31-01-2003 09:32									#31
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Speer's in Mingapulco.

We'll have to do without him.

	31-01-2003 09:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Which would mean that there are multiple Black races. Now, how do you tell them apart using the standard method of determining race, i.e., looking at a person and being an ignorant muther******? There is only one race, the human race. All else is BS.

Actually it means that they are an older stock. Currently we believe that all non-Africans originate from a single group of humans that left Africa for the Arabian peninsula about 80,000 years ago. The African stock that they left behind is at least twice as old.

	31-01-2003 09:47									#33
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There aren't any differentials in the selection pressure on intelligence, etc. of humans between different environments, hence there are no disparities between the mental capacities of different human populations. Studies that assert otherwise have faulty statistical techniques backing them up.

Last edited by Ramo on 31-01-2003 at 09:56

	31-01-2003 09:48									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara All people pretty much suck equally.

Disparing of obtaining the true socialist state are we?

	31-01-2003 09:51									#35
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The odds against this alleged "equality" are immense. What criterion would you like to use? Intelligence? Physical strength? Cro-Magnon had superior intelligence, Neandertal had superior strength - Cro-Magnon survived, Neandertal didn't.

	31-01-2003 09:56									#36
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Why are you people even bothering with this silly question? It's like asking "Are all humans equal?" No; of course not... every human being on this planet is unique and different. And so you're asking if collections of unique individuals differentiated mainly by melanin levels in the skin are equal? :sigh:


Imagine you have 6 billion different shaped, sized, and colored polygons. Now seperate those polygons according to their
color and ask if each of the groups is equal... MADNESS I TELL YOU!

carry on if you must

	31-01-2003 10:35									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Which would mean that there are multiple Black races. Now, how do you tell them apart using the standard method of determining race, i.e., looking at a person and being an ignorant muther******? There is only one race, the human race. All else is BS.

Believe it or not, we share something like 99.78% genetic similarity. Difference of a white man and a black man is alot closer than compared to two gorilla neighboring populations. So based on genetic similarity, we could technically say there isnt enough difference to consider human beings to be more than one race. Although that insignificant percentage of difference results in enough difference we see in human 'races' to label them each as seperate category.

Race is a first step to a species being divided into two or more different species. Each race represents the same species with enough difference in genetic pool to take the step into becoming its own species, if the interbreeding does not occur. Human 'race' is nowhere close to dividing into seperate species.

	31-01-2003 10:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Part of the problem is the definition of race. IIRC sickle cell anemia is a hereditary response to environmental exposure to malaria. Will sickle-cell vanish when malaria is eradicated?

Sickle cell anemia has to do with deformation of red blood cells. It has nothign to do with malaria and is not a response to the diseas. Organism cannot choose conciously to mutate on its own!Its a mutation that occured that has nothing to do with malaria. Its just that malaria cant infect red blood cells when red blood cells are deformed, which is why sickle celled anemics have the immunity.

Reasons why you see higher population of african americans having sickle cell anemia is because while the mutation by nature is harmful (deformed red blood ceel isnt beneficial... ask any sickle cell anemics), the enviornment where these people are, it is far better to be stricken with sickle cell anemia than be caught with malaria. Therefore natural selection favors population with sickle cell anemics than population with normal red blood cells.

If malaria didnt exist, in nature, it would be far more advantageous not to have sickle celled genetic trait, therefore nature promotes other population to grow, which is why you do not see many people with such genetic trait elsewhere.

In developed areas of human civilization, malaria is no longer the factor for natural selection, therefore such advantage disappears. Still, in civilized areas, you wont see someone with sickle celled traits not able to pass on his genes simply because he has this genetic mutation. I have never seen ones genetic trait for sickle cell being a factor for sexual selection. So no, sickled cell anemia wont disappear.

	31-01-2003 11:01									#39
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Thanks Calc for wording that better. I know organisms cannot choose to mutate.

	31-01-2003 11:09									#40
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Thanks to BIO253 genetics class... The professor who lectured half in german was a crazy maniac with cruel sense of humor, but I did also manage to learn that we share approximately 50% genetic similarity with a banana. And thats about all I remember from that class. I wanna keep it that way.

	31-01-2003 13:47									#41
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I'm not touching this issue

So I'll just say yes, all races are equal in potential.

	31-01-2003 14:02									#42
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What all races? There is only one race of humans.

The concept of different races is a fling of the past now.

	31-01-2003 19:11									#43
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I'm just wondering about the Sino-Dontal trait that some people of Asian descent and some (older) Native Americans have.

Do other people get this ever? I first heard of it last semester in my Anthro class, prior to that I never knew that people could have front teeth that are "shovel-shaped". So, if anyone can get this, I would guess it wouldn't be a difference, but if people from other areas can't get this, then maybe there are some differences.

BTW, the way I understand genetics, your genes determine a range of possibilities that you can achieve - be it height, weight, intelligence - and that it is environment that determines what people end up being. Meaning everyone has a certain ceiling on their abilities, and a cellar - they won't exceed these ranges.

	31-01-2003 19:14									#44
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Are all races equal?

In some ways, yes, in other ways, no. God loves everyone equally no matter what race they belong to, and that's all that really matters. Does it really matter if the temporary human body of different races are different? Not to me. I try to treat everyone with respect and dignity no matter what race they are from, and so should everyone else. I truly believe all humans on this planet to be literally my brothers and sisters.

If I convinced you beyond a shadow of a doubt that different races have different physical and mental attributes, would it really change the way you treat others? I'm willing to bet that with most people here it wouldn't, just as with any reasonable person it wouldn't. I think we can all agree that it's ridiculous to hate someone because of the way they are born, or make assumptions about anyone because of the race they were born into.

	31-01-2003 19:27									#45
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Thank you your majesty, for not hating inferior races.


" It's not their fault they were born stupid" -Caligastia.

	31-01-2003 19:41									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko The problem with talking about an "African" race is that there's more genetic diversity AMONG black Africans of different ethnic groups than between, say, whites and asians.

There are differences within all races.
Asians are certainly different. Not all whites are the same.

Physically there are differences in races; internally we all have basic wants and needs that make us pretty much the same.

	31-01-2003 19:55									#47
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It's quite simple, really. You take the Big-Bootied black mama and the Big-Legged black papa, let Big Mama Nature take it's course , and .....voila! Instant athlete!

	31-01-2003 20:55									#48
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo The concept of different races is a fling of the past now.

Time to come out of your cocoon -- race is very much an issue in today's society, unfortunately.


I still say that race is never a factor in people's intelligence levels. Poverty and malnutrition, however, definitely affect intellectual development. But even those factors can be overcome by individuals.

	31-01-2003 21:06									#49
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Personnally, I always thought the 10k race was much superior to the 100m dash. Oh... You're not talking about that kind of race... well... ahh... never mind then.

	01-02-2003 04:37									#50
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Race is an excuse for people who feel inferior or have a chip on their shoulder to look down on someone who is of a different appearance, or born elsewhere.

Look at the shining examples of the 'Aryan' master race in the Twentieth century- the stunning physical and intellectual sex gods Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler, and Heinrich Himmler. If there was ever a real standard for the Aryan Ubermensch, then those three never came near it. Same goes for the sewer dwelling Julius Streicher and plenty of the other self-proclaimed members of the 'master race'.

Which race in Pushkin's ancestry gave him the ability to create stunning literature? The Slav or the African? Maybe a whipser of Nordic, or possibly some stray Golden Horde D.N.A.? Which 'race' made Picasso an artist- a bit of Celt, or Visigoth, possibly a fragment of Latin, or Carthaginian, perhaps a smidgeon of Moor?

The stupidity of people banging on about separate 'races' without bothering to define what race is (or admitting it is an artificial human construction) is self-evident.

	01-02-2003 05:18									#51
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara All people pretty much suck equally.

Though Cali tends to suck more than others.

	01-02-2003 05:43									#52
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I think perhaps "tribe" is the word more closely associated with what you're examining. As has already been pointed out, with the extinction of the Neanderthal, there ceased to be more than one race of intelligent, tool making, tool using hominids on this planet.

Of course the word "tribe" carries with it a primitive ambience, and is generally frowned on by the cultural elite. They don't want to be in a tribe, they want their own race.

Truth hurts, and we, as a RACE, ain't all that and a bag of chips.

-=Vel=-

	01-02-2003 06:25									#53
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Of course there are differences between races.

I do not want to see on the scientific research on this matter, because after World War Two the Antropological science is not advancing because of liberal, and antifascist ideology, and science tend to be very changing.

I see the history, and see that White people, and specially European people created the best, expansionist civilization. They had average enviroment position among other civs/races and they managed to develop the best civilization.

We know that blacks are better sprinters, and there are lot differences in physicall things, so why we can not say that there is not difference in other psychical, and intelligence matters???? Only because Hitler masacred Jews????

Think people, you are against racial differences because Hitler was a murderer, and you do not want this to happen again... But it is only because of that, but the reality is different, and we are not equal.

	01-02-2003 06:40									#54
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Of course you don't want to see scientific evidence on the question posed, Luk....because it's not what you want to hear. The evidence provided stands counter to what you believe.

But that doesn't invalidate it.

-=Vel=-

	01-02-2003 07:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Luk I see the history, and see that White people, and specially European people created the best, expansionist civilization. They had average enviroment position among other civs/races and they managed to develop the best civilization.

Read Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs, and Steel', and repeat that nonsense after you read it... You are exactly and utterly incorrect..

	01-02-2003 07:18									#56
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Let's make a clear distinction between race and species, here. There is only one species of human on the planet, and we are essentially all the same physically, genetically, and in potential. Race is a less distinct concept, based more on superficial local adaptations to climate.

The very same people who left Africa as dark-skinned and black-haired people (for adaptive physical reasons) gradually became lighter-skinned lighter-haired people for equally adaptive physical reasons. And those people are exactly the same species of Homo sapiens that left Africa to spread into Asia and the Americas.

Anyone who continues to claim that the "races" are different physically (and physically includes the brain) are beneath contempt.

But if you want to argue that some *cultural* developments and more advantageous or disadventageous in this particular time, I'm in full agreement. Culture is not inherent in the physical human and it is astonishingly changeable.

"Racial" differences are the fool's defense. But cultural differences are real. I can discuss *that*.

	01-02-2003 07:20									#57
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....and that puts us into the discussion of tribalism....

-=Vel=-

	01-02-2003 07:31									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Luk Of course there are differences between races. I do not want to see on the scientific research on this matter, because after World War Two the Antropological science is not advancing because of liberal, and antifascist ideology, and science tend to be very changing. I see the history, and see that White people, and specially European people created the best, expansionist civilization. They had average enviroment position among other civs/races and they managed to develop the best civilization. We know that blacks are better sprinters, and there are lot differences in physicall things, so why we can not say that there is not difference in other psychical, and intelligence matters???? Only because Hitler masacred Jews???? Think people, you are against racial differences because Hitler was a murderer, and you do not want this to happen again... But it is only because of that, but the reality is different, and we are not equal.

I am astonished and both the breadth and depth of your ignorance of the humnan species. 50 years ago, you would have used the fact that most American professional athletes were white as proof of superiority. Today, you would use the relative preponderance of black athletes as proof of physical differences.

What part of the sociology of "opportunities for economic advancement" did you fail to understand?

Minorities have always used well-defined patterns to escape their cultural disadvantages. Minorities have passed through sports (Germans, Italians, Irish) on their way to general social acceptance. They have passed through ethnically-organized politics, they have passed through the police and fire departments on their way to general acceptance.

And you are against blacks doing the same thing? In 2100, your way of thinking is going to be considered as quaint and simplistic as shunning the Irish seems to us now.

Avaunt, Demon...

	01-02-2003 15:57									#59
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I belive in science, but this science which continue the pre-war development... Not in this science which is wrote because of political need.

I can not agree with those people who try very hard, despite the fact that it is very not logical, find a way to prove that races are equal. Almost all ideas we can prove, and if you think even about idea that sun is not shining, and start to think how to prove it, you will prove it

Over 50 years ago, the antropology, science about race was a normal type of science, almost all of independant antropological centers which was not under fascist influence accepted the fact, that races are not equal, and not equal not only in colour of the skin, but psychics, and physics. But after WWII this science stopped...

Cavebear - of course you can not say what I would say 50 years ago. Even in XIX century Gobineu wrote that Blacks people are more sensitive, and better in some physical things then whites. You know that Gobineu was a precursor of rascism.

But you will not cheat the history. Actecs, Mayans, Asians, Indians, some people in Africa, Middle East - all this civilizations had equal, or even better enviroment then Whites. But only we created the expansionist culture, and spread all over the world. It is history, history is hard to lie... But of course today many scientist try to explain that history is wrong, because they try to feat their ideology to history

We are different... It is matter of our conscience if we say that our differency is better or worser then others races (for example we are more inteligent then Blacks, more creatfull, and expansionist from Asians, but is this means we are not equal???? They are better from us in other things, Blacks in sports, Asians in mathematics, engineering etc.)

	01-02-2003 16:11									#60
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All races ARE equal, it's just that some are more equal then others.