05-02-2003 06:07									#1
	The Perfect Civ List Full PM-box? Change here!

i think the civs playable on civ 3 are very bad chosen (like the iroquis ). I think a game like civ3 should have civs that represent all cultures of all places of the world. So, anyway, here's the list:

America:
-USA
-Aztec
-Inca
-Brasil
-Argentina or Mexico(or both-- we need a spanish-speaking latinamerican civ)
Europe:
-Spain
-France
-England
-Germany
-Roman
-Greek
-Russian
Middle East:
-Turkey
-Persian
-Arabian
Africa:
-Egypt
-Zulus or Zimbabwe
Asia:
-Chinese
-Japanese
Oceania:
-Polynesian

That'll make 20 civs. What do you think of the list?

	05-02-2003 08:19									#2
	Re: The Perfect Civ List Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by South killer i think the civs playable on civ 3 are very bad chosen (like the iroquis ). I think a game like civ3 should have civs that represent all cultures of all places of the world. So, anyway, here's the list: America: -USA -Aztec -Inca -Brasil -Argentina or Mexico(or both-- we need a spanish-speaking latinamerican civ)

So, nothing north of the Rio Grand rates?

I guess you just don't know that much about it.

	05-02-2003 09:02									#3
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What's wrong with the Iroquois, anyway?

	05-02-2003 09:08									#4
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quote: So, nothing north of the Rio Grand rates?

Isn't the US north of the Rio Grande?

	05-02-2003 11:58									#5
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What about Canada, Sioux, Cheyanne, Cherokee, Iroqouis, Pueblo, Apachee, Numidia, Austrailia, New Zealand, Byzantines.

Who exactly are the polynesians? are they one race/ nation and what type of culture do they have?

	05-02-2003 12:30									#6
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quote: Originally posted by trevor Isn't the US north of the Rio Grande?

Yes it it. I guess notyoueither's statement should have been "So, nothing north of the Rio Grand before 1790 rates".
I agree with those that think this continent needs some civs in addition to the US.

	05-02-2003 15:16									#7
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One or two, maybe. It is already sort of crowded with the Iroquois, the U.S. and the Aztecs. You could add the Sioux or something.

	05-02-2003 16:26									#8
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A bit few asian civs as well. Forgetting the mongols is almost a crime. You should also add the indians.

	05-02-2003 16:32									#9
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The United States and Canada are extensions of English culture with significant chunks of French and German cultures mixed in for good measure. Mexico et al are extensions of Spanish culture.

Remove them or leave them out.

	05-02-2003 16:34									#10
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For 'American' cultures, I'd add Caribs, Pueblos, Mayans, and maybe Cherokees and / or Navahos.

	05-02-2003 16:43									#11
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A list like this will always be arbitrary.

You could add some Eastern European countries (f.e. Poland).
You could add some African tribes (f.e. Berbers, Bantu, ...)


What could be more interesting is what criteria did you use to make this list.

	05-02-2003 16:53									#12
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There are a lot of threads devoted to the subject of which civs are needed for the next game and/or XP, so maybe we ought to leave it to those threads.

	05-02-2003 17:24									#13
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quote: What's wrong with the Iroquois, anyway?

I think they weren't that important for be included as a civilization. On civ3 they could have included the incas instead of the iroquis. However, don't get mad at me. It's just my opinion.
I totally forgot the indians, yes, we should add them to the list. and perhaps 1 more european civ.

quote: The United States and Canada are extensions of English culture with significant chunks of French and German cultures mixed in for good measure. Mexico et al are extensions of Spanish culture. Remove them of leave them out.

In my point of view, either all the most important english and spanish extensions are included or none of them is included. If americans are in, other important spanish and english extensions deserve to be in (australia, mexico, argentina,etc.)

Edit: I also would like to see tibetans

	05-02-2003 20:56									#14
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South Killer you want a spanish speaking civ....

URUGUAY

	06-02-2003 18:54									#15
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To make the grade as a Civlization, a culture must have made a lasting impression on the world.

Speaking as a Kiwi currently living in Australia, neither of these two countries is worthy of this title. Incas? Yeah, I would support them as a civ.

But can't you, with the PtW editor, make your own civs with your own attributes? I know you can't add UUs (THAT would be cool...), but surely if you want something changed you can change it.

	06-02-2003 19:02									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

To make the grade as a Civlization, a culture must have made a lasting impression on the world.

Speaking as a Kiwi currently living in Australia, neither of these two countries is worthy of this title. Incas? Yeah, I would support them as a civ.

But can't you, with the PtW editor, make your own civs with your own attributes? I know you can't add UUs (THAT would be cool...), but surely if you want something changed you can change it.

	07-02-2003 03:35									#17
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hi ,

Israel should be on that list

have a nice day

	07-02-2003 05:01									#18
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So actually, when you remembered Indians and Mongols, the list in OP looks very much same as we already have in civ3+ptw. Do remember though, that Iroquois, while lasting only 200 years as civ, are there representing more or less all native North Americans. There's also more philosophical side, since Iroquois are religious expansionists, and they formed a confederation consisting multiple small nations that did not fall until american's independency. This is unlike majority of civs which are generally empires. Because of this iroquois will have communism as preferred govt type, too.

	07-02-2003 05:36									#19
	My next 7 civs. Inflate your Upload Space

The 7 I would add next would be:

Incas, Scots, Ethiopians, Portugese, Dutch, Israel, Khmers.

I've already added the first three to my mod, using leaderheads available at casperfusion. I'm planning on using the Polynesian leaderhead for the Khmers, and the Fidel leaderhead for the Portugese.

Some other tweaks in attributes, aggression, etc. would be necessary. At first I thought about modding bombardment because of the Hwacha, but now I'm thinking of replacing it with the Turtle Boat unit, thus solving the lethal bombardment question.

	07-02-2003 05:49									#20
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Those would be my picks for the new civs as well. Never heard of the Khmers, though. A couple of those are the ones they ought to have added in PTW. It should have been more than five civs.

	07-02-2003 06:11									#21
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , Israel should be on that list have a nice day

Yes. They influenced history way more than the Polynesians.

My civs woud be:
Inca
Isreal
Ethiopia
Maybe the Dutch

	07-02-2003 06:27									#22
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quote: So actually, when you remembered Indians and Mongols, the list in OP looks very much same as we already have in civ3+ptw. Do remember though, that Iroquois, while lasting only 200 years as civ, are there representing more or less all native North Americans. There's also more philosophical side, since Iroquois are religious expansionists, and they formed a confederation consisting multiple small nations that did not fall until american's independency. This is unlike majority of civs which are generally empires. Because of this iroquois will have communism as preferred govt type, too.

I agree with you on the philosophical side and of iroquis representing all north american tribes but i'm not really sure the NA tribes were that important to be considered civs when there were more interesting civs to add.
So, i've been reading your posts and I think we should add this civs to the list:
-Indians
-Thai or Khmer
-Israel
Not pretty sure if this one deserve to go in:
-Australia or Canada
-Iroquis
-Ethiopians
I don't think mongols are that important. They were just a bunch of barbarians that didn't even built cities.

Also Vatican should be added. We all know that the pope is just waiting for the chance to send his armies and conquer the world.

	07-02-2003 06:33									#23
	Re: The Perfect Civ List Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by South killer -Argentina or Mexico(or both-- we need a spanish-speaking latinamerican civ)

pffft.. Argentina? If you want a latinamerican civ you better think of Chile. Yes I'm patriotic but that's not all, we have a better history background than Argentina.

I belive that the Incas are in order to be the South American Civ in the game.

	07-02-2003 07:25									#24
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Just out of curriosity, what Civ Traits would the Canadians have, eh?

	07-02-2003 07:40									#25
	Re: The Perfect Civ List Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by South killer i think the civs playable on civ 3 are very bad chosen (like the iroquis ).

This from somebody who considers Brazil more important than India?

	07-02-2003 07:50									#26
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quote: This from somebody who considers Brazil more important than India?

HEEEYYYY!!!!
Heh, well, it's true. Our country have 500 years of history, of which only about 250 were really interesting, even though our history had important repercusions to the world (lots of our gold still lie somewhere in England, and they got it in really good time).

Still, I'd like to see Brasil as a Civ. I think it would be something like Religious & Soccer, I mean, Commercial.

quote: Just out of curriosity, what Civ Traits would the Canadians have, eh?

I think it would be Ultracold & LotsofTundra.
Nah, I don't know it very well, just from documentaries and stuff, but just for what I hear and see, I think i t could be Expansionist & Commercial/Scientific

	07-02-2003 07:58									#27
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quote: Originally posted by pedrojedi Religious & Soccer

nice!!! I obviously would play with Brazil if you got it

	07-02-2003 08:17									#28
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Canada:

Religious: went from Monarcy to Democracy(ok socalism) without a hitch.

Scientific: high education level, and hey we made the Canadarm on the space shuttle.

UU: mountie (gives double effect when garrisoned for happines otherwise usless in combat) early Industrial Age

or peacekeeper (colourless modern unit with high defence and like 1 or 0 attack)

Basically a builder civ, cause we ain't expansionist or militaristic, and well can socalists be commercial? oh yeah Its too damn cold to be industrious (right now anyway).

Plus someone has dome advisor heads you know science guy, military guy with Bob and Doug Mckenzie

	07-02-2003 08:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk The United States and Canada are extensions of English culture with significant chunks of French and German cultures mixed in for good measure. Mexico et al are extensions of Spanish culture. Remove them or leave them out.

Mexico is not an extension of spanish culture even if some ignorant USians call everybody who speaks spanish "spanish". Mexico is a blend of spanish and indian cultures and thus constitues an entirely different civilization in real life.

But since the Aztecs are included, I see no reason to have Mexico. Just mod the name in the editor.

	07-02-2003 08:41									#30
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I would include Incas (industrious, religious) and Brazil (scientific, commerical) for the Americas.

There could also be a Latinamerican civ with Simon Bolivar as its leader. I would loooove to play with that one!

For the ROW, African civs are missing, how bout the Mali civ? They had a pretty big empire once. Ethiopians with Haile Selaisse would be another option.

Austria-Hungary is missing. So are the Suedes and the Thais and the Polynesians.