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quinns
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Okay Frozzy a.k.a redbull ... Good to see you back. And thanks for starting a new thread before the other one reached its limit. 500 is the limit?
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quinns
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Quinns defeated Mathemagician at turn 144.
Good game Math! Better luck next time.
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Lung
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of my princess Anastasia!
Mar 1999
time: 15:25
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Lung will NEVER shut up  
The Dual-duel format is the only way to have a truly even match-up. However, if starting positions are too lopsided, the advantage still lies with the player who gets the best location in the first game. Unless of course you start both games at once, which i expect that's what you do 
As for my starting location, Quinns, no, it WAS crap. I had a forest start on a 3-tile river surrounded by a swamp the size of Western Australia!  You, on the other hand, had a 100-tile river on jungle with endless mountains for the perfect gold/food/production triple-whammy. Being able to build cities a single turn away from the city of origin is an enormous advantage over having to plod across swamp for twenty turns to find a location only good enough for a city or two. Then of course the handicap is increased by huge borders with little production to defend it.
The fault's not with you, Quinns, but with Craptivision for making rivers the be-all-and-end-all of city sites. The whopping 5-gold/5-food/5-production bonus is too huge to overcome. The only reason i survived this far in BC6 is because i was isolated and too far away for BirdBreath to reach me. Even then i had a better starting location and an oppenent too far away to attack me at my most vulnerable. At least Civ3 doesn't rely on rivers to make a player competitive. The terrain mix is far more varied than CTP. At one extreme, you can get entire sections of map exclusively one terrain type in CTP. What was Craptivision thinking? 
Civ games shouldn't be like a game of dice where your fate lies totally in your luck of the draw. Civ should be more like a complex game of cards where you have to play with what you get, but can overcome a poor hand with skill and cunning 
At least with your challenge concept, more games can be played to show who the better players are, but CTP shows that starting location is the greatest single influence on the final result. I have won every game i have started (with one notable exception  . I would have won that if i didn't have scruples, dammit  ), and lost every game i didn't with one exception. Even then it took an incompetent opponent to let me into the game 
I would like to play you some time in the future, Quinns, but i need to downgrade my already low participation due to imminent study and family commitments. Maybe after i get a faster computer which will save me the 5+ minutes it currently takes me to open a turn. Hopefully later this year we can have a dual-duel showdown
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quinns
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* see next post *
Last edited by quinns on 12-02-2003 at 22:19
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quinns
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Okay, Lung!  5 + minutes to open a turn No wonder you don't play much anymore. Sure, once you upgrade your 1970's computer to something made at least in the 1980's  we'll play! Yes, dual-duel starts both games at the same time so it is, as you say, even.
Granted, I did have a better start in our game -- It is why I'm an advocate of the dual-duel format in challenge games. BUT, I think you could have done more with your position.... Look at all that good forest, ocean, hills, and mountains that you had. (Sorry, I couldn't let you get away with THAT "swamp the size of Australia" CRAP! )
[To open the below lungstart.bmp (really a .csg file), right click on it and save it as LUNGSTART.CSG, then double click it where you save it. It should open as a saved ctp pbem turn.]
 Attachment: lungstart.bmp
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).
Last edited by quinns on 12-02-2003 at 23:19
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TheBirdMan
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A real Master of CTP-PBEM - together with all the others.....
Sep 1999
time: 05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by quinns
Ummm.... Blarney and Dublin are two squares apart in our game. Don't give me that crap, Birdman! |
I do build a few cities (2-3 - maybe even 4) close to each other, when the terrain is suitable for that (or the surrounding terrian isn't suitable for anything).
quote:
But seriously Birdman, why does that bother you? Some of the other "old time CtP'ers" feel the same way about building "far apart". I don't get why that is so important  . |
quote:
I have a feeling it is asthetics with you and the others. The map just looks "prettier" when the cities are far apart. |
But that is thuth in a nutshell - believe it or not.
I "need" to feel something to a game to give it my best (giving enough time).
Those feelings can haves many different reasons.
I do like to build up a nation. Seeing a "virgin" area just inviting to be settled, that's just  .
The nation also have to have a decent look - here comes my aversion to rabbit-settlements. I don't say that the cities should be as far from each other as possible, but I want them placed so tradegoods and other important ressources are used in the most efficient way. See that is pretty. And that also gives me a good feeling towards that game  .
Not that I don't like the times of war and find them nessesary too - I do . But more often than I attack, I find myself under attack and with underdeveloped war-skills. It does give a "kick" to be under pressure - but when playing against humans, it also gives a defeat  .
So I have to improve the way I am building up my nation - giving more attention to science the first 100 turns or so - but without compromise my favourite way to play too much  .
And in games, where both ruins and wonders are nullified, I'll try to find a way to keep the game going well into modern age and preferable into genetic age - then I am sure, that my way of playing will pay off  .
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quinns
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BerXpert, I await your reply to what settings you would like in our upcoming challenge match dual-duel. Do you want to use the standard challenge settings?
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quinns
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quote:
Originally posted by Lung
Lung will NEVER shut up
The Dual-duel format is the only way to have a truly even match-up. However, if starting positions are too lopsided, the advantage still lies with the player who gets the best location in the first game. Unless of course you start both games at once, which i expect that's what you do
As for my starting location, Quinns, no, it WAS crap. I had a forest start on a 3-tile river surrounded by a swamp the size of Western Australia! You, on the other hand, had a 100-tile river on jungle with endless mountains for the perfect gold/food/production triple-whammy. Being able to build cities a single turn away from the city of origin is an enormous advantage over having to plod across swamp for twenty turns to find a location only good enough for a city or two. Then of course the handicap is increased by huge borders with little production to defend it.
The fault's not with you, Quinns, but with Craptivision for making rivers the be-all-and-end-all of city sites. The whopping 5-gold/5-food/5-production bonus is too huge to overcome. The only reason i survived this far in BC6 is because i was isolated and too far away for BirdBreath to reach me. Even then i had a better starting location and an oppenent too far away to attack me at my most vulnerable. At least Civ3 doesn't rely on rivers to make a player competitive. The terrain mix is far more varied than CTP. At one extreme, you can get entire sections of map exclusively one terrain type in CTP. What was Craptivision thinking?
Civ games shouldn't be like a game of dice where your fate lies totally in your luck of the draw. Civ should be more like a complex game of cards where you have to play with what you get, but can overcome a poor hand with skill and cunning
At least with your challenge concept, more games can be played to show who the better players are, but CTP shows that starting location is the greatest single influence on the final result. I have won every game i have started (with one notable exception . I would have won that if i didn't have scruples, dammit ), and lost every game i didn't with one exception. Even then it took an incompetent opponent to let me into the game
I would like to play you some time in the future, Quinns, but i need to downgrade my already low participation due to imminent study and family commitments. Maybe after i get a faster computer which will save me the 5+ minutes it currently takes me to open a turn. Hopefully later this year we can have a dual-duel showdown |
So when do we start our dual-duel match Lung? Or, if you prefer, we can reverse starting positions in our last match and start from there (just to show you that you start position WASN'T CRAP ). It will only take a few minutes a day. BTW -- Good luck in your studies and familly commitments!
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07-02-2003 07:52
After all, it took a garden of Eden vs my frozen hell for Quinns to overcome me 
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