09-02-2003 03:52									#1
	Iraq, Zarqawi and the 'al-Qaeda link' Inflate your Upload Space

Iraq, both the parts controlled by Saddam and not controled by Saddm, has become a center which is being used by Al-Qaeda. From the BBC:

quote: American claims of a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda rest heavily on reports that a Jordanian al-Qaeda associate, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has been given a safe haven in Iraq. In his presentation to the United Nations Security Council on Wednesday, US Secretary of State Colin Powell alleged that members of Mr Zarqawi's group connected with al-Qaeda have been operating freely in Baghdad for more than eight months. Mr Powell said: "These al-Qaeda affiliates... now co-ordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for [Mr Zarqawi's] network." He said Mr Zarqawi, a young Jordanian of Palestinian descent, had operated al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan specialising in manufacturing poisons. He said that after the fall of the Taleban, Mr Zarqawi travelled to north-eastern Iraq, where he and his network helped establish another camp specialising in producing deadly poisons, including ricin. Mr Powell alleged that Mr Zarqawi's lieutenants were operating in a part of Iraq outside the control of Saddam Hussein but controlled by an Islamic group called Ansar al-Islam (Supporters of Islam). Iraq haven "Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organisation, Ansar al-Islam," Mr Powell told Security Council members. "In 2000 this agent offered al-Qaeda safe haven in the region. After we swept al-Qaeda from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven." The leader of Ansar, Mullah Krekar, has denied allegations linking his group with al-Qaeda or Saddam Hussein. Mr Zarqawi is also said to have sought and received medical treatment in Baghdad in May and June 2002 after being injured in the fighting in Afghanistan. His leg was amputated by a surgeon. He is also accused of masterminding the assassination of US diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman last October. Last December Jordanian authorities announced that two men believed to have been al-Qaeda operatives had confessed to killing the diplomat and that they had been directed by Mr Zarqawi. "From his terrorist network in Baghdad, Zarqawi can direct his network in the Middle East and beyond," Mr Powell told the Security Council. European bases Mr Zarqawi has also been sentenced to death in his own country for planning bombings. Also known as Ahmed al-Khalayleh, Mr Zarqawi is believed to have travelled extensively since the 11 September attacks, including in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon and Turkey. Mr Powell linked him with al-Qaeda operations in Europe, specifically mentioning France, Britain and Spain. According to previous Western intelligence reports, he is thought to have used London as his base until Osama Bin Laden ordered him to move to Afghanistan. In November last year, he was named by the head of the German secret service as a likely mastermind of any potential attacks.

	09-02-2003 04:00									#2
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Here is a picture of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi also known as Ahmed al-Khalayleh. He has been sentenced to death by the Jordanian government for masterminding the assassination of US diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman last October, however, Zarqawi fled across the border into Iraq where he is still believed to be hiding.

Zarqawi was a teacher in Al-Qeada's training camps in Afghanastan where he specialized in creating poison gases and chemical weapons including Ricin. Two Al-Qaeda opporatives captured by the Jordanian policy immediately after the assissination of Lawrence Foley freely admited being members of Al-Qaeda and later, during questioning, identified Zarqawi as the mastermind of the attack and said the entire opporation was planned by Zarqawi from his base in north-eastern Iraq.

Attachment: zaqarwi.jpg
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	09-02-2003 04:14									#3
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Yeah, they probably confessed to being on the grassy knoll, too.

	09-02-2003 04:17									#4
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People ask for information about the link and then ridicule information that is presented simply out of hand. Can you tell me why you distrust information from the Jordanian government? No one has made any accussations of torture or coersion.

	09-02-2003 04:21									#5
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Using the news search engine on CNN's web site I came up with this link. It contains a good compilation of information and news stories about Zarqawi and the possible Iraqi links to Al-Qaeda.

	09-02-2003 04:35									#6
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"All the current Abu Musab Zarqawi news," including "Showtimes." Hmmm...I'll pass.

So a couple of jerks, acting on orders from some other jerk, killed Foley. What does this have to do with Saddam Hussein?

quote: In his presentation to the United Nations Security Council on Wednesday, US Secretary of State Colin Powell alleged that members of Mr Zarqawi's group connected with al-Qaeda have been operating freely in Baghdad for more than eight months.

And Mohammed Atta operated freely in Florida. Your point?

	09-02-2003 05:10									#7
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem And Mohammed Atta operated freely in Florida. Your point?

Please don't bomb us!

	09-02-2003 05:22									#8
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem So a couple of jerks, acting on orders from some other jerk, killed Foley. What does this have to do with Saddam Hussein?

That the Iraqi government knows full well that the base exists, has provided free medical care for a high ranking Al-Qaeda member (Zarqawi), that they allow Al-Qaeda to continue using Iraq as a logistics base where they can plan and carry out attacks like the assassination of Mr. Foley.

quote: And Mohammed Atta operated freely in Florida. Your point?

Clem: As soon as it was discovered they were terrorists (admitably to late) steps were taken to try to arrest terrorists and other people trying to commit illegal acts. Iraq is actively promoting terrorist organizations by providing them with a base from which to plan, coordinate, and carry out terrorist attacks.

Can you really not tell the difference?

	09-02-2003 05:27									#9
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BTW for those of you still insisting there is no evidience Iraq possess chemical weapons and has been trying to hide them here is a recent article from the Free Press news service.

quote: Reasons U.S. should be concerned about Iraq February 6, 2003 Secretary of State Colin Powell cited the following as among the proof that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein is violating UN demands to disarm and is a threat: Iraq "bulldozed and graded to conceal chemical weapons evidence" at the Al Musayyib chemical complex in 2002, and had cargo vehicles and a decontamination vehicle moving around at the site. Powell said that was corroborated by a human source. Declassified satellite pictures showed 15 munitions bunkers, four of which Powell said had active chemical munitions inside. Satellites observed cleanup activities at nearly 30 suspected weapons sites in the days before inspectors arrived. An audiotape between senior Iraqi officials indicated Iraq possess a banned "modified vehicle," and had "evacuated everything" before a visit by weapons inspectors. An audiotape in which one Iraqi officer orders another to remove a reference to "nerve agents" in wireless communiques. Hussein has a committee to spy on weapons inspectors "and keep them from doing their jobs." A missile brigade outside Baghdad has disbursed rocket launchers and warheads containing biological warfare agents to remote locations in western Iraq. Hussein could have produced up to 25,000 liters of anthrax and has failed to account for organic materials that could be used to produce anthrax and other biological agents. Iraq possesses a fleet of mobile facilities used to produce and conduct research into biological agents. Other such facilities may be mounted on rail cars. Iraq has the ability to widely disperse such agents, including banned missiles with a range of more than 600 miles. At least 6,500 chemical bombs, including at least 550 artillery shells with mustard gas, from the Iran-Iraq war remain unaccounted for. In 1995, Hussein initiated a crash program to build a crude nuclear weapon. He now has nuclear scientists and a bomb design and is thought to be trying to acquire fissile material. Hussein has made repeated covert attempts to acquire high-specification aluminum tubes that can be used as centrifuges for enriching uranium. Iraq harbors a terrorist network headed by Abu Musab Zarqawi, an associate and collaborator of Osama bin Laden. From Free Press news services

	09-02-2003 05:37									#10
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I still contend that World Trade Center 1 (1993) was sponsored by Iraq.

http://www.spiritoftruth.org/post_009.htm

**** if I was Saddam, I'd be doing everything I could to get back America.

	09-02-2003 05:45									#11
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BTW Powell specifically mentioned Zarqawi by name when refering to the recent attempts to use Ricin gas in western Europe. Zarqawi used to teach Al-Qaeda opporatives in Afghanastan how to mass produce poison gas and how to use it most effectively.

This is a dangerous man. If he had a hand in planning the foiled Ricin attack in Europe then you can hardly say the Al-Qaeda base in Iraq isn't a threat. In deed if Iraq doesn't support Al-Qaeda or Zarqawi's terrorist plans then why don't they turn him over as the Jordanian and U.S. governments have requested?

	09-02-2003 06:04									#12
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Here's a quote from Bush's speech today (for the full report go to CNN here)

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have," Bush said. "

It looks like the lefties are going to get their smoking gun when Saddam launches bio weapons into Israel, Turkey, and Kuwait.

	09-02-2003 06:14									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It looks like the lefties are going to get their smoking gun when Saddam launches bio weapons into Israel, Turkey, and Kuwait.

As I've repeatedly said, I don't care whether Iraq has WoMD. The US has repeatedly used these weapons in every war since WWII. Napalm is a chem weapon. Agent Orange is a chem weapon. Depleted Uranium is a radiological weapon. Swine fever (which the US introduced into Cuba in the 1970s) is a bioweapon. Thrip scales are a bio weapon, which the US sprayed into Cuba in the 1990s.

In this war, the US will use DU weapons. DU is exceedingly poisonous. People will be digging these bullets up for thousands of years. It will contaminate ground water, it will contaminate the earth. When they strike targets they burn and contaminate the air.

Iraq has been contained. Let it go, you war-mongers.

	09-02-2003 07:00									#14
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Oerdin, you remember that part of Powell's speech where he talks about the training camp in Iraq?

quote: When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp, and this camp is located in Northeastern Iraq. You see a picture of this camp. [Graphic, above.] The network is teaching its operative how to produce ricin and other poisons.

If what Powell says is true, then here's a question: why haven't we bombed that camp?

We've been bombing Iraq for years, we fried a carload of guys in Yemen because we could, we've made it clear we're going after terrorists wherever they are, etc, etc.

But in the meantime, here's a camp that we know of, and it's producing ricin, and we haven't leveled it?

In fact, Powell was asked about this very matter by some Congressmen on Friday. His response: he didn't want to answer in "open session."

Kinda says it all.

	09-02-2003 07:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem Oerdin, you remember that part of Powell's speech where he talks about the training camp in Iraq?

I haven't said anything about training camps in Iraq. I did say several opporatives are working out of a town in northwestern Iraq and using it as a logisitical base. Supposedly there are only a few Al-Qaeda guys mixed in with the regular villagers so bombing the town doesn't seem like the best course of action. The best thing would be for the Iraqi police to arrest Zarqawi and friends as the Jordanian's have requested.

	09-02-2003 07:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara As I've repeatedly said, I don't care whether Iraq has WoMD. The US has repeatedly used these weapons in every war since WWII. Napalm is a chem weapon. Agent Orange is a chem weapon. Depleted Uranium is a radiological weapon. Swine fever (which the US introduced into Cuba in the 1970s) is a bioweapon. Thrip scales are a bio weapon, which the US sprayed into Cuba in the 1990s. In this war, the US will use DU weapons. DU is exceedingly poisonous. People will be digging these bullets up for thousands of years. It will contaminate ground water, it will contaminate the earth. When they strike targets they burn and contaminate the air. Iraq has been contained. Let it go, you war-mongers.

The swine fever thing is enitrely new to me. Do you have a link? Also there has been alot of histarical reporting about the use of depleted uramium armor piercing rounds and possible long term side effects. So far there hasn't been any long term studies show a link between the very low levels of radiation found in an armor piercing round and any ill health effects. The amount of radiation is close to the background level of radiation and I sure got a worse dose working as a geologist using soil density probes. If you've ever gotten a chest x-ray you've recieved much higher doses then anything in a DU round.

Agent Orange was one of those "Damned if you do & damned if you don't sort of cases". If they didn't use the defoliant then the VC would have continued to rack up big kill rates by ambushing along supply routes where as if you did use it there would be some vietnamese getting sick 10-20 years down the line. They choice to save lives now and worry about the the effects of AO latter, besides, if the communists weren't trying to invade and conquor the capitalist south then there wouldn't have been any war to begin with. Would there have been?

BTW neither DU or napal nor AO are WoMD. You are right that it is unfair for the west to possess WoMD and not allow others to do the same but that's just life. As far as most people are concerned the fewer the number who have WoMD the safer the world is especially if we keep WoMD out of the hands of tin pot dictators.

	09-02-2003 19:49									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I haven't said anything about training camps in Iraq.

I know. Powell said it. He told us about this big ol' terra camp, oogedy boogedy boogedy...isn't that scary!...

...but for some reason we're just letting it sit there. Yeah, right.

I've said earlier that at least in theory, I could sign on to this war if the administration would stop insulting people's intelligence when they present reasons for it. Still waiting.

The swine flu story has been public for more than 25 years.

quote: Agent Orange was one of those "Damned if you do & damned if you don't sort of cases". If they didn't use the defoliant then the VC would have continued to rack up big kill rates by ambushing along supply routes where as if you did use it there would be some vietnamese getting sick 10-20 years down the line. They choice to save lives now and worry about the the effects of AO latter, besides, if the communists weren't trying to invade and conquor the capitalist south then there wouldn't have been any war to begin with. Would there have been?

Saddam's use of poison gas was actually a humanitarian act. By ruthlessly killing as many people as possible, he might drive the Iranians out of the war, and quickly put down any possible revolt among the Kurds. So he was actually saving lives in the long run.

Jesus H Christ, you take the cake...

	09-02-2003 23:30									#18
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Powell has never said anything about terror camps either. Why don't you read a few of the reports and then maybe you won't have these kind of misconceptions.

	09-02-2003 23:44									#19
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you trust the Jordanian government?

Hey Striker, do you were an aluminum foil cap to prevent mind reading?

	10-02-2003 00:03									#21
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Sava: Reportedly the information has been confirmed by other sources. I see no reason to at least take the claim at face value.

	10-02-2003 00:04									#22
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Your "justifications"... they are getting pitiful


Ming -- > Why this thread isn't closed yet?
I thought we had enough of Iraq-threads on the 1st page?

	10-02-2003 00:06									#23
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Can you please tell us why you object?

	10-02-2003 00:12									#24
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The ideological differences between the two factions are so great, that I
need to see some heavy evidence myself before I'll believe it.

If someone would say that feminist lesbians from Mexico are behind the
Catholic priest -scandals in US, would you believe it without proper evidence?

	10-02-2003 00:16									#25
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So it comes down to you will always attack the source if you don't like what it says. I see now that no amount of proof will ever be enough for you; you are simply rapped so tightly in your ideology that you are unable to accept even the possibility of it being wrong.

BTW this thread is two days old so if any thread needs to be closed it should be the newer ones.

	10-02-2003 00:30									#26
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quote: I see now that no amount of proof will ever be enough for you; you are simply rapped so tightly in your ideology that you are unable to accept even the possibility of it being wrong.

Great, just great. You got it
Just look at all the evidence you have provided to me.
Only fools and terrorists refuse to understand them.

	10-02-2003 00:43									#27
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I didn't say you had to believe it but providing some clear logical arguements before rejecting it out of hand would be nice. Let us review the some total of your posts shall we?

quote: Your "justifications"... they are getting pitiful

You must admite you haven't exactly been a paragon of enlightened discourse. How about a refrence to any of the half dozen different posts or links I've provided?

	10-02-2003 05:40									#28
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Here's more on that camp in northern Iraq:

Journalists visit Iraq 'chemical weapons site'

Here in the US, I'm sure this will be the lead story in all of tomorrow's papers.

Not.

	10-02-2003 06:45									#29
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I expect that Saddam Hussein has other terrosit proxies that he to Al-Qaeda. Something with a lower profile and not Wahabbist.

	10-02-2003 10:13									#30
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Clem: Thanks for the link it was very interesting. It does show that the base isn't still being used to produce chemical weapons but the grading and military cleen up crews which proceeded the journalists being taking to the location is some what suspecious. Don't you think?