07-02-2003 04:20									#61
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Wouldn't matter, they would hear. You can't escape a siesmometer, remember that. They could have dug w/ their dicks during a parade and we would still be there to greet them when they emerged from their holes.

The thing w/ Korea is the NK could erase Seoul w/ arty. The NK has arty out the wazzoo, all of it within range of the SK capitol. It's what makes the SKs so concerned.

I say we get the battleships out of mothballs. There's nothing like 16 inch shells dropping out of the sky like an act of God, and the place is a peninsula...

	07-02-2003 04:23									#62
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We should just save money and withdraw from Korea altogether. Not our business anyway, never was.

	07-02-2003 04:24									#63
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Lancer's right. If the DPRK was tunneling under the DMZ, we'd hear it. Not merely siesmometers, but also straight listening devices. Mining and counter-mining are old techniques. If they were tunneling under the border, we'd already have tunneled down to meet them.

	07-02-2003 04:24									#64
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I sort of wonder what shape NK's military equipment is in, especially since hearing about none of the elevators working country-wide because of Russian parts shortages. The arty hasn't been upgraded in half a decade, has it?

	07-02-2003 04:32									#65
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Dan, that's the great unknown. In the late 70's US equipment in europe was so bad it was a secret. I hope NK stuff is all rusting crap. Thing is, dictators look after their military before they fix their elevators...or they aren't dictators any more.

	07-02-2003 04:50									#66
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quote: In the late 70's US equipment in europe was so bad it was a secret.

hehe.

	07-02-2003 06:07									#67
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Thing is, dictators look after their military before they fix their elevators...or they aren't dictators any more.

True. True.

In the late 70's US equipment in europe was so bad it was a secret.

Could you have gone over the top with it though? How effective would you have been? Weren't you mechanized infantry during that time?

	07-02-2003 06:35									#68
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I was thinking about my posting, deleting it, writing again.. trying to sound smart and all that. Then I came to my senses, it only takes 3 words.

North Korea, BRING IT ON!

	07-02-2003 06:38									#69
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Dan, who knows? I chatted w/ a guy here at Poly that served in the East German army. In response to my concerns about the wretched state of the US army, he said the Russians were in bad shape too.

After I left things started getting better when Reagan put through his billion $ spare parts bill to carry things over. Then of course he gave decent equipment...

I was in the 2d Armored Cav, border guard. I was 11C, and served on a mortar track. Everything on our track worked except, of course, the heater.

	07-02-2003 06:39									#70
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Even though NK is small and screwed up we shouldn't underestimate them militarily. Dictators can be good at keeping a strong and ready military even in a small country will little resources. That is probably the very reason their elevators break, because most to their resources are devoted to their military.

	07-02-2003 06:46									#71
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Azazel: Sadly, it isn't too much. The SK have already found several of thse huge tunnels, but their intelligence tells them there are several more, and that the biggest ones have yet to be found.

Last time I was in Korea I took a tour of the DMZ and went in one of the NK invasion tunnels. The U.S. used ground penitraiting radar to locate the tunnels and then dug intercept tunnels.

Last I heard there were several more tunnels but everyone knows where they are and they're being watched so there's no real danger. The funniest thing is the north tried to say they were digging coal mines and not invasion tunnels. As a geologist I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of finding coal in Dacite (a plutonic intrusive rock).

	07-02-2003 06:57									#72
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Russian equiptment, even well maintained Russian equiptment, still is not really a threat to U.S. tanks.

But arty is arty, and they have enough there to really put the hurting on some folks.

I think the people of NK are going to change the course of history. They will revolt, and things will change.

If not, and NK attacks, I would not be suprised to see tactical nuclear weapons used.

Not kidding.


@Lancer: Heaters in military vehicles NEVER work, it's part of climatizing!

	07-02-2003 07:06									#73
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The heater always worked great on every hummer I was ever in.

The uparmored Humvees even had AC! Really crappy AC but it was still welcome on a hot day when I had to wear 40 pounds of body armor.

	07-02-2003 07:08									#74
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Flatlander, the one in the command track certainly worked. The higher ranks would all be packed in there. Once in a while one would come out to make sure we didn't have fires to keep us warm. Give away our position duriing training.

It got very cold, they stayed nice and cozy, and Lancer ended up in the Wurzburg army hospital with phunmonia. Still pains me in my back sometimes. They considered me walking wounded at the hospital and gave me a mop. So I mopped the hallways.

Wouldn't trade the experience for the world however. In my own way I made a difference in a few peoples lives. Rather personal memory though.

	07-02-2003 07:11									#75
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Oerdin, Hummers w/ AC eh?

Oh, and Flatlander, M60A2 vs T72...I'll put my money on the T72...

Last edited by Lancer on 07-02-2003 at 07:20

	07-02-2003 07:25									#76
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 "smuggle one on board a ship & park it in L.A. harbor." No big loss.

	07-02-2003 08:22									#77
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Come on Kribbler. Even an Angleno like yourself would have to admite L.A. is the worst designed city in the world.

	07-02-2003 08:59									#78
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Big threat if if the NKs use nuke one on the carrier battle group parked over there and nuke two on Tokyo. Retribution would be swift but the losses are horrendous.
Tunnel, meet Mr. Thermobaric Bomb, Bomb, meet Mr. Tunnel.
And BTW we do have a space-based ABM system.

	08-02-2003 05:02									#79
	NK TODAY: "Any US buildup in Korea and we will reduce the region to ashes." Increase Your PM Length

Well, they're not boring.

I heard this morning that an aircraft carrier (the Stennis?) is heading for Korea...

So, we'll soon know if NK is bluffing, or nuts.

	08-02-2003 05:03									#80
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Who is to say that they're not both?

	08-02-2003 05:04									#81
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NK TODAY: "If the US deploys more forces to Korea, we will reduce the region to ashes"

The USS Vincent is the carrier on the way. More "troops and planes"-FOX news-are also on the way.

Wish I knew what troops?

	08-02-2003 08:09									#82
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Anyone here you sniff at the threat is a fool. "yeah, 37K US troops can easily defeat 1,000,000 NK soldiers, yeah, cakewalk..." Bullsh1t of the first degree. Still, any initial NK offensive would be stopped, mainly by the 600,000 SK troops along the front in conjunction with US airpower. Still, Korea is the last place the US wants to fight, those damn mountains make our airpower less usefull, and the NK have a way of digging tunnels (US intellienge suspects the NK has several tunnels big enough to fit thousands of troops and equipment, that go under the DMZ and almost all the way to seoul. ) Any war in Korea would make Iraq look like a pitiful sideshow, both in terms of American loss of life, total loss of life, economic losses, economic disruption, so forth and so on. We should pray that it does not happen. As for diplomacy: no one would back NK: China has much to lose form any war nearbye, specially in spooking foreign investment. The Russians care much more about SKorean trade than NKorea. NK would be alone, and the war would still be short, but extremely ugly.

I agree with this. NK is miscalculating if it expects China to rescue it a second time.

The best chance to avoid war is for China to tell NK that if it attacks, it should not expect Chinese assistence if it begins to lose.

	08-02-2003 19:18									#83
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quote: US intellienge suspects the NK has several tunnels big enough to fit thousands of troops and equipment, that go under the DMZ and almost all the way to seoul.

I read an article recently (Salon.com?) in which the reported personally saw one of these tunnels. He said it was 250 feet below ground level, and that according to the military officials giving him the tour, it was one of fifteen found. One was so large that a jeep could be driven through it. The reporter said that the military suspected there were other, undiscovered tunnels, and that they reached far beyond the DMZ, possibly to the outskirts of Seoul.

	08-02-2003 23:17									#84
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NK has been running similiar statements in the communist controled press for the last 60 years. There is nothing new here except a few western news outlets actually paid attention to what they're saying.

Everything is business as usual.

Last edited by Oerdin on 09-02-2003 at 00:09

	08-02-2003 23:54									#85
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My two cents.

One of the main reasons we are hesitant to go toe to toe with NK in a shooting war is because that will be a real war. Lots of casualties and lots of time, probably years.

A little off topic: anyone remember the Pueblo incident with NK?

	09-02-2003 00:32									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer The thing w/ Korea is the NK could erase Seoul w/ arty. The NK has arty out the wazzoo, all of it within range of the SK capitol. It's what makes the SKs so concerned.

Agh, the only ammunition they have is that in their pre-placed ammo dumps on the border (many of which US and SK airpower would make quick work of, along with the artillery itself). After that they'll be fresh out, not only of ammo but of fuel and food. They just don't have the logistics to make any sort of mobile operations into the South; I'd be surprised if they could even hold their own on defense.

1,000,000 men? Yes, one million sets of arms and legs that aren't going anywhere but backwards.

	09-02-2003 09:58									#87
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The thing is that NK knows it's toast, and this will most likely be a last-ditch suicide effort to get into the history books.

A couple of well placed nukes would do a lot of damage though.

	09-02-2003 10:08									#88
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I agree. The military might of NK, such as it is, is overstated by a vast degree. They've got out-dated equipment, limited supplies, and no real reason to fight hard, *especially* on the offensive.

'bout the only thing they HAVE going for them would be terrain, and that only works to their favor on the defensive.

If they attack, they give up the ONE THING that might make their military hard to deal with. IF they want to keep Seoul under fire, they'll have to leave their guns where they are.

Stationary targets are juicy targets, and I'll bet artillery looks pretty when it's hit by one of those big thumpers we've got.

-=Vel=-