08-02-2003 03:50									#1
	Foreign Affairs Consulate: Legoland Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I have had some negotiations with Vondrak in one my PBEM games.

When he realised I was from the GOW, we started to discuss this game.

I will edit this post and insert my emails here.

P.S. I still dont want your job Panzer.

quote: >> >> > Ahhhh... >> >> >> >> > The Penny has dropped. >> >> > I understand so many things now. >> >> > All that trade posting on our GOW trade forum finally makes sense. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Glad I could help. >> >> Anything you might wish to share about your GoW trade forum? ) >> >>

quote: >> > As for info on our boards................... >> > I will share if you will share. >> >> > Rumor has it that Lego has a whole continent... >> >> The rumour is correct in that we haven't met anyone else yet, despite >> some serious efforts, and are stuck alone (currently, we have nowhere >> we would believe could be a landbridge or at least a shallow water >> passage to others). So far, we do have room to expand, being a bit >> lucky with no opposition but LOADS of barbarians, but fear falling >> behind tech-wise (currently researching Map Making in order to try >> getting across water to someone else ASAP... but as it seems we are >> unlikely to be able to build the Great Lighthouse and galleys might >> not be enough to reach another team). Also, there is much jungle and >> desert here... good city sites are not plentiful... :-( Hopefully, we >> are industrious and clearing jungle takes "only" a lot of time, but >> not forever. >> >> > While ours has erupted into political bum fight. >> >> > How the hell this game squeezed 4 civs on our continent is amazing. >> > And 3 of those four squeezed even further to share the top half. >> >> >A lot of discussion about war......ND is the largest (they popped a free >> >settler) and because of this, looks like they will be the unlucky nation to >> >be wiped out of the game first. >> >> >At least this will give them more time to concentrate on the Intersite Demo >> >Game >> > >> Is the continent so small? Judging from the minimaps gained through >> exchanges, I thought it was a very big one, with room enough for at >> least three civs...? >> >> Anyway, wish you good luck! >> Looking forward to talking to you in the future. >> >> Cheers, >> Radek

quote: > There is not enough room for 3 teams in the North of our continent. > It is the only place to find good land, and we are all expanding in > the same direction. I see. I assume that RPers down in the southern part of your landmass are sorta left out of this turmoil, having room enough for them? Our ambassador talks to them quite often, but they seem to be willing to talk more about other teams than about themselves... > I know my team would be interested in sending a suicide galley. > If we align them propery, we may be able to meet. > Something to think about..... Yep, I have looked at the minimaps and your (south)western coast seems to be close to our northeastern coast - like one or two lucky galley hops. I will tell others and once we are actually able to try contacting you (still a long way to Map Making), I will get back either to you or tell ZargonX, our ambassador, to make GoW a proposal. Cheers, Radek

I have not responded back to him yet.

You will note that I have hinted that ND will be attacked. If this gets back to RP or Lux, it will help with our war plans.

The Galley thing would be good....But they may get MM well before us, and now that I have hinted on the double suicide galley option, they may take this suggestion to other teams.

Regs

	04-03-2003 04:13									#2
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I chatted with Vondrack last night, and shared some information.

They have 1 galley, and are a couple of turns away from a second galley.
They believe their continent is more that 10 ocean tiles from our continent, so a suicide galley would have to survive a couple of turns. They do not have any plans to send any at this stage.
He is not even sure if a suicide galley from each continent would meet in the middle.

I moaned about ND, and maintained the illusion that we do not get along.
He also mentioned that RP felt they were under threat from ND....They have been getting a lot of communication from RP.

They have plenty of cash from fighting barbarians.

Nothing really important was discussed, other than I will let his scout live in our Misfits PBEM game if he sells me Mysticism at a discount price.

	04-03-2003 19:42									#3
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We should offer to split the money we make from selling contact with them to the other civs if they will come over and make contact with us first.

Also, how about we offer to completely catch them up in techs for 100 gold. They in turn agree to research Construction and give it to us the turn they complete it.

(We then trade Construction to Lux for Monotheism (they get Mono free))

	05-03-2003 03:40									#4
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If need be, we should throw in 150 gold + Construction for Mono.

	05-03-2003 03:48									#5
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic If need be, we should throw in 150 gold + Construction for Mono.

Why, when Lux is offering to trade us Mono for Construction?

We need to quit giving away gold. It will cost us 80 gold each to upgrade our Horsemen. We need to horde all the gold we can.

	05-03-2003 15:07									#6
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GF has been wheeling and dealing again

I got this message in a PBEM game I have with Vondrack

quote: BTW, following GhenghisFarb's persuasive PM stating you could see our continent in the PtWDG (which we considered 99% impossible), we went through all of our past savegames and found out one we apparently did not pay attention enough to - many many turns ago, there was a corner of a shrouded tile with a very little bit of lighter, perhaps coastal waters in it, which we oversought at that time). We are quite certain (99% that it is not Bob, most probably just a small island mid-way, but we are sailing there to find out. Our galley will be there in no time (1-2 turns) and we will get back to you once we know more. It now seems likely we could make contact with you shortly. Cheers, Radek

GF, I dont want to mention any deals in case I contradict anything you have said.

Are you looking after Lego ?
There is a lot of money to be made from them.

Regs

	17-03-2003 21:51									#7
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Here's the offer from Vondrak:

quote: Following our chat, here goes Legoland's trade proposal: 1) Legoland will sell Currency to GoW for 60 gold no later than on Turn 84. GoW will agree to not resell Currency to anybody else for 20 turns. 2a) Legoland will sell Construction and Republic to GoW for 190 gold on the turn Republic is available for trading. GoW will agree to not resell these techs to anybody else for 20 turns. 2b) Legoland will sell Construction to GoW for 190 gold one turn before Republic becomes available for trading. Legoland will gift Republic to GoW on the next turn for free. GoW will agree to not resell these two techs to anybody else for 20 turns. Choose whichever of 2a/2b suits you better. Respectfully, Radek aka vondrack President of Legoland

	19-03-2003 21:00									#8
	Got spare money?

Sorry guys. I am not able to devote as much time as I thought I would to this game. I am going to have to resign from being the Ambassador to Legoland. I am truly sorry for this.

	19-03-2003 21:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Sorry guys. I am not able to devote as much time as I thought I would to this game. I am going to have to resign from being the Ambassador to Legoland. I am truly sorry for this.

What happened?

I agreed to Legoland's offer (ND will split the cost with us).

From Vondrak:

quote: Hello, GhengisFarb! I will post your message in our forum. Though we will need to discuss for a wee while, letting you trade Curr and Constr to ND sounds like an option, if you sweeten the deal just a little bit... What about throwing in the contact to Voxes for free? We still lack that one - it's actually the last one we lack... We were supposed to get it anyway according to the 1300BC treaty, but it hasn't been a big deal so far, so we haven't pushed it... If we can get rid of it in this way.... However, we will not be able to allow you to trade Republic to ND, that I am sure of - sorry for that. As that tech is not "ours" (in the sense that we will not have it researched it by ourselves), we can do very little about it. Hope it will not be a major problem. I will get back to you ASAP. Cheers, Radek

In chat he agreed to allow us to trade Construction, but said he did not have the right to tell us we could trade Republic as Lego did not research it. In my opinion that means they also do not have the right to say we can't trade it.

	19-03-2003 22:00									#10
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good point.

Republic and Construction for 95 gold is NOT BAD at all.

	20-03-2003 01:12									#11
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Does anyone else want to become the ambassador to Legoland?

Who gave Lego Republic? RP, I think. They do not want to give anything to ND, and they have a probable alliance with Legoland.

	20-03-2003 02:23									#12
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Perhaps next week, assuming the SPDG actually wins the vote. Next month if we don't.

	20-03-2003 02:43									#13
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Why, when Lux is offering to trade us Mono for Construction? We need to quit giving away gold. It will cost us 80 gold each to upgrade our Horsemen. We need to horde all the gold we can.

Absolutely, from your post, it sounded like we had put the offer on the table, and hadn't recieved a response. Mono for Construction is a great deal!

Unfortunately, with the nowhore clauses, I'm concerned Lego will go 100% Science to Miltary Tradition.

	21-03-2003 20:19									#14
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From Vondrak:

quote: OK, here is the final treaty proposal - sorry for not sending it earlier... I hoped to have one more chat with you prior to sending it. But as what I want to discuss is basically independent from the treaty, here you are: GoW-Lego Currency/Construction/Republic trade treaty of 1100BC Legoland agrees to make the following deal with Glory of War: 1) Glory of War will provide Legoland with a free contact to Vox Controli immediately after ratifying this treaty. 2) Legoland will sell Currency to Glory of War for 60 gold no later than on Turn 84. GoW will be free to trade this technology to Neu Demogyptica, but nobody else. 3) Legoland will sell Construction and Republic to Glory of War for 190 gold on the turn Republic is available for trading. Glory of War agrees to not resell these techs to anybody else for 20 turns. Signed Radek aka vondrack The President of Legoland

In addition we are jointly working on deal to aquire Montheism from Vox.

	22-03-2003 01:31									#15
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so, is that treaty ratified by us? If this is the case, we can lock in a deal with Vox for monotheism, us giving them construction in 20 turns.

	22-03-2003 05:10									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 so, is that treaty ratified by us? If this is the case, we can lock in a deal with Vox for monotheism, us giving them construction in 20 turns.

Yes, both Togas and Vondrack are trying to get a better deal out of Vox for Montheism and have agreed to give Monotheism to us. But don't mention it to either of them as they are not aware I approached both to help offset the cost (each paying half leaves us paying squat).

	24-03-2003 18:53									#17
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Latest Proposal by Legoland;

quote: Hello, GhengisFarb! Sorting out our valid treaties, I have realized that I still have no "signed" version of our Curr+Constr+Rep trade agreement. It's most likely my fault, because I apparently forgot to send you the revised/final wording, incorporating the clause allowing you to provide Construction to ND. Accept my apologies, please - here goes the final trade agreement: quote: GoW-Lego Trade Agreement of 1050BC (Curr+Constr+Rep) 1) Legoland agrees to sell Currency to GoW for 60 gold no later than on Turn 84. GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Currency to anybody else for 20 turns. 2) Legoland agrees to sell Construction and Republic to GoW for 190 gold on the turn Republic is available for trading. GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Republic to anybody else for 20 turns. GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Construction to anyone else, but Neu Demogyptica, for 20 turns. On behalf of Legoland: vondrack, The President I have left out the Vox contact part - it has been part of the previous treaty anyway, plus it has already been gifted... Hope it's okay - if not, just add it, please. Best regards, Radek aka vondrack The President of Legoland P.S.: you were right about the Germans... they eventually turned our proposal regarding Currency down. Weird folks... IMHO, it was a win-win deal... nevermind...

	24-03-2003 19:28									#18
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So, after getting Construction & Currency, are we in the middle ages? Or do we need another tech? After we do get in the middle ages, we of course can't get monotheism directly from Vox (unless something drastic happens diplomatically). Maybe we can broker a deal with a neutral team (ie. Legoland). ND researches feudalism (Us saving $$); and then give to us. We then research Chivalry (ND saving $$). Trade that, upgrade, then go make war!

PS- anyone know which year turn 84 is?

	24-03-2003 22:22									#19
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New offer by Vondrak:

quote: OK, here goes yet another draft of our deal. Make sure you read it carefully, please, I rephrased the whole part about Construction and Republic to be more precise. I have put 10 turns of no-whoring for both Currency & Construction, but kept 20 turns for Republic - that is what we will most likely have to guarantee to GS to strike the deal with them. If we are able to get better terms from GS, we shall adjust that part of our deal accordingly. quote: GoW-Lego Trade Agreement of 1050BC (Curr+Constr+Rep) 1) Legoland agrees to sell Currency to GoW for 60 gold no later than on Turn 84 (so that GoW receives it - due to the playing order - no later than on its Turn 85). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Currency to anybody else for 10 turns. 2) Legoland agrees to sell Construction to GoW for the sum of 95 gold one turn before acquiring Republic (due to the playing order, GoW will receive the technology on the same term as Legoland acquires Republic). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Construction to anyone else, but Neu Demogyptica, for 10 turns. 3) Legoland agrees to sell Republic to GoW for the sum of 95 gold on the turn it acquires this technology (due to the playing order, GoW will receive the technology only on the following turn). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Republic to anybody else for 20 turns. On behalf of Legoland: vondrack, The President I realized that by strictly coupling Construction and Republic, you would receive it 1 turn later than optimal. Therefore, I split that part into two, so that you would receive Construction on the same turn as other teams (on the turn we will receive Republic from GS). I have not spent too much time pondering about how to split the payment... if there is a problem with 95+95, just change it - not a big deal. Regards, Radek aka vondrack The President of Legoland

	30-03-2003 04:19									#20
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Current signed agreement, Vondrak insinuated we may get Currency and Construction next turn:

quote: GoW-Lego Trade Agreement of 950BC (Curr+Constr+Rep) 1) Legoland agrees to sell Currency to GoW for 60 gold no later than on Turn 83 (so that GoW receives it - due to the playing order - no later than on its Turn 84). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Currency to anybody else for 10 turns. 2) Legoland agrees to sell Construction to GoW for the sum of 95 gold one turn before acquiring Republic (due to the playing order, GoW will receive the technology on the same term as Legoland acquires Republic). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Construction to anyone else, but Neu Demogyptica, for 10 turns. 3) Legoland agrees to sell Republic to GoW for the sum of 95 gold on the turn it acquires this technology (due to the playing order, GoW will receive the technology only on the following turn). GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift Republic to anybody else for 20 turns. On behalf of Legoland: vondrack, The President

New term: "SHARING".

Gift: to give something to another team without getting something in return.

Trade: trading something to another team for something else.

Sell/Resell: selling a something to another team for gold.

Share: aquiring something with the assistance of another team.

We have combined gold with ND to purchase this tech deal and "share" the techs. We are not giving them techs as they joint purchased them. We are not reselling them as they joint purchased them. We are not trading them as we are not receiving anything in trade.

Talk about walking a narrow line.

	31-03-2003 04:21									#21
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Talk about walking a narrow line.

Togas would be proud...

On another note, Lego is going to be loaded after this. Watch them for a tech lead.

	31-03-2003 04:23									#22
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Togas would be proud... On another note, Lego is going to be loaded after this. Watch them for a tech lead.

You ain't kidding. Fortunately they shouldn't be getting anymore techs from goodie huts.

	31-03-2003 18:14									#23
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From Lego:

quote: Hello, GhengisFarb! I have missed playing the turn for Lego by just minutes this morning... and when I checked the "turn played" save Zargon emailed me, I found - to my horror - out he only "sent" you Republic, without "accepting" it on our side. I am terribly sorry for this, he must have forgotten about that our treaty expressly stated you're supposed to actually receive it on this turn. If you planned switching to Republic immediately and this causes a problem to you, be so kind and propose some kind of a balance (probably in gold?) to offset you for the losses inflicted by our mistake. I just hate not keeping promises. Again, accept my deepest apologies for what happened. Best regards, vondrack

	01-04-2003 03:38									#24
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Well....they did screw us on the CoL trade that we did.

We gave them a damn good trade to get them up to date in tech, but accidently sold them CoL when we did not have the authority to do so. They were very unforgiving when we asked if we could someway change our deal.

We should remind them of this, ask for 50 gold (thats only 2 barbarian encampments) then say we are even

	11-04-2003 02:09									#25
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Deal that Lego proposed:

We give:
-Feudalism
-Chivalry

They give:
-Theology
-Education

They give us Theology when they get it.
We trade Feud + Chiv for Education when we have them.
We agree not to build Sistine or Bach; they agree not to build Leo's.

	03-05-2003 02:32									#26
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Vondrack wants to know about the deal.

vondrack|working> hi!
vondrack|working> you are from GoW, do I remember it correctly?
Panzer32> yes
Panzer32> your'e from Lego, right?
Panzer32> you want to speak about something?
vondrack|working> sorry, missed your response
vondrack|working> yes, about the deal we talked about
vondrack|working> Theo+Edu for Feu+Chiv
vondrack|working> was there any decison made on your side?
vondrack|working> we haven't heard from you since then
Panzer32> I thought we had accepted... but I guess not
Panzer32> I'll tell MasterZen
vondrack|working> well, maybe "internally" )
vondrack|working> but we were never told
vondrack|working> I would appreciate that
vondrack|working> is MZ the man to talk to now?
Panzer32> yeah. he replaced me as Consul of Foreign Affairs.
vondrack|working> I think I heard GF is RL busy
vondrack|working> aha
vondrack|working> that should be easy then - I often meet him in the ISDG room
Panzer32> yeah. GF got called to active service in the army
vondrack|working> thanks for the hint
vondrack|working> oh, less civ for him
vondrack|working> ok then - if you can point it out in your forum that there was no deal finalized, just "pre-agreed upon"
vondrack|working> that would be great

Last edited by Panzer32 on 03-05-2003 at 07:31

	03-05-2003 06:49									#27
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I'm fairly sure we accepted the offer via pm.

	03-05-2003 07:33									#28
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well, they must not have got it. just send it again.

	03-05-2003 07:38									#29
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I'll probably see Vondrack tomorrow morning in the ISDG chat, I can tell him then

	14-05-2003 05:41									#30
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ZargonX brought the issue up again. Unless anyone says anything idffernt, I will say an "official" yes to him next time I see him on the chat.

quote: [23:47] [ZargonX] Hey MZ, have a moment for some PTWDG business? [23:47] [MasterZen] sure go ahead [23:47] [ZargonX] Long ago, before the world crashed, Vondrack and I had worked up a deal with Panzer and GF for a tech swap [23:48] [ZargonX] since all this time has gone by, we never really confirmed it [23:48] [ZargonX] wanted to re-raise the issue and see if we could firm things up [23:48] [MasterZen] go ahead [23:48] [ZargonX] ok, the deal we had worked out was... [23:48] [ZargonX] Theology for Feudalism and Education for Chivarly... [23:48] [ZargonX] with the timing being.. [23:49] [ZargonX] Theo for Feu one turn before Edu for Chiv [23:49] [ZargonX] (due to the prerequsites) [23:50] [ZargonX] Panzer had told us it was "unofficially" accepted [23:50] [ZargonX] but I figured we should probably confirm things with the new FAM [23:52] [MasterZen] ok [23:53] [ZargonX] excellent! [23:53] [MasterZen] sounds allright [23:53] [MasterZen] I should discuss it though with them a bit [23:53] [ZargonX] of course [23:53] [MasterZen] I see no problems though, sounds like a good deal [23:53] [ZargonX] yes, I think it would be of benefit to all involved [23:53] [MasterZen] btw, why Edu and not engineering? [23:54] [ZargonX] I'm not sure, but I vaguely remember Panzer telling us you were getting Eng from a different source [23:55] [MasterZen] ok, I don't know all the deals they made before I was FAM [23:55] [ZargonX] but of course. That chat was so long ago I barely remember the details... [23:55] [ZargonX] But, I'll PM you the official text of the deal for approval [23:55] [MasterZen] yes, that would be best [23:55] [ZargonX] will do! [23:56] [ZargonX] nice to have things rolling again