06-02-2003 09:55									#1
	Did Powell damage his reputation for presenting crap in front of the UN? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ahem.

You call that evidence, eh? Kinda thin don't you think? A bunch of fuzzy photos with a piece of alleged recording between Iraqi military personnel.

Looks bad. Powell put his own reputation behind this, and that did him no good.

What do you think?

	06-02-2003 10:00									#2
	Re: Did Powell damage his reputation for presenting crap in front of the UN? Get a bigger avatar today!

Pretty bad....

	06-02-2003 10:01									#3
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It's not what we think, it's what happens next and what UN members think

BTW Colin Powel and behind him two Greek Americans.

CIA chief Tenet and US ambassador to the UN Negreponte.
kind of funny to see those two together like that

	06-02-2003 10:01									#4
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I think Colin Powell is a fine man and, no, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a good deal of the rest of the planet decides the material he presented in regards to Iraq is moot. After all, the Iraqi response was so much more believable!

Gatekeeper

	06-02-2003 10:03									#5
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anybody heard on the initial reactions?
I was in another planet yesterday

	06-02-2003 10:04									#6
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Powell is indeed the trump card and I hope they never ask him to do something like this again.

Did his reputation take a hit? Yes, but it's still lofty.

Powell is still the most respected diplomat in the modern world. Even the Yankee Haters respect him. He's a good solider.

	06-02-2003 10:09									#7
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I don't think so.. he had a tough task to do, and he did good.
And I agree 100% with Ted Striker, Powell is respected even amongst people who are anti-US, or otherwise against it's foreign policy. Everyone takes him seriously, and he doesn't have anything that people think is bad like Dubya is sometimes seen as dumb, Rumsfeld maybe too fundamentalist Christian etc etc.. by anti-US people of course. But Powell is just seen as man who is to be taken seriously. You don't see many Powell jokes, or his name in protest signs, because it's hard to think about him and make them.

Actually, I would love to see mr Powell running for presidency.. he has the worlds respect by his character alone, not just power and all that.

	06-02-2003 10:13									#8
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Gatekeeper,

I am not saying the Iraqi response is more credible. It is just that if they can throw enough doubt on it, the whole presentation becomes a wash. Apparently, Russia, France, and the PRC remain unconvinced. They want this info to be passed to the weapons inspectors so they can verify it. This is what the US should be doing all along IMO.


ted,

Indeed Colin Powell is the most trusted member of Bush's cabinet.

	06-02-2003 10:16									#9
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quote: And I agree 100% with Ted Striker, Powell is respected even amongst people who are anti-US, or otherwise against it's foreign policy.

I always thought that was funny. I mean, WHY? He was a pretty decent general, who did a good job as JCS chairman in Desert Storm, but other than that?

And I love when Eurocoms say he should join the Dems . Powell's a lifelong Republican, but because he's black and moderate he 'should' be a Dem... funny.

	06-02-2003 10:16									#10
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I don't think that this has harmed his reputation.
Nobody has really expected sturdy proofs.

	06-02-2003 10:17									#11
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Look, it's about oil and about imposing US dominance in the richest oil region in the world.
that much is sure.


now is Sadam a good man?

no, d'uh.


could he be possibly dangerous for the world?
i cant asnwer that. he IS a megalomaniac that wants control over that region.

is he more dangerous than NK?
no. but NK doesn sit on the worlds 2nd largest reserves
that makes Iraq more probable target and also more powerful its dominion in the region.

what about terrorism and iraq?
maybe maybe not

	06-02-2003 10:21									#12
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quote: Look, it's about oil and about imposing US dominance in the richest oil region in the world. that much is sure.

You know nothing about what is 'sure'.

What is 'sure' is that Bush thinks Saddam is an evil man.

Oil has little, if anything, to with it.

	06-02-2003 10:24									#13
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no my little republican thats you
it is hilarious that you would deny that basic fact.
also typical and expected

	06-02-2003 10:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I always thought that was funny. I mean, WHY? He was a pretty decent general, who did a good job as JCS chairman in Desert Storm, but other than that? And I love when Eurocoms say he should join the Dems . Powell's a lifelong Republican, but because he's black and moderate he 'should' be a Dem... funny.

I know, weird isn't it?
I don't know.. Maybe it's the whole image of Bush dynasty and some members of the cabinet.. you know.. oil. Many anti-US people (mostly left) are against that oil policy and the power of it and big consumption, pollution etc etc.. you know how it goes. Anyway.. Bush has his hands on oil, and some other people too in his cabinet. Powell however is not seen as one of these people.. Maybe it's some subconscious thinking from the lefties, I don't know.

Also he has different kind of charater.. dignity, authority, great wisdom, experience, humbleness.. they just jump to you when you see him speaking and listen what he says. More than that.. even if Bush speaks wise words and wouldn't be characterized as dumb, Powell would still have advantage to him. I don't know.. maybe he sends subliminal messages by morse coding with his eyes, getting everyone into mass hypnosis, I don't know.. but he's got that something you can't teach or learn and very few have it.

	06-02-2003 10:25									#15
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oh you edited your post imran


well i was responding to your initial post which was : You know nothing about what is 'sure'.

	06-02-2003 10:25									#16
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It's typical that a Eurocom would try to throw such a simplistic response to this affair.

ANYONE that says the main point of this 'war' is oil just doesn't understand Bush at all. That's not suprising, seeing as Europeans haven't a clue what goes on across the pond.

	06-02-2003 10:26									#17
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and Oil is the main issue here of course.

only a moron and an *resist paiktis RESIST* and errr a moron would deny that

	06-02-2003 10:27									#18
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It's not about oil.

	06-02-2003 10:29									#19
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Case Closed

	06-02-2003 10:29									#20
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IMO, Powell is playing the good cop to Bush's bad cop. He was instructed to play the skeptic/dove so he could make this "amazing" transformation and the presentation to the UN. That way people would say if Powell would change his mind, there must be validity to the administration's claims.

	06-02-2003 10:35									#21
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Case is closed, paiktis. Only a fool would say this is about oil. Oil matters little here except in history (ie, why Saddam was backed by the US in the first place). This entire showdown is because Bush thinks Saddam is an evil, evil man. Bush, unfortunetly, is a moral absolutist. He does most things because he things there is a moral purpose to it.

	06-02-2003 10:35									#22
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Imran,

Sure about that? Unless you are Shrub, it's pretty hard to tell.


ted,

If oil is not all of it, it has to be part of it. We all know for sure that Saddam being a nasty evil killer bastard meglomaniac doesn't factor into the equation.

	06-02-2003 10:37									#23
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Berzerker, that would be good strategy yes. But people liked him more even in the case of Afghanistan.

	06-02-2003 10:37									#24
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Actually I'd take oil completely out of it.

We discussed the route the US is taking to completely bypass the middle east and oil altogether in the past so I won't rehash it here.

I would actually say that Saddam being a nasty bastard DOES play a HUGE part in this, as Imran pointed out, Bush has a very unique style of personal politics, and how he feels about someone personally literally has global repurcussions.

	06-02-2003 10:40									#25
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UR, we USAians sometimes know what our leaders think. Maybe not most of time, but some of the time .

Ted is spot on. He is very into how he feels about someone personally. He's very unpolitical about things in that way.

	06-02-2003 10:42									#26
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while i totally accept the moronity of Bush (and other leaders) I cant accept that he is THAT a moron that he would lead a country as infuencial as the US based on PErsonal feelings and moral absolutisms.

if that is the case you're screwed sooner or later.


but rejoice my friends, its about oil

but here I am with my french coffee and greek cigarets enjoying a beautiful morning and getting a bit updated on the news having spent some quality time late last night and believe me i am in no mood to have an argument

we disagree my lovely fuzzy pikatsu american friends of mine ok

peace and love to the world

	06-02-2003 10:43									#27
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Don't smoke too much of that stuff paiktis it will make you stooopid.

	06-02-2003 10:45									#28
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it's not THAt kind of fags

	06-02-2003 10:46									#29
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Too late .

	06-02-2003 10:46									#30
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Right on.