08-02-2003 06:41									#61
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quote: I stayed in Mexico (5 years ago, 1 month), Argentina (3 years ago, only 11 days) and Brasil (2 years ago, 2 months) and I can assure you that from the fall of native empires nothing interesting happened here except for wars and dictators. And yes, I gone out of the tursitic places to see the "real" country.

Oh!! The typical imperialist thoughts. If you think latin american culture is like that, you don't know nothing of latin america. We have very great art, culture and literature. There are and were very famous latin american writers like Ernesto Sábato, Gabriel García Marques and a lot more.
Maybe latin american countries aren't that developed, in part for the fault of our politicians and IN PART FOR AMERICAN AND ENGLISH INTERVENCION in our revolutions, our economy and our goverments. The fact that many military dictatorships in Latin America were organized by US presidents is very well known. During the south american revolution, all the area of argentina, uruguay, bolivia, paraguay and (i think) chile were one country named Provincias Unidas del Rio de La Plata. English intervention there caused the division of it in many countries. (For example: When Brasil invaded uruguay (at that time named Banda Oriental) there was a war between Brasil and Provincias unidas for that region. The english goverment intervented and suggested that banda oriental should be an independent country and fomented that idea between the uruguayan population, and that way, all SA was divided into more powerless smaller countries, instead of a powerfull big one).
Another example is the crisis that argentina is suffering. During the last 10 years my country followed all the neoliberalist suggestions of the IMF (o FMI) and the country was called an example of a perfect economy model by the IMF. Now, all that ''perfect economy model'' is, in part, what has lead us into this crisis.

quote: They consider the natives as "crappy people" just because they are poors and by ages spanish "great" conquistadores just oppressed them.

That's not true. We are not proud of the past actions of our countries and we wish we had never wiped out all the marvellous cultures that populated our terriotory. Also, I think you americans are not in position to talk about that, as you also wiped out all the native cultures of your territory.

--Keep thinking in that marvellous imperialist way. We latins don't deserve to live. Only the superior race of the americans deserves that right. Come, please, to civilize us. (Sarcasm, in case you didn't get it )--

-------EDIT: This post was to Xar Xo. I made it thinking he was american but it appears that he is spanish. You should use the spanish flag and not that confusing little flag.-----------

	08-02-2003 06:53									#62
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo I live in Spain, and I can say that your spanish dialect that is considered "awful"

¿¿¿Who do you think you are??? Come here a talk to me with that ""beautiful"" S that you said it like a Z. Come here and tell me all you're ""beautiful"" words of the "real spanish language".

quote: Is pathetic, they peffer imaginte themselves as "latinos" than restore and modernize the old civ that stayed here.

That's pathetic??? Don't you have a mirror over there? As Chilean Pres said WE ARE CHILEANS! but we do believe in a Latin American Brotherhood... you don't? then what the h*** do spain in the EU? You're not brothers with the others european countries? Maybe you should look to rebuild your Roman Empire!

quote: another poor inmigrant to maintain.

this should not have a response...

You're not only a new kind of nazi that believes that the American Nations should not be consider as that, but you're really stupid if you believe that there is no art or culture here. Proof are so many that I don't want to miss my precious time explaining them to a "underdeveloped brain" as the one you have.

quote: I gone out of the tursitic places to see the "real" country.

I rest my case.

Viva Chile mierda!

	08-02-2003 07:09									#63
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Yep that's right the British decided to make us a country, that was all disscused without the uruguayan people, all the british wanted more places to put their products, well we can't really complaint of the english since they've built railroads and water services, and then we bought 'em back in exchange for the debt they had with us (stupid, really stupid )

pedrojedi i agree with good soccer (right now uruguay ain't having much of that good soccer )

south killer: no chile wasn't in it it was a different thing i can't remeber the name

	08-02-2003 07:18									#64
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quote: Originally posted by South killer and (i think) chile were one country named Provincias Unidas del Rio de La Plata.

nop.
Chile was the Capitania General de Chile, independent from the Virreynato de La Plata and from the Virreynato del Perú. Anyway, the british also came over here to make some railroads in the north, but mainly german, yugoslavian, croat an czechs.

Pedrojedi, I also agree .. soccer is good (and also I agree with Manya, Chile is not having much of that good soccer )

	08-02-2003 07:34									#65
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yep Chilean President we are sucking now and this is proved by Venezuela beating us both in soccer .

Yep is Capitania i didn't remeber that name

	08-02-2003 07:49									#66
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Manya te envie un Private Message

	08-02-2003 08:17									#67
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt To make the grade as a Civlization, a culture must have made a lasting impression on the world.

I have to disagree. Civilizations should be included if they are interesting and/or would be fun to play.

This is also why I'd be a big fan of including the Polynesians (or any sub-group thereof). It's simply mind-boggling to me that a people with such primitive technology could successfully navigate that much ocean to find such small and widely dispersed pockets of land. For a unique unit, there are all sorts of bad-assed ancient era attack units you could use, or you could go with a modified galley. Good luck choosing an aggression level though; in some ways they're very aggressive, in other ways not at all.

Then again, in my opinion and using the above criteria, the Sioux should've been included before the Iroquois. Of the aboriginal cultures of North America, they were the most… erm… "fun". They definitely would've rated a higher aggression score than the measely two attributed to the Iroquois.

	08-02-2003 09:19									#68
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quote: Originally posted by brianshapiro i dont think israel should be added, there was influence from the culture but israel was never an empire and was most times part of other empires . its impossible to not find it funny to put israel next to rome,france,america as world-players and you people know it. so stop trying to have your way but personally i would like to be able to play on a 50 player map with both small and large states/civilizations . in which case adding them would make sense, but so would adding other small history-specific groups like phonecians etc.

hi ,

since when do nations have to be an empire to be included , ...... the Gauls did not exactly had a large empire neither and they are in , ......

and please explain what you mean with putting Israel next to rome , france and america as worldplayers , .....

and what do you mean with "so stop trying to have your way" , .....

have a nice day

	08-02-2003 19:09									#69
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quote: Chile was the Capitania General de Chile, independent from the Virreynato de La Plata

Sorry, My mistake.
I like your ideas about a rainforest guerrilla UU and specially that one about half-naked carnaval women .
I also would like to see a tibetan civ, as i posted early. I knew nothing of tibet until i read The Third Eye (El Tercer Ojo) by Lobsang Rampa, that tells how life was there when the country was free. their UU would be the tibetan monk and it would have the ability to spy enemy cities and also to convert them.
That would be cool!!!

Anyway, argentina still has the best football in Latin America

	08-02-2003 21:50									#70
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Oh no... prepare yourselves everybody...

an Argentina vs. Brazil football rivalry thread looms in the horizon!

	08-02-2003 21:53									#71
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quote: Originally posted by panag since when do nations have to be an empire to be included , ...... the Gauls did not exactly had a large empire neither and they are in , ......

The Gauls??? Are you sure you're talking about Civ3?

	08-02-2003 21:58									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen The Gauls??? Are you sure you're talking about Civ3?

He means France!

	08-02-2003 22:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Oh no... prepare yourselves everybody... an Argentina vs. Brazil football rivalry thread looms in the horizon!

Don't forget Uruguay

	08-02-2003 22:06									#74
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Well, if he meant France then they had the 2nd largest colonial empire ever.

(when he said Gauls I imagined Asterix as its leader )

	08-02-2003 22:06									#75
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quote: Originally posted by South killer Sorry, My mistake.

don't worry

about a "soccer war" between Argentina and Brazil, well.. sorry South Killer, my bet goes to Pedrojedi's civ

I agree with Underseer, fun civ should be included. And I sure miss the sioux

	09-02-2003 00:58									#76
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quote: Oh no... prepare yourselves everybody... an Argentina vs. Brazil football rivalry thread looms in the horizon!

Hehe, don't worry. Even though it sounds tempting, I would rather just keep things nice here, since an amazing thing happened in this thread: a coalition of different latinoamerican countries citizens!

And, of course, such subject would fall out of our present discussions. It sounds tempting, but no (d*mn, that itches! ). Maybe some reserved comments, but we should live for another time.

quote: The Gauls??? Are you sure you're talking about Civ3?

Actually, the Gauls ARE in civ3 as Gauls... but they are only ravagin' restless furious random barbarians wearing white underclothes and boots.

	09-02-2003 01:06									#77
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quote: Originally posted by pedrojedi since an amazing thing happened in this thread: a coalition of different latinoamerican countries citizens!

you're right.. it is amazing! We do have differences between our countries, but the defence of our region is work for all of us. This was a good nice thread after all.

	09-02-2003 01:14									#78
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yep we united

so let's keep the soccer thing for some other ununited thread

	09-02-2003 01:56									#79
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Me? Stay on topic? Perish the thought!

Just wait 'til the next 'Cup! I can promise you that the teams from CONCACAF will… erm… we will… get spanked really bad. On the plus side, we Americans will probably manage to field even more Elvis impersonators in the stands. If you're not gonna win, you might as well have fun on the way down!

	09-02-2003 04:03									#80
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I was just joking about the football thing. Don't want to start a war.
I have an idea: How about Provincias Unidas as a civ?
i don't think that's gonna happen*sigh*

quote: we Americans will probably manage to field even more Elvis impersonators in the stands. If you're not gonna win, you might as well have fun on the way down!

That's the only reason i watched the american's (or unitedstatitean's ) matchs on the world cups.

	09-02-2003 04:10									#81
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Las Provincias Unidas del Rio de la Plata, hehe i like it

Right we should not start a soccer war between Argentina and Brasil because we all now Uruguay is the best one or at least it was the best now we suck

	09-02-2003 09:51									#82
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quote: Originally posted by pedrojedi Hehe, don't worry. Even though it sounds tempting, I would rather just keep things nice here, since an amazing thing happened in this thread: a coalition of different latinoamerican countries citizens!

Let's hope a EU-style Latinamerican Union isn't too far off...

Plus, if the EU has a zillion languages, we can do better with only 2! (well, more if you count the carribean countries)

But it is the soccer that binds us...

And Bush hatred.

	10-02-2003 00:55									#83
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quote: i dont think israel should be added, there was influence from the culture but israel was never an empire and was most times part of other empires . its impossible to not find it funny to put israel next to rome,france,america as world-players and you people know it. so stop trying to have your way

Celts were never an empire either. They were around lots of places but they were tribes not an empire.
Japan had it's empire only in the beginning of the 20th. century.

I am willing to settle for a canaanite civ, which incompases the hebrews the phoencians and the other canaanites.

	10-02-2003 02:17									#84
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Ehem , no one CULTURE produced AFTER Industrial Revolution could be assigned to ANY country, so speak about architects, nobel prizes and other is quite useless except in the case that a very specialized branch of a global movement develop a knowledge that originates a wonder, this is: Tour Eiffel, for example.

About araucanos: Great! But not "Chile" and "spanish language", put "Araucaria" and "araucarian". Iraq is a descendant of Babylon, but not Babylon itself!

	10-02-2003 02:23									#85
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2 languages? What about Quechuan, Aymará and Guaraní? They are official too. Just for me, South America simply enters in the "interesting" category by these languages.

And not forget Carib, Arawak, French...

	10-02-2003 03:10									#86
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Well, don't forget that we did not say that all América Latina speaks only two languages, only that two languages are largely known to almost all latinoamericans - spanish and portuguese. So, THIS fact makes communication easier between all our countries.

Just because we did not say it, it does not translate into unknowing something.

	10-02-2003 03:30									#87
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo About araucanos: Great! But not "Chile" and "spanish language", put "Araucaria" and "araucarian". Iraq is a descendant of Babylon, but not Babylon itself!

The name "Chile" is a native word. It came from the the bird called "trih" or "chi" by the mapuches and other tribes. The "spanish language" is an accident of the history. After all the chilean people does not descend totally from the indians but from the mix of natives and europeans that evolve in a new race from the cultural mixture. Anyway the chilean modern state is compossed by 60% pure european descendent (mainly from Germany, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Spain and Italy), 30% mestizos (chilean descedent from spanish + native chileans), and 10% native chileans (more or less).

Then I don't understand what you're saying. Chile is proud of the past, the history of the Mapuches/Araucanos and the history of the construction of our own country, but faces the future as a new nation. Anyway I don't see that peruvians want to rebuild the Inca's Empire, or you spanish want to rebuild the Iberican tribes.

	10-02-2003 03:53									#88
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Look, Africa is full of large history countries with interesting and millenial cultures. Same Asia. I think that we must look to these continents before South America. (except for Quechuans/Incans) Don't worry, your chilean civ sure will appear the day that a Civilization game has 64 or more countries.

Last edited by XarXo on 10-02-2003 at 04:05

	10-02-2003 04:06									#89
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo Look, Africa is full of large history countries with interesting and millenial cultures. Same Asia. I think that we must look to these continents before South America. (except for Quechuans/Incans) Don't worry, your chilean civ will appear the day that Civilization have more than 100 countries.

But you're right, from South America. The Incas would be a great civ.
I didn't post a reply of your "nice" first post, but now your're on my list. I hope that Chile could become a greater nation in the future and solve the problems that remains in our country to do that. Anyway is nicer to have a future to write in history than look back to see the former glory.

	10-02-2003 04:20									#90
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I agree. Africa have great cultural tribes. Also I agree with the idea of put the Incas in the civ game. I will like to include to that list the Mayas and Chibchas from Colombia.
And sure, Chile will appear when a civ game have more than 100 countries.. you don't have to edit that as you did with that paragraph when you said that an american person in Spain would be a "poor inmigrant to mantain".