08-02-2003 15:14									#31
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An updated picture.

Attachment: traffic-problems2.jpg
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	08-02-2003 15:17									#32
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Oh, and where do I put the Water Treatment plant if I have a lot of water pollution? Near the pump or near the facotires?

	08-02-2003 15:27									#33
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Eli >> I wish I had the answer to the problem... but I don't, I'm having same problem

And I haven't built any water treatment plants yet, since I don't have a city large enough for this...

	08-02-2003 15:32									#34
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It seems that the sims choose roads over highways, when possible, and are generally stupid.

Another question, how can I follow one of "my sims" to work? I want to see the route it takes.

	08-02-2003 17:39									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Eli It seems that the sims choose roads over highways, when possible, and are generally stupid.

Build some schools?

	08-02-2003 17:47									#36
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I cant seem to pass the 9-11k population limit. I heard there are limits in the game beyond which you have to build certain structure to continue growing? Is there a detailed explanation somewhere?

	08-02-2003 19:00									#37
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Build a railway with passenger stations on both sides of the river. Also build some bus stations if you haven't, and subway when your population increases, or if you get really desperate.

The best thing about mass transit is that you get ticket fees from the passengers. I make a decent profit with transit systems in most of my cities.

	09-02-2003 06:44									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Oh, and where do I put the Water Treatment plant if I have a lot of water pollution? Near the pump or near the facotires?

I think somewhere in between.
Check your water pollution overlay. If your pumps are near the water pollution, then put it near your pumps. If the pollution is just in the industrial sector (and spreading out towards the pumps) build it closer to the industry.

	09-02-2003 17:21									#39
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quote: Tassagrad the BEST city of the cities I'll create, and the others are simply there to serve.

Tassagrad

	09-02-2003 20:59									#40
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Eli, you're city has developed very well, but I think you need to organize your zones a little better so that you can control where the traffic goes.

	09-02-2003 21:32									#41
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Sava, can you be more specific?

	09-02-2003 22:09									#42
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I find the radius system of fire departments etc a bit annoying, because they are circles i never seem to be able to get the edges covered of certain zones, and they won't benefit from the schools etc!!! also, do i need to leave room for buildings later on, or should i just destroy some housing blocks if i need to build a new clinic or so...?

	10-02-2003 01:59									#43
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Just destroy.

I've foundd that trying to match radii doesn't work because it doesn't seem to give the buildings near the edge the benefit of the doubt. Overlap but keep your budget trimmed. As density soars you'll need 5 elementary schools where you had 2 so overlaps become obligatory for all the common buildings.

Eli you're actually making life a bit harder for yourself by restriocting so severely. Every housing estate should have a few shops nearby. Hi tech industry can be very close to housing without impacting on anything except the wealthiest houses etc.

I don't think it matters where water treatment plants go. I put my first near my farms and all pollution dropped. I put the second near my factories and it all dropped again.

I've now got under 6% pollution in a 78k city. That is partly because I've relocated most of the heavy industry next door though by setting taxes on $$ to 11% and having a second region as 99% heavy industrial with 11% on $$$ (to keep the high tech in the main area.)

	10-02-2003 02:10									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I don't think it matters where water treatment plants go. I put my first near my farms and all pollution dropped. I put the second near my factories and it all dropped again.

Both farms and factories produce a large amount of water pollution, so this doesn't show whether it would work in a non polluted area. (although i believe it would, so long as it is connected to the water system)

	10-02-2003 02:47									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Sava, can you be more specific?

You should organize your zones so that Commerical zones are in between Industrial and Residential. It's better (for traffic purposes) if your Residential zones are seperated in neighborhoods where traffic can only go one way. You also want fewer intersections. Intersections cause the traffic problems you are having. Notice how the bad traffic areas are worse at intersections?

	10-02-2003 20:26									#46
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But fewer intersections mean more traffic crossing at the ones you do have....?

I guess we need to experiment on this more. With 9x9 blocks I've only recently had to upgrade from streets to roads everywhere then introduce a subway to alleviate my traffic problems (bus stops were a dismal failure so I scrapped them.) Be aware that the big football/sports ground will be a major source of traffic so link it up well with mass transport and surround it with shops

When cities take off they suddenly want lots of commercial so between res and industry, in the gaps where no schools or hospitals cover, basically anywhere will do but high traffic areas especially because they like the custom.

From what I've seen a treatment plant will work wherever it is in the system. The factory pollution dropped when I put it over by the farm and vice versa. No reason why one in the middle would be less effective.

	10-02-2003 21:33									#47
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If you have less intersections, you have less stoppages which equals less congestion in general. It doesn't simply add more traffic to the remaining intersections. And, you want to place your passenger rail stations at those busy intersections. The problem with Eli's city are too large to fix without a major overhaul in the design of his zone placement. In all honesty, I'd scrap that city and start over.

Plus, if you're going to build a city with dirty industry like that, keep it strictly along the edges to do away with pollution. It's also probably smarter to start near a corner instead of along the river like that.

	10-02-2003 21:55									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sava If you have less intersections, you have less stoppages which equals less congestion in general.

But how can you have less intersections? After all, you have to road every 4-6 tiles, you just cant avoid it.

I'd really appreciate a screenshot of what you're talking about. I'm having troubles picturing it.

quote: The problem with Eli's city are too large to fix without a major overhaul in the design of his zone placement. In all honesty, I'd scrap that city and start over.

Yah. I'm already thinking about my next city. This time with some planning ahead.

quote: Plus, if you're going to build a city with dirty industry like that, keep it strictly along the edges to do away with pollution.

That's a good one to remember.

quote: It's also probably smarter to start near a corner instead of along the river like that.

But it was such a cool idea at the time. One bank for pretty stuff and one for ugly.

	10-02-2003 22:16									#49
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Ok. Here's my idea. (picture attached below)

A medium sized map.

Blue - sea.
Green - Residential.
Light blue - Commercial.
Yellow - Industrial.
White - Schools, clinics, police stations, etc. Each white square will provide the services of it's part of the circle. Black - Highways.
Purple - Railroad for the industry.
Red - Railroad for the people to get to work. Built when/if necessary. Maybe subways will be used instead.

The four res&com parts will not be connected to each other via normal roads. To move from one to another they'll have to either use the highway, busses or later on subways or trains.
To move inside, they'll have to use the roads or bus stations in the beginning and subways later in the game.

Questions :
1) Is it a good idea?
2) Any idea on how big the white squares need to be to eventually provide all needed services, from fire stations to colleges?
3) What should the size proportion between the island and the industrial "borders" be? Roughly the same? Island much bigger? The other way around?
4) Is there need for more transportation in the home-work route, especially in the industrial parts?
After people leave the highway, is it too much to expect some of them to drive all the way to the corners?
5) Should one of the corners be replaced with water, to provide a water way to the region? Will it help?
6) Where do I stick the air and sea ports, when their time will come?

Attachment: sc4-sketch.jpg
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	10-02-2003 22:42									#50
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You only need roads like 4-6 tiles apart going in one direction. Think long rectangles, not squares .

Your design is on the right track, but you can't put all the zones in that configuration on a macro-level. Plus, when your population gets more educated, high-tech industry can go next to residential.

About your questions:
1) You're definitely starting to understand how to design zones to best suit traffic..

2) You need to spread out your services and integrate them into your blocks. Think about how a real city is designed. There are elementary schools in every small neighborhood and highschools are farther apart. I'll show you.

3) There's no absolute ratio of how much industry you have in relation to other zones. You go by demand... just don't restrict yourself to reserving spaces for zones.

4) My pic will hopefully answer this.

5) You don't want to build a map just for a city, but rather, build a city over a cool map.

6) Don't worry about this yet... you want to get the hang of building cities with good design before you move on to the next level.

Attachment: educationlayout.gif
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	10-02-2003 22:47									#51
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The Res. are huddled around schools and hospitals (set your ambulance and bus funding to 0, it saves money). Commericial zones are strictly on the intersections of the neighborhoods. And Industrials are near the edges and next to the rail lines. BTW I set my dirty industry taxes to like 15 percent because I don't like dirty industry. I have one small sh1tty city with all the power plants and dirty industry to satisfy global demand.

	10-02-2003 22:49									#52
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Sava :
Edit : You already answered part of in the above post.

Concerning your picture.

Where's the industry?

Isnt it too expensive to support a school and a hospital(I think it's a hospital) for every little neighborhood?

What about the empty spaces? Are you going to fill them someday?

What will you do when higher education becomes neccessary? Put a college in every neighborhood?


Can you send me the city? I want a closer look.

	10-02-2003 23:09									#53
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okay Eli, do you have AOL Instant Messenger? Or Email? I can send it to you. Send me a PM.

The empty space gets filled eventually. Industry is very small at this point. The extra school and health care facilities give the Sims jobs. Colleges, museums, and libraries don't use buses. Plus colleges and museums cover the entire map. You only need enough to satisfy the amount of students. Remember to adjust your local funding levels.

The important thing about any strategy you use or develop is to remember to not zone huge parcels of a certain type. You want to spread out small zones along roads with lots of empty space. Gradually, you fill in the space. This is very helpful because Sims don't change their "trips" The trips is the individual Sims' route they take to work (sorry if you know this). By spreading out your development, you spread out the traffic. As you fill in zones later on, the traffic doesn't flow along one or a few different main routes (hence, you don't get congestion). You want to place rail zones in between residential and everything else. When I send you some of my cities, you can see what I mean. I've got school soon, but I can send it to you tonight.

	10-02-2003 23:15									#54
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PM sent.

	10-02-2003 23:20									#55
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I am drooling over this so much right now. I have to stay strong until summer, I just don't have time right now, stay strong...

	11-02-2003 00:18									#56
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I improved my initial idea.

Since commercial zones love traffic and most of the traffic will go to and from the highways...

Attachment: sc4-sketch2.jpg
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	11-02-2003 00:22									#57
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I'd say the best way for a city to be, is without planning toooooo far ahead... Those two cities looks just too unrealistic...

	11-02-2003 01:27									#58
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Without planning you end up with some really major problems that are almost impossible to fix.

I already started playing that city. I changed again the locations of the commercials, and it goes quite well. But it seems that more highways will be needed.
I also used Sava's system from the last thread. With less junctions.

	11-02-2003 01:36									#59
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It's more fun to have an amlost impossible-to-fix problem, than to have no problems at all...

I like challenges...

	11-02-2003 02:07									#60
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And I like watching big, organized and pretty cities.