06-02-2003 18:20									#31
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Well, yes I must admit to some surprise.
*lost for words*

-Jam

	06-02-2003 18:37									#32
	Got spare money?

Love the idea re the National Fungus Park and the mindworm safaris , accompanied by native guide. But photos or capture only. None of this white hunter stuff.

	06-02-2003 18:41									#33
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And make sure no mogul changes it to a waste deposit.

	06-02-2003 18:52									#34
	Suffering from ads?

Anybody tries to dump crap there, they deal with the guy with the swords...

And as for the safari/hunt thing, well, that's what's up for discussion... I'm still amazed at the capacity for any discussion on this board to turn into FM v. Green, some way or another

	06-02-2003 19:38									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Would the fact that I'm a virgin who's never had sex or even masturbated surprise you?

One of my religion teachers has told us once statistics say 95 to 98% of the people (or men, not sure) masturbate in their youth...

	06-02-2003 21:22									#36
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Which makes it all the more surprising...


But this is far more OT than I was wanting this thread to go

	07-02-2003 02:37									#38
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wow. i thought this thread was going to turn into one of those arguements again, but i guess i was wrong

	07-02-2003 03:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic 2) Even the layman's definition supports my position. While their capacity for intelligence is lower than that of homo sapiens, all those creatures possess the faculty of perception. They are sentient. We domesticate and kill sentient beings. Get used to it. It's only been happening since the dawn of human civilization, perhaps before.

They may be sentient (from: to sense), but as far as we know they are not conscious or self-aware. AFAIK only humans, chimpansees and orang utangs can recognize themselves in a mirror. Others think it's someone else of their species. I'm not sure about dolphins.

	07-02-2003 11:01									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: GT : Why do planet pearls bring money? People will buy anything.

Because they contain energy.

As for the argument that we are killing sentient beings when we call worms: hardly. As the whole fungal network, and the worms and so forth, are part of a single mind, one is not actually killing an indepndant life form, but merely removing a single part of it.

	07-02-2003 11:13									#41
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Indeed. We're pruning a harmful part of a plant in a sense. Or perhaps you could relate it to declawing a cat.

	07-02-2003 12:33									#42
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More like cutting its fingers off.

GO GREEN !

-Jam

	07-02-2003 12:36									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Why? It's not as if the worms are irreplaceable, and they're not used for anything essential, either (unless you consider the hunting and destruction of any sentient life they can find to be 'essential').

	07-02-2003 13:02									#44
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Are we discussing making a nature reserve or a safari park here? I think the whole idea is to set aside part of Planet that we don't rape and pillage. The worms are essential to Planet as a first line of defence against people like us. Killing the worms is equalivalent to deliberately infecting someone with HIV, IMHO, and something only to be practiced in defence. We want trance defenders, not empath rovers.

-Jam

	07-02-2003 13:07									#45
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quote: Are we discussing making a nature reserve or a safari park here?

Either, or both.

quote: The worms are essential to Planet as a first line of defence against people like us.

Given that Planet can replace them quite easily, and that their purpose is to 'defend' Planet by killing us, I have no compunction agaisnt killing them if it's convenient to do so. btw, youd o know that our troops have standing orders to shoot worms on sight, don't you?

quote: Killing the worms is equalivalent to deliberately infecting someone with HIV, IMHO,

Hardly, given that we won't be weakening Planet and exposing it to other things.

quote: We want trance defenders, not empath rovers.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why it's better to wait until the worms try to kill us before we flame them?

	07-02-2003 13:36									#46
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Because the UN charter is against the taking of life, except in self defense ? In RL, I mean, and we can assume that any future UN charter will say the same thing.
Imagine if the police went around looking for future murderers and then killed them. Or if we went into a jungle with the aim of killing all the poisonous snakes, tigers etc., if you want to complian that the mindworms are not on that level.

-Jam

	07-02-2003 14:08									#47
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quote: Because the UN charter is against the taking of life, except in self defense ?

Given that the sole purpose for which the worms exist is to kill us, attacking them on sight is self-defence.

	07-02-2003 14:55									#48
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GT, by no stretch of the imagination can attacking on sight be described as "self-defence", regardless of the intention of the mind worms to attack us in the future. In a cold war scenario is it possible that a "first strike" is self defence? If I knew you wanted to kill me, would I be justified in killing you first? Far better would be to let you try, and for me to defend myself, even if this would reduce my chances of "victory". If I'm threatened by a group of teenagers in the street, do I then threaten or attack the next teenager I see, worried that he is a hooligan too? Of course not. Although I may walk a bit faster, or go to the other side of the street...

-Jam

	07-02-2003 14:58									#49
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Do you also believe that it is unnacceptable for a soldier to shoot first if he sees an enemy? We're in a state of permanent war with the worms.

	07-02-2003 15:10									#50
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus We're in a state of permanent war with the worms.

I'm not sure about that... more a state of misunderstanding, which I hope to see corrected in the future. The worms which attack us, we sadly must defend against, leading to the deaths of the worms (or our men) but I see no reason to take an attack and move aginst the wild worms with our millitary.

-Jam

	07-02-2003 15:13									#51
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quote: I'm not sure about that... more a state of misunderstanding, which I hope to see corrected in the future.

The sole purpose for which they exist is to seek out sentient life and destroy it. Doesn't sound much like a misunderstanding to me.

btw, i'm not advocating that we go out and hunt worms just to get rid of them (that's impossible), but rather that we hunt them because we can make use of the energy it brings in.

	07-02-2003 15:18									#52
	Put an end to popups!

You want to go out and kill another living, thinking being, just for the energy ? Come on, GT. This is hardly justifiable.

-Jam

	07-02-2003 15:21									#53
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The worms are not thinking beings. They are part of a thinking being (the fungal network) but they aren't sentient in themselves.

	07-02-2003 15:38									#54
	Increase the size of your Attachments

OK, then you want to mutilate a thinking being for cash. Either you work in a tattoo parlor or...

-Jam

	07-02-2003 15:41									#55
	Tired of ads?

Or I simply don't see a problem with killing things that kill us and profiting from it. I think we should hunt them because it brings in money, and I think it's justifiable to hunt them because they exist to kill us.

	07-02-2003 16:03									#56
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Let's take the tiger as an example.
The tiger is a large predator, it is very dangerous. A tiger has a very nice fur coat too! Because the tiger is a large predator, it sees humans as prey. So it will often kill them for food. A tiger, however, is one of the animals in the cat family. These animals will sometimes kill for sport, or if they feel threatened. The tiger will attack humans for no reason.

Should we then make a tiger preserve, and then send in men with guns to kill the tigers ? We could sell those nice fur coats for lots of money.

-Jam

	07-02-2003 16:05									#57
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No, because the tiger is only a threat if one actually lives near it. The same cannot be said of the worms.

	07-02-2003 16:15									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Killing these worms is no different from killing Cows for their meat. Or perhaps Chickens, since these things are "Free Range", and everything tastes like chicken anyway.

	07-02-2003 16:18									#59
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Careful, he might be a vegetarian.

Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 07-02-2003 at 16:29

	07-02-2003 16:58									#60
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Yes. I'm a veggie. No surprise there, eh?

Worms are also only a threat if one lives near them. Since their natural habit is the whole of Planet, I think the tiger comparison holds.

-Jam