10-02-2003 14:26									#61
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"...manically rocking a baby on his knee while bottle feeding it ..."

Having finally watched this over the weekend, that one was completely misreported. Jackson was handling the kid pretty normally to begin with, trying to get the bottle to the mouth and moving the veil out the way at the same time (feeding without a veil has enough problems at times), and then Bashir lunges and attempts to drag the veil up, catching the kids nose...kid gets rather upset by this...Jackson gets twitchy.

I contend that it was Bashir's fault, the stupid idiot. It looked to me like he wanted to actually get the veil off...would have added to the value of the film, that's for sure.

...as for the rest...yes, the guy's got problems...but I really don't think kiddie fiddling is one of them.

The whole program was a case of the poorest tabloid journalism. Bashir knew what he wanted and proceeded to cut the film, and insert the commentary, to give him his "scoop".

	10-02-2003 14:34									#62
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He took the baby form the mother before the placenta was delivered. That is just wrong. The kids need to see their mothers.

Would you let your kids spend time alone with him

	10-02-2003 17:29									#63
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Lock him up.

	10-02-2003 23:37									#64
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Sorry Boddies, this thread's already been trolled-up

	11-02-2003 00:29									#65
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Trolled-nothing. Jackson should have been investigated by the DA a loooooooooong time ago.

He's divorced from reality. There are enough stories about him and children that there may even be a grain of truth. He publicly(sic) admitted to sharing beds with 12-year olds, and his own kids apperently have no knowledge of their own mother.

Yeah, Live and let live.

	11-02-2003 00:51									#66
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...trolled by the person saying that sex with children is a victimless crime if they enjoy it. No?

	11-02-2003 00:58									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie ...trolled by the person saying that sex with children is a victimless crime if they enjoy it. No?

I meant you had understated the Trollishness in the thread.

	11-02-2003 01:02									#68
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On Fox news... there is a court paper that was supposed to be closed, now on the internet. Tells of Jackson and child sex stuff...pretty bad. Fox couldn't say more, just "lurid".

Maybe someone can find it on the internet?

	11-02-2003 01:06									#69
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You can limit yourself to looking near the start of this thread for that report, Lancer

	11-02-2003 04:12									#70
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quote: I think it's in the archives. I think it was Caligastia who started it. just search the entire forums for 'Caligastia' as username, and "Deaf Culture".

Thanks Azazel!

	11-02-2003 06:13									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer On Fox news... there is a court paper that was supposed to be closed, now on the internet. Tells of Jackson and child sex stuff...pretty bad. Fox couldn't say more, just "lurid". Maybe someone can find it on the internet?

It's at smokinggun.com

and it's a HOAX!!!!

I saw that irresponsible bit on FOX news and was OUTRAGED!

FOX is being trashing and irresponsible as always.

	11-02-2003 06:34									#72
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega It's at smokinggun.com and it's a HOAX!!!!

Source? According to smokinggun, Jackson issued a statement himself expressing outrage that the document was leaked, which is a de facto admission that it is real.

	11-02-2003 12:28									#73
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According to smoking gun?

HOAX!

Get real.

	11-02-2003 17:38									#74
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Strangelove: Good point. I admit that I'm blissfully unaware of the methods of having sex with kids, and there's a good chance that there's no way of doing it so that they enjoy it. But then again, I did say "assuming that both enjoy it". If you say that there's no way of them both enjoying it, then there's nothing in our opinions that'd contradict each other.

	11-02-2003 19:37									#75
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega According to smoking gun? HOAX! Get real.

Oh, such a good substantiation.

Show me some support from a credible source that it is a hoax.

	12-02-2003 00:20									#76
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hmm perhaps not...

it in know way make a statement written up by a lawyer for a child true.

Looks like a letter of threat to me... "pay up Michael, or we tell some nasty "secrets", and children are so innocent, why would they lie? Who is a jury going to believe, innocent little boy or freaky Jackson?"

If this were a true document Michael Jackson should file a breach of contract lawsuit against Fogel, Felleman, Ostrof and Wringler, Rent-a-wreck, Chandler stepfather, and the state of California for having an employee who would release such a document.

Especially when millions are involved, getting a kid to say things is not that difficult.

	12-02-2003 00:23									#77
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One other thing.... it is documenting Jackson saying things... but very shoddily....

Jackson concluded, "Whoever is now leaking this material is showing as much disregard for [the boy] as they are determination to attack Michael."


Have you ever heard Michael Jackson refer to himself in the third persoN?

Even more interesting, they say Michael issued a statement..... where is it?
A public statement and they can't post it?

Has hoax written all over it.

	12-02-2003 00:53									#78
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I never said the allegations in the statement were necessarily true, but I see no reason as of yet to dismiss it as a hoax. As for the Jackson statement, it was likely issued by a spokesperson and they truncated it, hence the apparent self-reference.

It could be a hoax, but right now I see nothing showing it is, certainly nothing to justify your shouting "HOAX" as if you knew any better than the rest of us.

	12-02-2003 02:42									#79
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quote: Thanks Azazel!

I am shocked and terrified at the thought that someone actually bothered to dig up that crap of a thread.

	12-02-2003 02:51									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Xuenay Strangelove: Good point. I admit that I'm blissfully unaware of the methods of having sex with kids, and there's a good chance that there's no way of doing it so that they enjoy it. But then again, I did say "assuming that both enjoy it". If you say that there's no way of them both enjoying it, then there's nothing in our opinions that'd contradict each other.

Even if they did enjoy it, the adult is using an immature person, incapable of giving informed consent, for his own pleasure. What do you think using a child as a pleasure object does to his/her emotional and social development? A kid isn't ready to be a sexually mature person, but if you expose him to adult-like sexual activities, and have him participate you're bound to warp his development.

	12-02-2003 02:56									#81
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I agree with strangelove

even if the body enjoys it some, mentally it is screwing up the kid

Jon Miller

	12-02-2003 04:29									#82
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Dr. Strangelove is Correct.

	12-02-2003 18:25									#83
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For mutual pleasure (again, with the assumption that both enjoy it). With the same logic, you might as well say that playing with a child is using them as a pleasure object.

Last edited by Xuenay on 15-04-2004 at 17:49

	12-02-2003 18:33									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Xuenay For mutual pleasure (again, with the assumption that both enjoy it). With the same logic, you might as well say that playing with a child is using them as a pleasure object. As for having the kids participate in adult-like sexual activities warping them up, even with the theoretical assumption that they enjoy it, sounds rather weird. "I did this thing with daddy, it was really fun, but now I'll have nightmares and not be able to sleep at night." Huh?

your are either

1. a Pedophile
2.Incredibly naive
3.Incredibly stupid
4.Trolling

I hope you are 2 or 3. If so you need to do some research on the after effects of adults having sex with kids.

If you are 4 shut up

If you are 1 go away and please don't come back

	12-02-2003 19:09									#85
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I haven't looked at any such research, no, but since Strangelove established that it's pretty hard to have sex with kids so that they would enjoy it, I'm assuming that most of the research is from cases where it fell under abuse. Of course, if it's impossible to have sex with kids so that they'd enjoy it, then all of this talk is on a purely theoretical level and impossible to prove right or wrong anyway, so it's pointless to argue... but debates are always fun, are they not?

I'd pick number five - a philosopher. If you insist on picking from those four, I suppose it could fall under number 2 or number 4, depending on your view of philosophers. (Or even number 3, if you want)

	12-02-2003 20:36									#86
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Just heard on the radio that Michael Jackson will be releasing his own video outtakes to rebut the Bashir documentary. FOX reportedly is paying him 2.5 million for the priviledge.

	12-02-2003 20:37									#87
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Well i bet it makes things worse. He has a warped sense of what makes him look good.