08-02-2003 04:46									#1
	USA Patriot Act: The Sequel Tired of ads?

From the Center for Public Integrity (slow link at the moment):
Justice Dept. Drafts Sweeping Expansion of Anti-Terrorism Act

quote: (WASHINGTON, Feb. 7, 2003) -- The Bush Administration is preparing a bold, comprehensive sequel to the USA Patriot Act passed in the wake of September 11, 2001, which will give the government broad, sweeping new powers to increase domestic intelligence-gathering, surveillance and law enforcement prerogatives, and simultaneously decrease judicial review and public access to information. ... The bill, drafted by the staff of Attorney General John Ashcroft and entitled the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, has not been officially released by the Department of Justice, although rumors of its development have circulated around the Capitol for the last few months under the name of “the Patriot Act II” in legislative parlance. ... [my favorite part] Section 501, “Expatriation of Terrorists”: This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated “if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a ‘terrorist organization’.” But whereas a citizen formerly had to state his intent to relinquish his citizenship, the new law affirms that his intent can be “inferred from conduct.” Thus, engaging in the lawful activities of a group designated as a “terrorist organization” by the Attorney General could be presumptive grounds for expatriation. [my emphasis] ... [Dr. David Cole, Georgetown University Law professor and author of Terrorism and the Constitution] found it disturbing that there have been no consultations with Congress on the draft legislation. “It raises a lot of serious concerns and is troubling as a generic matter that they have gotten this far along and tell people that there is nothing in the works. What that suggests is that they’re waiting for a propitious time to introduce it, which might well be when a war is begun. At that time there would be less opportunity for discussion and they’ll have a much stronger hand in saying that they need these right away.”

A watershed event, I believe: do we continue along this path to its conclusion, or do we turn back?

	08-02-2003 05:01									#2
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It will be interesting to see what happens if and when this comes up for debate in Congress. Opposition to the original PATRIOT Act (my blood still boils at the vile name of that piece of trash) is growing on both sides of the aisle. The question will be if the same cynical use of patriotism and fear of terrorism that allowed the first bill to pass can be strong enough 18 months later to pass this second piece of garbage.

	08-02-2003 06:01									#3
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Damn Damn Damn!

	08-02-2003 06:03									#4
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We have nothing to fear. Bush would never do this.

	08-02-2003 06:10									#5
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So any ideas on what country you would like to be exiled to, Che? Cuba has the nice weather thing going...

	08-02-2003 06:13									#6
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Cuba is waaaaayyyyy to close to the US for my liking. I'd be sipping mojitos and the next thin I know is that some U.S. marine would be standing over me, with his bayonette in my gut.

I think I'd probably head to a more civilized part of the planet, like Europe.

	08-02-2003 06:14									#7
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So, now do you believe us. The Reichstag is burning baby.

	08-02-2003 06:27									#8
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Can I see the actual text language of the draft that would allow citizens to be arbitrarily sent into exile?

	08-02-2003 06:28									#9
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Follow the link.

	08-02-2003 06:29									#10
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What happened? Did we get framed again?

	08-02-2003 06:31									#11
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That's a huge file and it being Friday Night I have to get ready soon to go out. Could someone else give the text of the draft. I really doubt they would actually do this... Even if the administration really was trying to get this passed, Congress would never pass this, and even if they did, such a thing would be blatantly unconstitutional.

	08-02-2003 06:33									#12
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The constitution wont mean **** to them if they can justify it by national security.

	08-02-2003 06:33									#13
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"They will never be able to go that far." -- some German in 1933.

	08-02-2003 06:36									#14
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Don't worry. Our Government is Trustworthy and would never use its Powers against us. This new bill is great!

	08-02-2003 06:37									#15
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Germany didn't have the same constitutional protections we do. I really can't imagine SCOTUS ever allowing this.

	08-02-2003 06:38									#16
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SCOTUS is in their pocket.

	08-02-2003 06:41									#17
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SH,

The constitution is like any other law. It only works if people follow it and its enforced.

	08-02-2003 06:48									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara SCOTUS is in their pocket.

SCOTUS is still independent. I don't see how any justice could think this law is within the bounds of the Constitution. And again I very much doubt this would pass Congress in the first place.

	08-02-2003 06:51									#19
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I'm telling you. Our Great Government already adequately enforces our Constitution. In fact, those liberals take too much advantage of it. Can't they understand that we need to curtail our liberties in this time of peril to defend freedom?

	08-02-2003 06:51									#20
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Can't wait for Patriot Act III.

I recoiled in horror when I learned Ashcroft was the Cabinet member left behind to rule the country in case everyone at the State of the Union address got killed. He was governor of my state for eight years, state attorney general for another eight, and a senator for six.

I'm sorry the rest of you have to endure the horror I've lived with my whole life.

	08-02-2003 06:51									#21
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If SCOTUS was independent, we'd be arguing about how horrible President Gore is right now.

	08-02-2003 06:55									#22
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So you are saying Bush v. Gore was ruled on because they were pressured in to making that ruling by external forces? I doubt the Clinton Administration would do that. They simply made a ruling you didn't like.

	08-02-2003 06:56									#23
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I don't know if the Center for Public Integrity (or Public-I as they call themselves) has a reputation for alarmism or over-reacting. So I guess it's possible that the situation isn't really this grim. Right. Maybe they're just misreading it...

But I do think that we're rapidly approaching a point (assuming we haven't already passed it) when our losses will become irretrievable.

Here's someone who thinks we haven't gone far enough:

N.C. congressman says internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II was appropriate

"Coble, chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security..."

	08-02-2003 07:00									#24
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"I don't know if the Center for Public Integrity (or Public-I as they call themselves) has a reputation for alarmism or over-reacting"

They seemed pretty leftist on their page, a bunch of shouting about corporations and privitization was there.

	08-02-2003 07:02									#25
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The fact is that they voted for Bush. So that should show that constitutional rights are not their first concern.

	08-02-2003 07:29									#26
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I am telling you guys!

Besides, why wouldn't SCOTUS vote for Bush? It just doesn't make sense.

	08-02-2003 07:50									#27
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All I gotta say is I know a whoooooole lot of red necks in this part of the country who are just gonna love this!

To all you punks in Washington....if you pass it, BRING YOUR $HIT ON!

That'd be grounds for reviving the Rebel Yell....

-=Vel=-

	08-02-2003 08:11									#28
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Rebels? Have them sent to Ashcroft.

All hail Ashcroft...Ashcroft is good for you...

	08-02-2003 08:23									#30
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Better yet, why don't we prepare a Suthern-Style welcome for the good Mista Ashcroft.

Send him on down with a copy of that "Patriot" $hite in-hand!

Bring it!

-=Vel=-