31-01-2003 04:37									#1
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quote: God loves us all equally, and we are equally important to him, but that does not make us physically or mentally equal. Unequal races etc is all part of God's plan. It teaches us to love others even if they are not on the same level as us.

-Caligastia

At the request of Japher, this is a threadsplit from the discussion regarding the benefits of spirituality.

Are there concrete, definable differences between the races?

I will argue no. People will have varying abilities, but across races there are no consistent differences.

(Poorly worded, but I think it will come out what I mean anyways.)

	31-01-2003 04:40									#2
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what about swimming?

black peoples don't swim as well as others , they tend to sink.

and white man can't jump

	31-01-2003 04:47									#3
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We can phentypically differentiate people, by skin colour, or so, but it is only for convenience. There are no boundries defined by any standard.

I will elaborate my point, after some sleep.

	31-01-2003 04:50									#4
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It is ludicrous to suggest that skin tone and facial topography can have any biological effect on intelligence and stamina.

Edit: Yes, there ARE sociological effects.

Last edited by Sandman on 31-01-2003 at 06:01

	31-01-2003 04:59									#5
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You know your going to regret this... Never get Cali going on this it will never stop.

quote: Are there concrete, definable differences between the races?

nothing is concrete. Yet, what is, is that they are different in that they are a different race.

quote: I will argue no. People will have varying abilities, but across races there are no consistent differences.

That is not entirly true. Consistent differences? Africans are more prone to get sickle-cell anemia, Asians are more prone to having eye problems, White people are at a higher risk of generating skin cancern.

We may have all began from the same gene pool, but years of evolution have given noticable and definable differences based on climate, needs, and executions for obtaining these needs. As a result races are different, do you not notice that asians are generally shorter than the rest of the races, and africans are generally taller and have a denser muscular structure than other races?

These things are readily obvious, and lead for gross generalizations, but if you can't deduce from logical observations, then what do you deduce this from?

	31-01-2003 05:00									#6
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All people pretty much suck equally.

	31-01-2003 05:06									#7
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quote: Consistent differences? Africans are more prone to get sickle-cell anemia

The problem with talking about an "African" race is that there's more genetic diversity AMONG black Africans of different ethnic groups than between, say, whites and asians.

	31-01-2003 05:08									#8
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Elves are definitely different though.

	31-01-2003 05:09									#9
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quote: It is ludicrous to suggest that skin tone and facial topography can have any biological effect on intelligence and stamina.

I agree that skin tone and facial topography would have nothing to do with intelligence. What has to do with intelligence, or schooling, is that person's desire to become educated and to persue a higher intelligence. In our world today, wether we like it or not, races of certain types tend to lump themselves together. Thus, there is a general racism by all, which does not permit itself well to overcoming challenges that may hinder one's desire to learn.

Ergo, races, in general, do very in intelligence. Not because they are inherently dumber or smart, but because the societies they live in promote different aspects of being.

	31-01-2003 05:25									#10
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That's why I specified biological effects, Japher.

	31-01-2003 05:27									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Japher That is not entirly true. Consistent differences? Africans are more prone to get sickle-cell anemia,

And more people of Mediterranean origin get thalassaemia- but there isn't a Mediterranean 'race'.

Some Jews get Tay Sachs- some don't.

'Recessive diseases such as Tay-Sachs often occur more frequently, though not exclusively, in a defined population. A person's chances of being a TSD carrier are significantly higher if he or she is of eastern European (Ashkenazi) Jewish descent. Approximately one in every 27 Jews in the United States is a carrier of the TSD gene. There is also a noticeable incidence of TSD in non-Jewish French Canadians living near the St. Lawrence River and in the Cajun community of Louisiana. By contrast, the carrier rate in the general population as well as in Jews of Sephardic origin is about one in 250.'

Using inherited disease as a 'race' marker won't work.

As for Caligastia's god and race nonsense- it isn't worth the thought.

	31-01-2003 05:31									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko The problem with talking about an "African" race is that there's more genetic diversity AMONG black Africans of different ethnic groups than between, say, whites and asians.

Which would mean that there are multiple Black races.

Now, how do you tell them apart using the standard method of determining race, i.e., looking at a person and being an ignorant muther******?

There is only one race, the human race. All else is BS.

	31-01-2003 05:36									#13
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[obvious joke]Of course there are differences. The 100m sprint is hugely different to a 26 mile marathon.[/obvious joke]

	31-01-2003 05:47									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman It is ludicrous to suggest that skin tone and facial topography can have any biological effect on intelligence and stamina.

True. But place of origin and economic status definitely have effects on some aspects of people, and both place of origin and economic/social status are affected by race. (I'm talking about slavery and genocide affecting different races' economic status - artificial man-created differences, not innate ones.)

All in all, discrepancies in different races are all man-made or having to do with place of origin.

edited to add some stuff I meant to say but forgot to.

	31-01-2003 05:53									#15
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Part of the problem is the definition of race.

Diseases such as thalassema affect certain parts of a race, but they do not affect the whole.

The same with sickle-cell anemia. You can be a black person without sickle-cell anemia, and you can have sickle-cell without being black.

IIRC sickle cell anemia is a hereditary response to environmental exposure to malaria. Will sickle-cell vanish when malaria is eradicated?

	31-01-2003 05:54									#16
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Malaria will never be eradicated.

	31-01-2003 05:59									#17
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That's why I specified biological effects, Jaguar Warrior.

	31-01-2003 06:00									#18
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Genetically and physically I don't think there are differences between the races. However there can be cultural differences.

	31-01-2003 06:36									#19
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My answer on this one will be a definant yes.

The first thing that jumps to mind is the socialogical differences but thats not whats being asked. Then i thought deeper. Where do those come from?

It IS about biological differences in the long run because (not always but majority of the time) races will stick together. These eventually mold your mind against others and to think differently and act differently. So those BIOLOGICAL differences are what is the cause of the SOCIALOGICAL differences.

	31-01-2003 06:40									#20
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Everyone is equal.













Except the French.

	31-01-2003 06:47									#21
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quote: It IS about biological differences in the long run because (not always but majority of the time) races will stick together. These eventually mold your mind against others and to think differently and act differently. So those BIOLOGICAL differences are what is the cause of the SOCIALOGICAL differences.

Two points:

1. Races do not stick together, even a majority of the time. Bloodshed is just as common within races.

2. Biological and sociological differences may have a common cause: the environment.

	31-01-2003 06:52									#22
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quote: It IS about biological differences in the long run because (not always but majority of the time) races will stick together. These eventually mold your mind against others and to think differently and act differently. So those BIOLOGICAL differences are what is the cause of the SOCIALOGICAL differences.

Thank You.

Thus, racial profiling is a logical manner to live ones life, or as you may say being racist. Yet, I say it is prejudice, and to that I admit whole heartedly.

quote: Genetically and physically I don't think there are differences between the races. However there can be cultural differences.

That is an obvious statement, and is really not contriversial... You want contriversy you have to say things like:

"What a silly response. There are defintly physical and genetic differences between races..."

See how that works, and by the way, I mean what I just put in quotes... prove me wrong, just don't use opinion, use observations, and even wide generalizations if you want... I did.

quote: That's why I specified biological effects, Japher.

Sorry about that Sandman, I stand corrected. Yes, people with similar facial features and skin tone can be of different races.

	31-01-2003 06:57									#23
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quote: 1. Races do not stick together, even a majority of the time. Bloodshed is just as common within races. 2. Biological and sociological differences may have a common cause: the environment.

to No.1 - BS, they do stick together a majority of the time, and yes I agree with the second sentence.

to No.2 - Hmmmm. You are starting to get my point. Should we, once again, look into the evolution of races?

Of course the environment is responsible for sociological and biological differences... That is what constitutes a race.

	31-01-2003 07:20									#24
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The genetic differences between 'races' how ever defined, are limited to climate/environmental niche adpations.

	31-01-2003 07:30									#25
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quote: Sorry about that Sandman, I stand corrected. Yes, people with similar facial features and skin tone can be of different races.

That's not what I meant. I am saying, biologically (not sociologically), skin tone cannot be related to intelligence any more than the width of the foot is related to eyesight.

quote: to No.1 - BS, they do stick together a majority of the time, and yes I agree with the second sentence.

I disagree. There is at least as much conflict within races as between races. The constant conflict in Europe from the fall of Rome to the present day is almost entirely between 'whites', China has known many dreadful civil wars and the Indian subcontinent is split between Hinduism and Islam.

	31-01-2003 07:37									#26
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They're not equal, but are supposed to be treated equally under most western legal systems... which is the main thing.

	31-01-2003 07:52									#27
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Appearantly we all descended from the same woman.

I don't know much about this subject. I used to think that children were born loving everyone regardless of race and you had to teach them to be racist. I was shocked to hear my 4 year old tell me the other day that he didn't like my neighbor because he's black. He definitely didn't learn this from around the house. At least I'm almost certain. Certainly not from me anyway.

	31-01-2003 08:30									#28
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Intellectually I saw we're all equal.

Physically I think there are some slight differences as many of how have noted, athletically and with respect to diseases and conditions. Still, I think they are not really significant.

	31-01-2003 09:23									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I will elaborate my point, after some sleep.

How dare you shirk any debate on Apolyton with the flimsy of maintaining your health!?


Anyway, welcome to Cal's fetish topic -- AGAIN.


Poverty and malnourishment is what affect's people's intelligence level. Blacks have historically been more impoverished and more malnourished in all parts of the world. As a result, many of them have suffered from stunted intellectual growth and development.

There are always cases however, where blacks have even overcomed these obstacles and become highly successful.

In any case, race is not a factor -- poverty and malnourishment are the factors in intelligence levels.

	31-01-2003 09:27									#30
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara All people pretty much suck equally.

Two thumbs up for that Che!
Where's Albert Speer? I'm still waiting to hear that the white race is superior to all.