08-02-2003 18:57									#91
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There is a French team, they should get France if they want it...

	08-02-2003 19:09									#92
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Maybe we should choose Greece after all. At least they have a city named Apolyton

	08-02-2003 19:09									#93
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1. Greece
2. Carthage
3. France

	08-02-2003 19:41									#94
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It is now official that we are playing on a standard size map, with continents, and normal climate and age settings. No AcP, No AI's. Standard victory conditions.

Barbarians look like restless, but not finalized. Difficulty at regent or monarch.

The only other team which has publicly declared its civ choices is CGN - Ottoman first, Carthage, Persia.

Oh - and Borc's Webring team wants the color German Blue.

	08-02-2003 19:42									#95
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan do we REALLY want to play france. I don't.

I think that you can find the answer to this question in everyone's post. People who have voted France want to play with it, and people have haven't voted France don't want to play with it

Being a bit more serious... What are we going to do if someone else want our first pick? Just take the second and let them the contested civ? I think we should try to fight for it even a little.

	08-02-2003 19:54									#96
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nye - question - as this debate continues - can people change their votes?

Also - in terms of a deadline - I have asked the other teams about timing. The parameters were just determined this morning - so some sites may need the weekend to workout a civ choice. I suggest Sunday at midnight (est) , or maybe 3 am Monday - to allow the west coasters to get in from their weekends and vote. What do you think?

	08-02-2003 20:06									#97
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Being a bit more serious... What are we going to do if someone else want our first pick? Just take the second and let them the contested civ? I think we should try to fight for it even a little.

No - no fighting. Well sort of. Here is the process. All teams declare their top three picks. Those who have the same first pick go into a coin toss or rock-scissors-paper challenge to determine who will get that civ. Losers go to their second picks. If that has been taken, or is the same as another loser's second, you go through the process again.

A few points -

1) if all sites pick the same three civs, we may have to do this again. (although Firaxis is picking last by default)
2)we should really be sure about our second and third choices (and nye should also note fourth and fifth place finishers as a contingency)
3) the process of posting civ choices on the inter-site forum is not yet determined. CGN has already publicly declared. If we knew what the others were going to choose, we could adjust our choices to make sure we got a solid second choice. If you catch my drift. With a 'closed envelope' approach to civ choices, it would be more difficult, but not impossible to pre-plan this.

	08-02-2003 20:09									#98
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , , we should get a poll with one choice only , .... have a nice day

panag - I disagree - nye's approach is better, paricularly given what may be a complex civ determination process at the inter-site table. I think in this context it is important that people vote on second and third choices, and that those votes have weight.

	08-02-2003 20:45									#99
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1. Greece
2. Babylon
3. Ottoman

I concur with the sentiments above that we need a peaceful, sleper civ. I debated long and hard between Greece and Babylon - my heart saying the former, my mind the latter. But Hoplites and History won out.

I fully appreciate the views on 'industrious' having been a long advocate myself, but as the game progresses, industrious becomes less valuable. And Hoplites generally guarantee your early survival so the game does progress.

Besides - this is "Civilization" we are playing, and this is Mark's site. Let's go with the classics!

	08-02-2003 21:59									#100
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And the latest deadline is 08:00GMT Tuesday - which basically means end of Monday for most of us. Gives us an extra day to decide. I will post our top three choices at 03:00 GMT Tuesday (10:00pm est here in GMT-5).

Teams will post their choices publicly in the other forum. I will post them here as soon as I see them, or better yet, in nye's civ tally thread.

	09-02-2003 00:27									#101
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Updated through MWiA and BetaHound.

Top contenders:
Carthage 27
Babylon 10
France 9
Arabia 8
Greece 8
America 7

	09-02-2003 00:30									#102
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound nye - question - as this debate continues - can people change their votes?

I can't see why not.

quote: Also - in terms of a deadline - I have asked the other teams about timing. The parameters were just determined this morning - so some sites may need the weekend to workout a civ choice. I suggest Sunday at midnight (est) , or maybe 3 am Monday - to allow the west coasters to get in from their weekends and vote. What do you think?

Sounds good. Sunday, Midnight PST would be a good deadline.

/Edit. Oops, make that Monday, Midnight PST.

	09-02-2003 01:30									#103
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Chinese- great everything
Iroquis- great UU

	09-02-2003 02:58									#104
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1) Persia
2) China
3) Babylon

Edit: Was swayed enough by MWIA's comments to take Carthage off the list.

Are we going to do a vote on civ color, as well?

Last edited by Vlad Antlerkov on 09-02-2003 at 17:47

	09-02-2003 07:52									#105
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AGH! Carthage = possible early GA or at most a UU not used to potential = BIG waste. Let's choose someone where we probably will get to use the UU to our advantage.

	09-02-2003 09:01									#106
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I agree with MWIA

If I was an agressive player, I would throw my exploratory warrior at the Carthage UU / Greek Hopalite just to screw up their GA.
Sure you would make an enemy, but all the other teams would probably thank me. It would be easy to convince them, we were doing everyone a favour.
This is a good tactic that MP players ARE using now.

I have been conviced that we need to "fly under the Radar" and not get an ultimate UU where all the other teams will gang up on you before you get it. (Rider & Sapahi).

But something like the Arab Ansar or the Mongal Keshic might work.

If we do end up being the Carthage {groan} , we will need to protect our GA.

	09-02-2003 10:42									#107
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"Fly under the radar"?
"Non-best civ"?

This is screaming for Babylon and a cultural squishing!

Vote Babylon! No one will see us as a threat until its too late!

Worried about an early GA? DON'T BUILD BOWMEN! Why bother? If we want to "fly under the radar" we won't be fighting much. Build defensive Spear that upgrade all the way to Mech Inf! Get a GA on our terms by wonders.

	09-02-2003 14:15									#108
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quote: Oh - and Borc's Webring team wants the color German Blue.

Do we get to modify our civ colors then? If so I'd change my vote to:

1. Babylon
2. Greece
3. England

	09-02-2003 16:48									#109
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Hell, Babylon beats Carthage in my eyes any day.

	09-02-2003 17:43									#110
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My vote goes to the Scandinavians.

BTW: Did you know that some Viking warriors drank brewed piss with mushrooms.
That's why they went 'berserk', hence the UU name.
(which is actually misspelled: It's a Berserk, not Berserker)

	09-02-2003 19:29									#111
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hi ,

only one vote ; the americans

have a nice day

	09-02-2003 21:45									#112
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1. Arabia
2. Babylon
3. Egypt

	10-02-2003 01:41									#113
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Just back from out of town...

1. Greece
2. America
3. England

	10-02-2003 01:45									#114
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Updated through donegeal and dejon.

The leaders:
Carthage 27
Babylon 16
Greece 16
America 12
Arabia 10

Eddited to add Arnelos.

Last edited by notyoueither on 10-02-2003 at 01:51

	10-02-2003 01:47									#115
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I hope people are comfortable with the 'take a weak civ' crowd and our likely second and third choices.

	10-02-2003 06:21									#116
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I hope people are comfortable with the 'take a weak civ' crowd and our likely second and third choices.

In my opinion, Greece is not a weak civ... but hey, that's me. America and England certainly are weaker civs, but I think it would be cool to play them in an inter-site game and have a good game

	10-02-2003 06:27									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Are we going to do a vote on civ color, as well?

Don't know if "voting" is necessary if there's some color that Apolyton (as a site) favors in design and junk (not that I've noticed one, but hey). Perhaps MarkG and DanQ, as the co-owners of the site, have a favorite color they'd like to be the official color for Apolyton?

If not, we just vote on a color to BE the official color to represent Apolyton in the inter-team game

	10-02-2003 08:29									#118
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I hope people are comfortable with the 'take a weak civ' crowd and our likely second and third choices.

I second Arnelos' comment above. Greece and Babylon are not weak. This is multi-play - and a whole new world.. (IMHO)

Besides - the way things are going - we may still get Carthage. Nobody else's first choice ... yet.

	10-02-2003 21:41									#119
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America is NOT a weak civ.

Industrious + Expansioist has the best synergeries in the game.

Assuming a neighbor isn't too close and the neighboring cities built can build sufficent military for defense

Washington queue:
1. Scout
2. Warrior
3. Granery (chop down forest tiles to speed up)
4. Settler
5. Warrior
6. As many urgent Settlers as you need to establish territory boundary.
7. Temple
8. Fill in Settlers.

Incidently, England has the same pattern with London, except the Granery will take a few turns longer from fewer forests being choped down from it.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos In my opinion, Greece is not a weak civ... but hey, that's me. America and England certainly are weaker civs, but I think it would be cool to play them in an inter-site game and have a good game

	10-02-2003 22:44									#120
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Greece and Babylon certainly are not power houses.

btw, it is my observation that civ traits and how strong you start are more important in MP than in SP, not less. Humans are far less likely to let up and allow you to catch up, afterall.

Agreed, America is not a weak civ.