06-02-2003 23:07									#31
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I mean he really didn't have a leg to stand on. They've been allowing NK missile shipments to Yemen for years. Usually you want to tell people they can't do something any more before you go out and stop them.

	06-02-2003 23:07									#32
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Gonna say...

	06-02-2003 23:28									#33
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Yemen is also ally of United States, isn't it?

	06-02-2003 23:31									#34
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Now it is.

Recent events have sort of cheapened that concept, though.

	06-02-2003 23:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Yemen is also ally of United States, isn't it?

So they claim. We have precious little to show for it though.

	06-02-2003 23:55									#36
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They really aren't making UN's job easier when it comes to him appealing for aid for thier country.

	06-02-2003 23:57									#37
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BTW It has been U.S. policy since WW2 to have sufficient active duty military forces to fight two wars similtaniously.

We have something like 35k troops in South Korea and a like number in Japan. They also have Tanks and supplies prepositioned in South Korea so encase the commies attack the crews can be flown in fro the U.S. and Europe and just mated up with equipment waiting for them.

	07-02-2003 00:03									#38
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I really can't believe this happening. The US accept the threat of completely pissing off old allies by offending them with all means in order to lead a war against Iraq, whose relations to Al Quadea are considered unlikely by Mid East experts and they risk a huge increase of support for islamic terrorism in the Arab world and face a severe budgetary crises. Yet they hesitate when a country openly threatens the world with the use of nuclear weapons (well, of course North Korea is only one of three nations who don't rule out the possibility of a nuclear attack at the moment...[note: the other natinos are NOT Iraq and Iran])

	07-02-2003 00:05									#39
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This can be averted. Tell Kim that if he does launch a pre-emptive strike against us, NK goes radioactive.

	07-02-2003 00:13									#40
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From an objective stand point a case could be made that this will be NK last best chance for a unified communist Korea. In five years the national missile defense network will be up and running and then NK's small nuke stockpile will be effectively neutralized. It's now or never for an invasion plus doing it during the one month Saddam's regime is going through its death spasums is the best cover they're likely to get.

Of course if they really were going to invade the south they wouldn't be mouthing off about it now. They would just sit tight and try to get surprise will the U.S. is distracted. Since they aren't doing that I believe the NKs are just practicing a bit of brinkmenship.

	07-02-2003 00:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So they claim. We have precious little to show for it though.

In a nutshell, that about sums it up.
Do for us, do for us, do for us.

And what exactly has been done, for us ?

	07-02-2003 00:18									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi This can be averted. Tell Kim that if he does launch a pre-emptive strike against us, NK goes radioactive.

That bluff probably wouldn't fly since the long standing policy is no first us of WoMD. The U.S. would not respond to a convential attack with nukes and the NKs know it. Of course one NBC attack any where by any NK unit and the whole north will begin to glow in the dark.

	07-02-2003 00:37									#43
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Do they even have the capability? As far as I know, all they have are SCUDs, and those would never reach the US. And their subs would probably be detected long before they ever got close enough the US.

	07-02-2003 00:43									#44
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I figure we're going after Iraq now so it doesn't pull a "North Korea" on us down the line. It's bad enough having to put up with those nuclear-armed NKs and their blackmail, and it'd just get worse with Iraq doing it down the road.

As for NK's latest verbal barrage? Pshaw. Like they're really going to do something while we're preoccupied with Iraq. All this does is make me stiffen my back even more ... like someone else said in this thread earlier, every time NK spouts off drivel like this, it lessens its chance of getting any sort of help from the rest of the world.

Blackmail only works for so long, y'know, before something snaps.

Gatekeeper

	07-02-2003 00:44									#45
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Same if they attacked Tokyo, only even more so, because modern Japan is a bit less hated around the world than the U.S., or at least I get that impression.

It would definitely be more so. Japan would be seen as an innocent bystander who had the misfortune of getting caught in the crossfire.

	07-02-2003 01:04									#46
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Anyone here you sniff at the threat is a fool. "yeah, 37K US troops can easily defeat 1,000,000 NK soldiers, yeah, cakewalk..." Bullsh1t of the first degree. Still, any initial NK offensive would be stopped, mainly by the 600,000 SK troops along the front in conjunction with US airpower. Still, Korea is the last place the US wants to fight, those damn mountains make our airpower less usefull, and the NK have a way of digging tunnels (US intellienge suspects the NK has several tunnels big enough to fit thousands of troops and equipment, that go under the DMZ and almost all the way to seoul. ) Any war in Korea would make Iraq look like a pitiful sideshow, both in terms of American loss of life, total loss of life, economic losses, economic disruption, so forth and so on. We should pray that it does not happen.

As for diplomacy: no one would back NK: China has much to lose form any war nearbye, specially in spooking foreign investment. The Russians care much more about SKorean trade than NKorea. NK would be alone, and the war would still be short, but extremely ugly.

	07-02-2003 01:19									#47
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I think that "all the way to seoul" is a tad too much.

	07-02-2003 01:55									#48
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Azazel:

Sadly, it isn't too much. The SK have already found several of thse huge tunnels, but their intelligence tells them there are several more, and that the biggest ones have yet to be found.

	07-02-2003 03:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin In five years the national missile defense network will be up and running and then NK's small nuke stockpile will be effectively neutralized.

Someone's been believing American propoganda again. How can a system that can only shoot down missiles in heavily faked tests be any threat to NK missiles? He'd have to fire a hundred ABMs to shoot down one enemy ICBM.

	07-02-2003 03:29									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Someone's been believing American propoganda again. How can a system that can only shoot down missiles in heavily faked tests be any threat to NK missiles? He'd have to fire a hundred ABMs to shoot down one enemy ICBM.

It wouldn't be very good propaganda if nobody believed it

	07-02-2003 03:35									#51
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quote: BTW It has been U.S. policy since WW2 to have sufficient active duty military forces to fight two wars similtaniously.

You're talking about the 2.5 war standard, but even at the height of the Cold War it was unrealistic and unworkable, to say nothing of today.

	07-02-2003 03:36									#52
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This is what happens when you start a pissing contest with a psychopath like Kim. If it happens, I blame Bush (duh obviously...).

Chegitz... I'm surprised at the number of people that think the US has this capability already. Let alone 5 years.

	07-02-2003 03:38									#53
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The fact that Chegitz couldn't say similar, yet opposite, things in Iraq, N. Korea, Cuba, etc. and expect to fare well, is not merely propaganda.
It's statement of fact.

	07-02-2003 03:42									#54
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See what happens when you're a war-monger in one part of the world? It leave you vulnerable to war-mongers in other parts of the globe.

N.Korea sees itself as standing alone against the face of "American fascist imperialism." They seem to honestly believe they can take us on and win (see what a cult mentality does to you). It is possible that they see themselves as defending Iraq from U.S. imperialism.

I can't say I agree with the threat against innocents South Koreans to defend innocent Iraqis, but if it gives the US pause, maybe it's not so bad.

	07-02-2003 03:44									#55
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The fact that Chegitz couldn't say similar, yet opposite, things in Iraq, N. Korea, Cuba, etc. and expect to fare well, is not merely propaganda. It's statement of fact.

It's true. It's much better to be lied to by a government that won't necessarily kill or persecute you for telling the truth to their lies. Still, I'd prefer that my government didn't lie at all. Secrecy and lies are the enemies of democracy. Pity there are so many enemies of democracy among us.

	07-02-2003 03:46									#56
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That's all American "Communists" are, cult mentalities.
There are communist countries.
Obviously they must be lacking in something, or American "Communists" would be there.

	07-02-2003 03:51									#57
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American Communists aren't there because:

1. Those countries aren't real commies anyways!
2. This is a democracy it can be a Socialist democracy if the people vote it to be.

I'm sure there's a 3 and a 4, but I'm a lazy ass

	07-02-2003 03:56									#58
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The tunnel thing is myth. You can't fart underground without modern siesmic detectors picking it up, and the border is lined with them.

	07-02-2003 04:02									#59
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What if they are dug by hand?

	07-02-2003 04:07									#60
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And what if the tunneled during major SK/US military exercises or troops redeployments near the border?