31-01-2003 00:20									#1
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The fourth of a six-part detailed preview of Master of Orion III is now online. This six-page article, accompanied by sixteen screenshots, is written by Apolyton CS Co-Owner/Administrator Daniel Quick. It is entitled "Something To Be Said For Talk".

In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of [MoO3 arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand – both inside and outside of the gameplay itself, says Quick. What has been posted today is the first of six installments of this feature. In this edition, the talk behind the in-game action is laid out with discussion on the versatile 'Foreign Screen' menu with a return to the 'SitRep' for good measure.

On behalf of the Apolyton CS staff and administration, I would like to thank MoO3 Producer Constantine Hantzopoulos and the rest of the game's team at both Infogrames Interactive and Quicksilver Software for this opportunity.

Part 5 of this ongoing feature will be posted next Thursday barring any unforeseen circumstances. Comments on this article are welcomed in this thread.

-------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

Last edited by DanQ on 31-01-2003 at 00:37

	31-01-2003 01:32									#2
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Hithoru?

What race is this? Non playable race that is not the NO?

hhmmmmm......

	31-01-2003 01:58									#3
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I was very curious about the Orion senate and diplomacy and this preview has satisfied that curiosity.

	31-01-2003 02:14									#4
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Pretty rockin' preview this time. Much quicker pace than other articles. I could ask for more random events, though. To get three, what did you set your frequency to? That sounds fairly low to me.

	31-01-2003 02:29									#5
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Hrett:

Yes, to reaffirm what I said in my preview, the Hithoru is a non-playable race in MoO3.

Calacorm:

Harry Seldon: First, thank you for the kind words. On random events, in my article I referred to Part 2 of the preview where I mentioned what setting I had selected.

-------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	31-01-2003 02:34									#6
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quote: I referred to Part 2 of the preview where I mentioned what setting I had selected

Reading, it would appear, is fundamental. If only I could get hooked on phonics...

In case anyone cares, it was set to normal.

	31-01-2003 02:40									#7
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Thank you for this one item, my favorite part!!!

http://apolyton.net/moo3/preview/part4_screenshots.php


I think even my browser choked on that review

	31-01-2003 02:50									#8
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Ok, you must really be a glutton for punishment...after the complaints about the previous previews, you start with:

"You are reading the first sentence of the fourth installment of my ongoing preview of Master of Orion III. You are reading the second sentence... That's enough of this game play - let's turn our focus to more of MoO3's gameplay now that this trite preface out of the way. The same goes for the rhyming..."

Thats just asking for a barrage of criticism right there....

	31-01-2003 02:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DanQ Hrett: Yes, to reaffirm what I said in my preview, the Hithoru is a non-playable race in MoO3. ------------- Dan; Apolyton CS

Seems QS still has some suprises up their sleeve. I was under the impression that the only non-playable race that can have an empire (ie not a magnate civ) were the NO. Either I am confused, or this appears not to be the case.

Thanks for the preview Dan. As always, there are more hard facts in your preview than any others. Some of us appreciate that.

	31-01-2003 02:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Hrett Hithoru? What race is this? Non playable race that is not the NO?

They must be one of the magnate races...like the Rhea, Darloks, Phaigour, Bulrathi, etc....

The term "magnate races" was never mentioned in the preview....he uses non-playable races instead. They are very important and extremely beneficial.

edit: no, i think they arent a magnate or an unplayable...see below

	31-01-2003 02:57									#11
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Ah I see what your getting at, he referred to them getting negative diplomatic relations against them.

Ok, Hithoru is not a magnate race. It is not a non-playable race that gets empires, it is either the name of the leader of a race, or the name of the empire of one of the races.

There is of course the minute chance that Dan is correct, and that the BTs and QS hid this from us this entire time.

However............

I find it overwhelmingly likely that that was the name of one of the empires of one of the playable races.

	31-01-2003 03:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Alexfrog Ah I see what your getting at, he referred to them getting negative diplomatic relations against them. Ok, Hithoru is not a magnate race. It is not a non-playable race that gets empires, it is either the name of the leader of a race, or the name of the empire of one of the races. There is of course the minute chance that Dan is correct, and that the BTs and QS hid this from us this entire time. However............ I find it overwhelmingly likely that that was the name of one of the empires of one of the playable races.

I suspect this is the case -- Dan did say he only got to play once, so maybe the empire name confused him. But who knows -- Rantz and company have been known to be sneaky.

I guess we will find out soon.

	31-01-2003 03:35									#13
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I may not be a fan of Dan's writing, but those people at IGmoo, are mean. yeesh. they need to get some perspective.

	31-01-2003 03:42									#14
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bashing the apolyton preveiws has become a sport at IGMOO, I agree they go overboard.

	31-01-2003 03:57									#15
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This review was much, much better than the previous three reviews. I still think the first three were pretty bad but this one was great.

This time around the review (okay, it really is a preview but I'm going to call it a review anyway... so there) discussed some actual game mechanics and gave us a taste of how diplomacy will be played out in the game. I liked that the information regarding diplomacy was presented with direct examples from a game being played rather than just presented in a dull, abstract discussion.

I am hopeful that the next two parts of the review will be as good, if not better.

	31-01-2003 04:04									#16
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I believe the reason that people bash it so much is that MOO3 is something that we really care about and are very excited about. And its painful to see a reveiw that we believe will turn people off from it, simply by the way in which the reveiwer goes about describing the game. If I had never played a MOO game before, and this was the only thing I read aout it, I would probably come away thinking that the game was very dry. Th reveiw is very long-winded, but it is not exciting. It gives facts (which is why I read them), but it does nothing to convey WHY the game is FUN.

The reveiw is nothing but a description of the various interface screens, and various details about them. And then screenshots of those screens he just eplained.

The joy of a game does not come in interacting with the interface screens....
The After Action reports from the Beta testers have explained to us the feel of the game, the joy of it, the excitement and challenge.

It is possible to be factual while still expressing to your audience the feel of the game, what it felt like to play it. This is what a good reveiw does. it says how the game felt, while giving some facts about it....whether bad or good. Not just describe details of some interface screens, in a longwinded and unexciting manner.

	31-01-2003 04:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by viciouscycle This review was much, much better than the previous three reviews. I still think the first three were pretty bad but this one was great. ...discussed some actual game mechanics and gave us a taste of how diplomacy will be played out in the game.

I agree this one had some good points. I liked some of the diplomacy descriptions, especially when he talked about how the Trilarians came whining for a researhc treaty, while the Tachidi would have nothing to do with him.

I think the first one was best, and it then went downhill. I think this one was an improvement from #3....

I think each had some good game info, but I wish it would give some indication of how it feels when playing the game, not just describe the various windows.

	31-01-2003 04:09									#18
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I have to admit I was expecting this preview to be as bad as the last 3, but I was surprised. It was actualy fun and entertaining to read. The english is still pretty bad, and there are still a few places where Dan spends an entire paragraph saying what could be said in a sentence (or even not saying anything at all), but in general the writing is much better. I think part of the key is that he actualy spent some time disccusing his experiences with the game. Part of the problem with previous previews may also have been an artificial need to fill up 6 pages when he only really had one or two pages worth of information. This time he at least gives us 5 pages worth of info.

	31-01-2003 04:19									#19
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ok, here s my take, having just reread it:

page 1, first 2 paragraphs: he really needs o work on his intros, especially that first paragraph:

second half of page 1 and page 2: great, gives us a good idea of how the diplomacy feels...

page 3: longwinded description of bills/laws...just needs to be shortened up

page 4: longwinded description of specific laws that happened in his game...just needs to be shortened up.

page 5: again, longwinded description of random events...just needs to be more concise.

page 6: excerpts from the appendices, good info.

overall: not too bad, needs to be more consice in pages 3-5, needs to completely change the first two paragraphs. I liked the other parts.


Much better than part 3, IMO, and about the same as I felt for 1&2, i.e. some good info, some good sections, generally too wordy and needs to have more editing.

	31-01-2003 04:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DanQ Yes, to reaffirm what I said in my preview, the Hithoru is a non-playable race in MoO3.

Ok, I now have confirmation from the Beta testers that this is BS. The hithoru was obviously the name of an empire.

	31-01-2003 05:01									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Alexfrog Ok, I now have confirmation from the Beta testers that this is BS. The hithoru was obviously the name of an empire.

@Alexfrog: Could you please share this information?

@DanQ: Any comment on this issue?

	31-01-2003 05:11									#22
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posted by Sevilla (a beta tester, of which I am 100% sure she is a BT), in relation to Dan's comment that the "Hithoru" are a non playable race, and yet are in diplomacy.

"The only unplayable races are the magnate civs and the NOs.
I really can't guess what he is talking about."


posted by kvlosser, (I believe another BT, but not 100% about that one):

"As far as I can tell, this "race' was a mistake on Dan's part.
Most of the screenshots and references deal with Empire names rather than race name. He mentions having no contact with the Sakkra, but there are in the Foreign Office screenshot. Couple that with the Hithrou being isolated by the Senate...
I think that 'Hithrou' is the name of this Sakkra Empire."


I think its clear that they arent a race.


More interesting developments are coming....one ofthe BTs just said that the figure to the right of the humans in the Orion Senate screenshot was an Elerian, and we all figured they couldnt be in the senate as they are a magnate race....more to come on that one....

	31-01-2003 05:44									#23
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We are thinking that screenshot may be from the intro, where the Elerians and other races speak out against the NOs....any comments from Dan??

	31-01-2003 05:48									#24
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quote: More interesting developments are coming....one ofthe BTs just said that the figure to the right of the humans in the Orion Senate screenshot was an Elerian, and we all figured they couldnt be in the senate as they are a magnate race....more to come on that one....

Yes, it does look like an Elerian, but its just a cinematic-type screenshot, so I dont see any reason why the couldnt represent them there. If you look above the Grendarl, youll see what looks darn close to a Mrrshan, and theyre not playable, either.....

	31-01-2003 05:58									#25
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yes exactly, we think its from the intro, and thus the elerians, mrrshan, etc...

	31-01-2003 06:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by viciouscycle This review was much, much better than the previous three reviews. I still think the first three were pretty bad but this one was great.

Great compared to the other 3 parts anyway. Not exactly high praise I know but at least he's improving. Some parts still made little sense but this time round there were a good few interesting bits as well.

	31-01-2003 06:24									#27
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I was wondering, can you, as the player, propose bills to the Orion Senate? Or can you only vote on AI proposed bills?

thanks

	31-01-2003 06:38									#28
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Thanks for the preview. I liked the preview but then again I didn't mind the previous ones. I personally like the exacting detail. I've read enough 2 page previews of MOO3 by now and a nice 24 pager (in total) is nice.

My question is this, can you play a game without having the New Orions around babysitting? Can a game just be you and some standard civs? I don't think so, but I would like to have that option. Anyway, if you are at liberty to answer, what is their purpose in the game from a game rule/strategy perspective? Why does MOO3 have an alien race that is such a super power (even if it is an apathetic one) when other games do not?

	31-01-2003 06:44									#29
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the NOs are part of the story line, its part of the desire to add "eXperience" as the fifth X, whatever that means...

They are superpowerful, but they arent competingwith the others...the sit back and are aloof and stay in their one system, being superpowerful. In a way, the kindof enforce the laws the senate passes, because if you ignore the laws (say, use biological weapons after a law prohibits it) you might anger the Os and have them destroy you.

I think it adds an interesting new element to the game.

They must be in the game....

I think they really did a good job creating an in depth, interesting storyline for this one

	31-01-2003 06:54									#30
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Ok, I get it. Because the senate can make laws for member nations to abide by in a UN like fashion there needs to be someone with their with the stones and equipment to enforce those laws. But they are apathetic because if they competed with the other civs at the outset then they would crush you before you double clicked on the desktop icon to even start the game. Interesting.

My concern, however, is if the NO vote (and this preview indicates they do) then it seems like passing your bill is just a matter of convincing the NO to support it 'stead of rallying support of multiple empires and flexing your own political muscle. From the numbers listed it seems like it would take quite some time for anyone other then the NO's vote to matter. That might kinda stink.