11-02-2003 19:01									#1
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OK, this is the last of the official, topped ministerial threads. I have arranged with redstar1 for some kind of a comprehensive intelligence report to be posted here later today or tomorrow... we have had several good chats with RPers, learning a lot about developments over there on their landmass.

The following applies to all ministerial threads, but I will say it just here: I believe it would be fine to start new threads for clearly defined discussions (like the GLh deal with RPers we considered some time ago), linking to them from the appropriate ministerial thread, leaving the "general" ministerial threads for kinda "general" discussions. Let's see if it works...

And now, fellow Legomen... welcome redstar1, bringing us the latest and greatest news from abroad!

	11-02-2003 20:30									#2
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WORLD FACTBOOK, 900BC

GOW
- Despotism
- their land is stretching from Mistery Island in the west to Cape Vox, throughout the entire northern part of Bob
- have 10 cities, 2 of them on Mistery Island; 6 of them are located on hills
- coastal cities: 3 on Bob + 2 on Mistery Island
- Capital is not coastal, it is building a Great Wonder prebuild.
- militarily average, preparing for their UU
- researching Feudalism
- known resources: wines (5), spices(1), horses(1)
- missing key resources: iron
- opportunistic, but good trading partners

ND
- Despotism
- located in the Central part of Bob, between GOW and RP, separated from RP by a vast jungle.
- 8 cities, 4 of them on hills
- coastal cities: one
- militarily strong
- researching Currency
- known resources: spices(3), horses(2), iron(2)
- starting to fall back in research, because of their passive tech trading policy
- fair, but passive trading partners

GS
- Republic
- located in southern Estonia
- researching Feudalism
- formed by outstanding civ3 players, this is their main advantage and disadvantage; they are too conceited
- opportunistic rather than fair trading partner

RP
- Monarchy
- located in southern Bob, they have a lot of good land
- 6 cities, only the capital being built on hills
- strongest military in the world; presumably preparing for a war (not known whether only defensively or ... ?)
- researching Engineering ?
- known resources: sillks(3), iron(1), horses(1)
- keen diplomats; they like to manipulate others

LUX
- eliminated

VOX
- Despotism
- located in northern Estonia, very close to Bob (over a 1-tile strait)
- smallest civ
- their attempt to settle on Bob was pushed back by the Bobian civs
- based on some reports, they might try it again, this time backed by a considerable military force
- reportedly blocking GS expansion on Estonia by holding a single-tile chokepoint
- researching Engineering on 10%
- poor research potential

EDIT: additional info and clarifications edited in by vondrack
EDIT: Updated the info, Nimitz
edit: Updated by Tiberius in 900BC

Last edited by Tiberius on 04-04-2003 at 00:26

	11-02-2003 20:31									#3
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Any additions, corrections greatly received.

	12-02-2003 09:13									#4
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GoW has ignored my attempts at contact. I'm thinking about just trying to ambush one of them in the chat room. I'll let you know if I make any breakthroughs...

	14-02-2003 08:44									#5
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Well Lux is nearing war with ND.

	15-02-2003 09:05									#6
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Hey what would you guys think of renting workers to RP?

	15-02-2003 09:27									#7
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As in selling them to RP, who promise to later sell them back?

I'm not sure about the idea, but I think it might not work even if we want to. I've sometimes not been able to sell workers to the AI in my games, and I think you can only sell workers when you both have a city on the same continent. So unless we build a city over on their continent, I doubt we can trade workers anytime soon.

	15-02-2003 09:31									#8
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Nope I'm tlaking farrying them over there and working there tiles for a price of course.

	15-02-2003 09:59									#9
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Ah. Well, assuming safe ocean travel (IE no suicide galleys)... maybe later in the game, say, middle ages. But I'd vote against ancient age worker renting.

	15-02-2003 12:22									#10
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Hmmm, interesting idea. I would not oppose it once we are well established on our own continent (middle medieval?). At that time, especially if we end up building The Pyramids, I would certainly consider that. But that is so far away from now...

	15-02-2003 21:28									#11
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I've been ask to make a list of whats ok to say by ambassadors so hear it is.

Ok to Speak about :

• All tech we have got before Republic
  
• Everything the other civ say is ok to pass on
  
• To check if a deal can be made
  
• Anything you get an ok from the F.A.M. or President to speak about
  

Last edited by Nimitz on 28-03-2003 at 00:01

	21-02-2003 21:15									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

In order to document the recent discussions with Lux I will put a summary in this post:

Vondrack (& co) had a couple of interesting discussions with Trip over Lux's current position. Basically ND appear to be much to strong for Lux to be able to defend themselves and as such Trip is considering moving the Lux empire to somewhere else. It has been discussed that we might allow them to use Legos Minor, but with stringent controls over the security of Legos Major, our homeland. The exact details of any such plan are being discussed and of course time is a great consideration. We will be ready to go naval fairly soon but Trip estimates they will not have a galley for at least 20 turns. Including the time taken to actually reach the suspected crossing point, and then reach Legos Minor, we are talking at the very least 40 turns.

	23-02-2003 20:32									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well if you need a abassador, I can step in.

	02-03-2003 03:00									#14
	Foriegn Policy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is just a draft it will not be complete till this is gone.

Please offer any advise or critic on it, all is appertiated.

General Policy
Speak softly and Carry a big stick

GOW
Are not to be trusted can make immediate tech trades, but no long term alliances, good friends when having common interest

ND
To be done.

GS
To be done.

RP
Be very careful around RP on what's said, make no solid offers without consultation, watch carefully what is said by them and if doing a deal, pin them down - don't allow them to wiggle.

LUX
To be done.
EDIT by vondrack:
My impression from the many discussions I have had with Trip is that he feels quite bitter about how other teams treated LI. Every single other team but us has already played a dirty trick on him. If we treat him fair, I am quite sure we will have a great ally on our side. My suggestion regarding LI would be to be generous and fair to them. We have little to lose and lot to gain that way.

VOX
To be done.

Last edited by Nimitz on 04-03-2003 at 23:02

	02-03-2003 05:58									#15
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about ND, I have gotten a pm back from them that just says how I can get a hold of their abassador. They only problem is they never seem to be online thus I cannot get a hold of them. Right now I am not at my house so I cannot get a hold of him right now, but their ambassador is not online anyways.

	13-03-2003 04:07									#16
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Any news about the proposed treaties with GoW or GS ?
The save will be soon with us and we don't know what to research !

	13-03-2003 09:53									#17
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Ok I am going to set up a meating with ND abassador, I finally found a time when we are both online and I can talk to him. Is there anything of improtance you wish for me to relay??

	13-03-2003 10:04									#18
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Since we're considering researching Currency, it would be nice to know when ND expects to finish their own research on it. Unfortunately, there's not really a way to find that out without revealing that we're considering going for it, and they're sure to clam up then. But maybe you could ask what they expect to charge for it. That would affect our decision too, and who knows, maybe they'll let something slip.

	13-03-2003 10:26									#19
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Ok, we show up as having an "average" military compared to ND. Not too bad, I'd say. I'd like to contact the RPers so we can see how we compare to them. If they have a very strong military, we know something is brewing...

Anyway, my vote would be for currency, as we are more likely to be able to trade it with others than ND is, judging my continental tensions.

Finally, I had been mulling whether we should publicly declare our policy of attacking anyone who tries to settle our island, but I think we should hold off until it actually comes up. People may think us isolationist and arrogant, and band together to take us on. We certainly don't want that!

	18-03-2003 22:54									#20
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Just so you guys know I am metting with the ND abasador today. I wanted to talk to him and I finally got a time set aside. I will let you know what happens and such.

	20-03-2003 12:15									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As discussed in the chatroom last evening with Pres. Vondrack and FA Nimitz, I apply for the position of ambassador to Vox Controli. After the official approval/nomination from the FA, I'll send a PM to the Voxes, hopefully having their contact too, until then.

I'd like to establish a general outline now, about what should I discuss/propose to them. Schedule a chat, or propose directly the monotheism treaty?

	20-03-2003 13:49									#22
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The only advice I could offer at this time is to be extremely wary when speaking with Vox regarding GS. We still do not know what the relationship between the two is.

	29-03-2003 19:06									#23
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Anyone asked himself what could be the treaty like between the GoW and Vox? I don't think that Voxes has sold the city purely for money (+peace, of course). It must be something else. What could that be? An alliance against ND?

I admit it is purely speculation, but there might exist a conspiration as follows:

1. Vox gives GoW their Bob city
2. Vox provides GoW iron at the proper time (to upgrade their horses)
3. Both teams build a powerful military (Vox building a fleet and navigating close to the ND border, being ready to land with their immortals)
3. They both attack ND in the same time with Riders and Immortals, trying to cut off ND's resources (especially iron and horses) and supply lines
4. GoW keeps most of ND's cities
5. GoW gives West Witllich back to Vox and Vox is granted the right to settle eastern Bob.

The RP may or may not be involved.

The GoW is desperate to take ND's iron, the Voxes are desperate to gain more land, they both lose if they don't use their special units (especially Vox, who doesn't have much time left), so it seems logical to me.
This is how I would do it.
Is it possible that none of them did consider this scenario?

	04-04-2003 00:29									#24
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World Factbook updated with 900BC data.
If you can remember anything else, please feel free to edit it.

	04-04-2003 04:29									#25
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Tiberius,

Re: your speculation on the GoW-Vox city "trade" - oddly enough I hadn't read your post and was speculating in the Lego chatroom and came to many of the same conclusions...

A deal such as that would truly benefit both sides, even more so with ND apparently falling behind in tech.

Last edited by Sharpe on 04-04-2003 at 04:34

	29-05-2003 00:19									#26
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With my recent change in office, I have decided that it is probably for the best that I step down from my position as ambassador to GoW. We have important negotiations coming up with them soon, and serving a dual-role as Pres. and Amb. would make negotiating trickier, as anything I said may be taken as official team policy rather than just regular chatter. Is there anyone willing to step up to this post?

	02-06-2003 09:10									#27
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Right, we seem to be in need of redoing our ambassadorial system...

Tiberius has Vox Controli.
redstar1 has Gathering Storm, but is offline for few weeks.
ZargonX had Glory of War, but needs a replacement.
Jack_www... errr... whatever, we need someone to handle Neu Demogyptica.
And I suppose, Nimitz will handle RPers (though our relations could certainly benefit from more frequent contacts).

I can fill in whenever there is need, especially with GoW and RPers, as their members often lurk in the ISDG lobby, and with Voxes, thanks to my close relation with BetaHound. But for example Neu Demogyptica simply calls for a dedicated ambassador - any volunteers?

	02-06-2003 12:58									#28
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Well no, to be fair I get online easy enough at work and I can check mail etc with Dial-up so I'm still 'active'.... can't estimate whent he server might be back up though. That ones a bit tricky

	02-06-2003 13:57									#29
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 Well no, to be fair I get online easy enough at work and I can check mail etc with Dial-up so I'm still 'active'.... can't estimate whent he server might be back up though. That ones a bit tricky

Ah, great, I completely forgot about you being able to connect from work. Silly me... which makes us short by one ambassador less, fortunately.

	02-06-2003 17:42									#30
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quote: And I suppose, Nimitz will handle RPers (though our relations could certainly benefit from more frequent contacts).

If you want me to talk them more you should just tell me, I thought we were still at the angry so we don't speak much phase.