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Lefty Scaevola
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San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
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Myrmidonian
Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 11-02-2003 at 08:35
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Comrade Tassadar
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American:
Big, strong, powerful.....but with one weakness that will kill him.
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
This is inspired by Markos' insistence that Greeks didn't view Alexander's Macedonians as a separate nationality. R'lyeh, Athenians even viewed Spartans as a different nationality. |
The latter statement is misleading, the Athenians viewed the Spartans (and the Thebans, Corinthians, etc.) as non-Athenians, they certainly didn't view them as non-Greeks.
Both Plato and Aristotle recognise that there was a popular division between "Hellenes" and "Barbaroi"; the Macedonians are a hard case, but were regarded by most Greeks as foreigners. As far as I know the Macedonians didn't compete at the Olympic games which is for many people the distinguishing mark of the Hellenes.
Read Demosthenes anyway, he didn't like them bleedin' foreigners much....
The term "Hellenes" isn't even used in the Iliad (if I remember correctly). The terms used to describe Agamemnon, Menelaus and their allies were "Argives", "Danaans" and "Achaeans".
Interestingly, the historical evidence points to the Iliad being based on a factual Trojan war with the dispute arising over a piece of stolen religious statuary. I went to a really good guest lecture about this last year. The last I heard the "Greeks" in that war were most likely to have come from Rhodes. So if Achilles existed he was probably from there.
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axi
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Athens Greece
Sep 1999
time: 07:25
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OK, now this is a personal question!
My first name is Achilles you see. I was named after my grandfather (who was christened in 1901 himself) who was given this name because he was born in the village Palaiokastro of Fthia, near the origins of the river Spercheios. The myth says that Achilles had his capital in that region, at the origins of Spercheios. I do not know if there are any ruins there, but probably the locals had found unidentified ancient ruins, which they supposed they had to be the ruins of Achilles palace. I have gone there once, but I heard nothing about this. 100 years ago, the Greeks were undergoing a nationalist phase and all ancient names were in vogue I guess.
So what does this make Achilles? He would describe himself as Myrmidon, I'm sure. And after that, he would say he was Achaean.
Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians came after the Achaeans and the Pelasgians were there before them. Incidentally, Fthia, the place of origin of both the mythical Achilles and myself, has plenty of Pelasgian ruins, chiefly the mysterious "pyramids". There is even a town named Pelasgia there nowdays.
We were not naming ourselves Hellenes until the time of Hesiod (who told the tale of Elli, the base of the myths about the origins of the Hellenes) and Homer, which was the 8th century B.C.
B.t.w. The guy in my avatar is Achille Talon, a French cartoon by Greg. Talon is a bachelor, a scholar, an amateur adventurer and lifes, where else, in Paris...
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Static Universe
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Hes's not from Mycenae because Agememnon is from there.
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Apolyton Time is 00:25. |
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10-02-2003 23:01
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