									#88
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd If they didn't have promiscuous, unprotected sex with multiple partners, AIDs would not be nearly the problem it is.

You say that as if it's a personal moral failing to have promiscuouss, unprotected sex. Today we know that it is reckless and dangerous behavior, but during the period in which the virus spread across Africa and across the world the biggest disease we had to fear was herpes. It only becomes a moral failing after you've been informed how the disease spreads, and it was already widespread across Africa and the world by that point.

	30-01-2003 10:06									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Culture is part of the answer. In many parts of Africa it's considered "unmanly" to use a condom.

In many parts of Africa they can't even afford to buy condoms. If there's even any available.

	30-01-2003 10:10									#90
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Allegendly Aids derives from a certain species of monkies. A theory which requires a rather disgusting intercourse having taken place to have the virus passed on to the human species. That's why I prefer the "escaped from the lab" approach. It offers ease of mind.

You don't need sex to transmit it. It's quite possible that someone simply ate an infected monkey that wasn't cooked, or even drank the blood.