02-02-2003 01:38									#31
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I think Eli has said something that differs from what he wanted to say.

	02-02-2003 01:40									#32
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Eli seemed pretty clear in his statement. If he wishes to retract it that is his call.

	02-02-2003 01:41									#33
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I can't find any news stories (internet search) that mention Iraqi celebrations...

Let's wait for confirmations before leaping to conclusions.

	02-02-2003 01:42									#34
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Shi, I saw it on TV myself. It was a document about 9/11, and focused on tragedy. I'm sorry, I can't give you any sources.

And sure, I'll give you he was a bit drunk . And even I could have said something like that if I was drinking, even more strong, fighting words. So that really doesn't count, I was just trying to somehow tell that there must be at least some Americans too, who enjoyed innocent deaths. I'm not saying they throwed huge street parties with live music, just that there are those people. I am also sure there are some people in my country too that enjoyed it. Screwed up people. But if you want source for substancial group street partying, I can't give you that, I haven't heard of those, and I think those didn't happen. I don't know what I'm talking anymore, kind of lost my mind already. I'm not defending Palestinian extremists here, that's for sure. Just I don't see the point of getting angry about some extremists partying.. you can't always choose your emotions and that kind of stuff triggers people, but we should all remember that these people are stupid and don't have respect for human lives. This is 'Newsflash!' too like you put it.

	02-02-2003 01:45									#35
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quote: Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance Sat February 1, 2003 03:23 PM ET BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Immediate popular reaction in Baghdad on Saturday to the loss of the U.S. space shuttle Columbia and its seven-member crew -- including the first Israeli in space -- was that it was God's retribution. "We are happy that it broke up," government employee Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi said. "God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us," he said. Iraqis are braced for a possible U.S.-led war to rid their country of any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons it may possess. Iraq denies it has such weapons. Car mechanic Mohammed Jaber al-Tamini noted Israeli air force Colonel Ilan Ramon was among the dead when the shuttle broke up over the southwestern United States 16 minutes before its scheduled landing. The 48-year-old Israeli astronaut was a fighter pilot in the Israeli air force. He was the youngest pilot in a team that bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor in 1981. Israel said the reactor was intended to develop nuclear weapons. "Israel launched an aggression on us when it raided our nuclear reactor without any reason, now time has come and God has retaliated to their aggression," Tamini said. There were no such signs of jubilation over the shuttle disaster in any of the Palestinian territories. The official response from the Palestinians was one of condolence. "President (Yasser) Arafat and the Palestinian Authority offer their condolences to the six American families and the Israeli family who lost their loved ones in the catastrophe," Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestinian official and spokesman, told Reuters. Erekat said Arafat had sent President Bush a message of condolences over the loss of the NASA space agency's shuttle. The United States, Israel's closest ally, is the chief Middle East peace broker.

	02-02-2003 01:45									#36
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These people get pleasure from you getting angry, so why give that pleasure? Just think that these people are human waste, and get angry to people who are normal.
For me to get angry, I have to care about what some people think and do. If people who I don't have any respect, or care what they do because they mean nothing to me.. why bother getting angry because of these people, that's beyond me.

	02-02-2003 01:48									#37
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Man, the Iraqi government is dumb. They never pass up an opportunity to make themselves look evil when they could make themselves look better. My comment about being evil, sick bastards trying to score political points applies to them as well.

	02-02-2003 01:52									#38
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Smooth move, Saddam.

	02-02-2003 01:56									#39
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Man Iraq is DUMB! These are the days when the US presents their evidence and EU thinks what their position will be. That is if evidence is convincing, it might be big coalition, if not.. then not so big coalition. Iraq wants to play cool now, and win those hearts and NOT say stupid things like these. This won't win any hearts where it counts, and that is possible coming coalition.

	02-02-2003 01:56									#40
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That article has to be a lie, Siro. The Iraqi government would never say such things; they are secular, after all.

	02-02-2003 01:56									#41
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I don't blame the Iraqi government for that response. If I were living in Iraq, I'd probably feel the same way. But I agree that it just shows they're classless pieces of sh1t. I sure hope it turns out Saddam has been bad. But again, we shouldn't attack without proof if at all.

	02-02-2003 01:56									#42
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Che, get over your high horse.

Even though Arafat has officialy expressed his condolences, you and I know that he probably had a tost celebrating this occassion, when the two nations he its trying to trick are suffering.

	02-02-2003 02:46									#43
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Chegitz -- I'm just stating that based on past patterns of behavior of Palestinian extremists -- not all Palestinians -- that today is probably another party for such evil extremists.

As for Iraqi extremists -- I'm not surprised they're twisting this tragedy around, to endorse it as some kind of anti-Western message from God.

	02-02-2003 03:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten That article has to be a lie, Siro. The Iraqi government would never say such things; they are secular, after all.

No, they're not so secular as you might think. They're not Wahabit islamic fundamentalist nutcases (and thus I don't buy the Al Qaeda link), but they're definitely defining their nation as "islamic", just like all Arab nations. The notion of God in there fits the picture perfectly.

	02-02-2003 03:12									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Che, get over your high horse. Even though Arafat has officialy expressed his condolences, you and I know that he probably had a tost celebrating this occassion, when the two nations he its trying to trick are suffering.

Neither you nor I know anything of the sort.

	02-02-2003 03:16									#46
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And Pekka: I doubt that the reason why France and Germany or the vast majority of supporters of the peace movement or even muslims who oppose the war do it because Saddam has won their hearts. I couldn't care less for theat scumbag who once dumped tons of nerve gas on his own population. There's other reasons to oppose the attack without having to like Saddam (but it doesn't belong in this thread).

	02-02-2003 04:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Chegitz -- I'm just stating that based on past patterns of behavior of Palestinian extremists -- not all Palestinians -- that today is probably another party for such evil extremists. As for Iraqi extremists -- I'm not surprised they're twisting this tragedy around, to endorse it as some kind of anti-Western message from God.

Considering our discussions over gay rights issues, I'm pretty surprised to see you justifying things based on "past patterns of behavior." You're being hypocritical.

	02-02-2003 04:17									#48
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So at this point, there is 0 evidence of any public sentiment of happiness for the loss of Columbia in the Occupied territories (regardless of Siro "knowing" there must be some private affairs...) while the government of Iraq stated it was an Omen by God against the US.

Anyone really at all surprised by Iraq's move? We are going to invade and overthrow this government in a few weeks: why in Hell would they send us condolences? (also given the History of the Israeli astronaut being part of the Osirik raid of '81). Cause of some feeling of Human solidarity? PLEASE................

	02-02-2003 04:55									#49
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quote: Neither you nor I know anything of the sort.

quote: regardless of Siro "knowing" there must be some private affairs...

oh come on.

Don't expect me to take you seriously when you ask me to presume that the leaders of Palestinian resistance organizations, Hamas, Jihad and Fatah, did not drink to the occassion.

	02-02-2003 05:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten That article has to be a lie, Siro. The Iraqi government would never say such things; they are secular, after all.

Argue the point with Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BJKKZDZVFUFBACRBAELCFEY?type=worldNews&storyID=2152926

	02-02-2003 06:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Considering our discussions over gay rights issues, I'm pretty surprised to see you justifying things based on "past patterns of behavior." You're being hypocritical.

I apologize for getting angry when Palestinian extremists and Iraqi extremists celebrate over human tragedies.

I don't see how I'm being hypocritical -- Palestinian extremists were overjoyed with the 9/11 disaster.

And, with gay rights issues in the past, I have often talked about how extreme fundamentalists use God and religion as weapons of hate -- well, Palestinian extremists are doing the same thing towards Americans and Israelies.

	02-02-2003 06:33									#52
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Wernazuma III, Correct, but acting like a jerk is not going to help at all. He should be playing mr nice guy right now if he was smart.

	02-02-2003 06:50									#53
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Im just loving this thread.

	02-02-2003 06:50									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I apologize for getting angry when Palestinian extremists and Iraqi extremists celebrate over human tragedies.

That's not what you're getting angry over. You yourself said you are angry over a presumption that some Palestinians were celebrating based on an as-yet unsubstantiated rumor. You then justified this presumption based on "past behavior" of Palestinians, which is 100% meaningless for proving the rumor true in this case.

quote: I don't see how I'm being hypocritical -- Palestinian extremists were overjoyed with the 9/11 disaster.

You're being hypocritical because you are using a stereotype to justify anger over an occurence that is, as far as we know, fictional. That's no different than a, say, fundamentalist Christian homophobe painting gays as deviant perverts based on his "past experience" with some gays.

quote: And, with gay rights issues in the past, I have often talked about how extreme fundamentalists use God and religion as weapons of hate -- well, Palestinian extremists are doing the same thing towards Americans and Israelies.

How about you indulging in some stereotpying of your own here thats feeding a racist rumor that isn't even shown to be true yet?

	02-02-2003 07:02									#55
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Even if the entire arab population was celebrating ans shooting off fireworks.. why get mad?

	02-02-2003 07:07									#56
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I claim victory in debate, by virtue of the sheer weight of my rolleyes smilies.

"Yeah, sure, MrFun. Let's just all eat babies while we're at it."

	02-02-2003 07:22									#57
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Nooo!~ I bow down to your infinite wisdom, Sir Loinburger. Your tactic to win the debate was just ingenious!

Calc, thinking... Why didn't I think of that?





EDIT: The synchronized mass eye rolling makes it even more cooler... dammit. Im... jealous.

Last edited by Zero on 02-02-2003 at 07:32

	02-02-2003 07:24									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Equally, don't be surprised and struggling to restrain a smirk at the first "Exploding Columbia" joke you receive by e-mail or at work. It's a tragedy. It's horrible- but that's all it is. Making a political point on it is just pissing on those poor sods graves.

BUT THATYS THE THING,D IDNT THEY HAVE NO GRAIVES BECAUSE TEHY BURNT UP IN THE ATMOSPHEERE!?!1? HAHAHAHA

Feigned idiocy on Laz' well put post. Approach with thought and respond with honesty!

	02-02-2003 07:27									#59
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...OR AM I?!?!

	02-02-2003 07:29									#60
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quote: Argue the point with Reuters:

He was being cynical.