01-08-2004 21:08									#181
	Legopolis build queue 1080AD to 1230AD Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Legopolis
I've been toying with Legopolis a bit today. Legopolis would generate (81-2=79)spt/0fpt at pop 20, which is totally suboptimal. One possibility would be to build a courthouse and a police station, hopefully making it (81-1=80)spt/0fpt, which would allow 1t arty/fighters.

However, I am not sure if CH+PS would guarantee that missing shield, plus we would have to pay 1+2=3gpt maintenance - I believe we better build a hydro plant here ASAP, bringing the city to ~105spt... which means we'll be able to spit 1t bombers/tanks from here easily (I'd prefer bombers, as the city does not have barracks).

Timeline
1140AD: Intelligence Agency completed
-------: one iRRigated tile mined
-------: population boosted to 19 (->81spt/-1fpt)
-------: 1t artillery production started
1150AD: artillery completed
1160AD: artillery completed
1170AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the earliest)
-------: artillery completed
1180AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the latest)
-------: artillery completed
-------: airport (160S=2t) prebuild started
1190AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
1200AD: airport completed
-------: hydro plant (240S=3t) prebuild started
1210AD: Electronics discovered (at earliest)
1230AD: Electronics discovered (at latest)
-------: hydro plant completed
-------: 1t-vet-bomber (100S) production commences

Depending on the situation, we may start the airport prebuild 1t earlier (in 1170AD) and speed up everything else afterwards by 1t. Not sure if it's necessary to go so tight - that extra arty piece won't hurt.

Last edited by vondrack on 26-08-2004 at 01:27

	01-08-2004 21:39									#182
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Jackson
Jackson shall be one of our primary BB shipyards, with the production of 72spt in a food neutral setup at pop 16. Capable of 1t arty at -1fpt, too, though - just not when Legopolis is at 80+spt.

Timeline
1140AD: artillery completed
-------: battleship production resumed
1170AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the earliest)
-------: battleship completed
1180AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the latest)
1190AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
1200AD: battleship completed
1210AD: Electronics discovered (at the earliest)
1230AD: Electronics discovered (at the latest)
-------: battleship completed

Once we have a decent naval presence in the sea between Legos and Bob, we may want to slip an airport in - not to build vet airplanes, but to allow airplanes stationed in Jackson to heal in a single turn (Jackson is - because of Magellan's & Pyramids - one of the most valuable targets for anyone attacking us).

Last edited by vondrack on 26-08-2004 at 01:35

	01-08-2004 21:52									#183
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Panama
ATM, Panama is working hard on making the capacity of our emergency naval route from/to Voxtavia as high as possible. 2t transports at -2fpt/-4fpt (alternating).

Timeline
1140AD: transport finished
1160AD: transport finished
1170AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the earliest)
1180AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the latest)
-------: transport finished
-------: hydro plant (240S) prebuild started
1210AD: Electronics discovered (at the earlies)
1220AD: Electronics discovered (at the latest)
1230AD: hydro plant completed -> 64spt/0fpt or 60spt/+2fpt
-------: 2t destroyer/submarine production commences

Panama will be an ideal DD/sub producer, as it will barely pass the 60spt mark even with a hydro plant.

Last edited by vondrack on 26-08-2004 at 01:43

	01-08-2004 22:17									#184
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Kloreepville

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Kloreepville - after spitting out one last ironclad (to be finished in 1050AD), K'ville will be missing a uni and stock exchange. We should be able to do without a stock exchange, but the uni is a must (to be finished in 1090AD, maybe already in 1080AD). I'd suggest a coal plant here then (same reasoning as with Jackson and Zargonia - brings the city to 60+spt) and naval production - 2t destroyers/submarines, 3t battleships/carriers. Kloreepville will most likely have some workers joined, so that it can neglect growth and focus on production.

Assuming the grassland E-NE shall be worked by Legopolis, Kloreepville should (after building a coal plant) end up producing (63-6=57)*4/3=76spt at +1fpt. That's not exactly optimal for 100/120/180/200S naval builds, so we better free the grass W-NW for Invoice (which will eventually stop pumping workers and need every single shield to become half-useful), dropping to (60-6=54)*4/3=72spt at +1fpt. Still quite an overkill, but the only other solution would be to build a courthouse and a police station in K'ville, hopefully getting to (63-3=60)*4/3=80spt. However, 80spt would only be good for fighters or arty and I believe it would be a waste to not use K'ville for naval production. So...

Timeline
1090AD: university completed
-------: coal plant started
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
1120AD: coal plant completed
-------: 2t destroyer production commences
-------: we might want to irrigate some mined tiles
1140AD: destroyer completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
-------: destroyer completed
1180AD: destroyer completed
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: destroyer completed
1220AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
-------: destroyer completed

Depending on the situation, we may switch to 3t battleships - basically, BSs are more upkeep effective than destroyers (higher punch for the same upkeep) and a 3t BS is IMHO better than a 2t DD... but if we get into troubles in the Western Ocean, we will need not only the right punch, but the right numbers, too... and then three 2t DDs may be better than two 3t BSs.

And if things are really peaceful, we may slip a stock exchange in...

	01-08-2004 22:37									#185
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Red Bricks
Red Bricks is currently doing arty, but should soon do a 2t colosseum (to allow max pop), then a 2t airport, and 4t hydro plant - it should then become our prime fighter production center, since at pop 20, it will be producing (70-7)*4/3=84spt.

Timeline
1140AD: artillery completed
1160AD: artillery completed
-------: city upped to 60+spt (adding workers, remining irrigated tiles)
-------: colosseum started
1170AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the earliest)
1180AD: Atomic Theory discovered (at the latest)
-------: colosseum completed
-------: population boosted to 19/20
-------: airport (160S) prebuild started
1190AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
-------: airport build shortrushed to 100S (via bomber)
1200AD: airport completed
-------: hydro plant (240S=4t) prebuild started
1210AD: Electronics discovered (at the earliest)
1230AD: Electronics discovered (at the latest)
1240AD: hydro plant completed
-------: 1t-vet-fighter production commences

Last edited by vondrack on 26-08-2004 at 02:05

	01-08-2004 22:50									#186
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Dye Fields

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Dye Fields - a fully equipped city already. After finishing its current build (an ironclad completing the ironcladisation of ENS) in 1050AD, I'd suggest 2-3 arty pieces, then navy (or barracks & infantry, depending on the situation). Again, as with Jackson and Zargonia, a coal plant here would be reasonable, if going for navy, as it would bring the city from ~50spt to 60+spt.

As more and more cities have their build queues planned, it's becoming easier to plan the remaining ones. If we are to modernize our artillery within a reasonable timeframe, D.F. must keep cranking 2t arty pieces out at least until 1170AD. Afterwards, I'd build a coal plant here, bringing the city to (53-5=48)*4/3=64spt. At 64spt, D.F. would become a fine 2t DD/sub or 3t carrier producer.

Timeline
1090AD: artillery completed
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
-------: artillery completed
1130AD: artillery completed
1150AD: artillery completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1170AD: artillery completed
-------: coal plant (160S) started
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: coal plant completed
-------: 2t naval production commences

	01-08-2004 23:45									#187
	Got spare money?

Sharpehaven

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Sharpehaven - after finishing the uni in 1050AD, the city will be missing harbour, stock exchange, and hospital. I guess we can do without a stock exchange here for a couple of turns and the harbour will only be needed after building a hospital & growing to pop 13. I thus suggest we make good use of the 45spt we can generate here (working the mountain instead of coast) and set S'haven to 2t infantry builds.

Pretty much the same as Dye Fields. We simply need those 2t artilleries from here (as 2t infantries are out of reach for S'haven). Once we are able to build tanks, S'haven will be a good place to build them (at slightly over 50spt with a coal plant).

Timeline
1090AD: artillery completed
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
-------: artillery completed
1130AD: artillery completed
1150AD: artillery completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1170AD: artillery completed
1190AD: artillery completed
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: coal plant started
1240AD: Motorized Transportation discovered
-------: coal plant completed
-------: 2t-tank production commences

Alternatively, we may build a harbour here and use the city to build 2t submarines.

	02-08-2004 00:40									#188
	Inflate your Upload Space

Karina

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Karina - after finishing its hospital this turn (1040AD), the city is going to be fully equipped. Shall focus on building infantry, while growing as fast as possible (by irrigating the grasslands SW and later W of the city, we will have a 45spt production centre with +6 to +8fpt). A new infantry unit every 2t. No workers to be added, as Karina has its own fine growth potential plus not that many free tiles to work...

Karina is our prime infantry production center ATM - it should keep cranking out 2t infantries for few more turns, then do a 4t hydro plant (pre)build, spit few more (1t) infantries and focus on 1t-tank production as soon as we discover Motorized Transport (at pop 19, Karina should be producing exactly 100spt... and there will be a 1spt reserve in case something goes wrong):

Timeline
1080AD: infantry completed
1100AD: infantry completed
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
1120AD: infantry completed
1140AD: infantry completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
-------: infantry completed
-------: hydro plant (240S) prebuild started
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: hydro plant completed -> 90+spt
-------: 1t-infantry production commences
1210AD: infantry completed
1220AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
-------: infantry completed
1230AD: infantry completed
1240AD: Motorized Transport discovered
-------: infantry completed
-------: population boosted to 19 -> 100spt
-------: 1t-tank production commences

	02-08-2004 00:49									#189
	Remove this text

Nou Camp

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Nou Camp - yeah, you guessed it... 5t infantries with 1t workers inbetween.

With several our top cities start focusing on infantry, I believe it would be a good idea to change Nou Camp from a military camp into a 2t worker pump - either relieving Invoice of this role or simply boosting the worker production.

Nou Camp can, at pop 5, work 3 iRRigated deserts, 1 iRRigated plains, and 1 iRRigated grassland for 5spt/+5fpt - which is an ideal 2t worker pump.

Let's finish the current infantry build and then turn Nou Camp into a worker pump:

Timeline
1130AD: infantry completed
-------: worker started
1140AD: worker completed -> pop 5
-------: WF reset as described above
-------: 2t worker production commences

This has an added benefit of freeing all (3) those fine hills for Karina and Q.M., which will be able to use them more effectively thanks to their factories/plants.

	02-08-2004 01:02									#190
	Put an end to popups!

Tarzania

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Tarzania - currently building its last city improvement, a cathedral (to be finished in 1070AD). Afterwards, the city will be available for military production - 2t infantries or arty pieces. Despite high corruption & waste, I would skip police station for now, as savings would make no difference in production times anyway, we'd only be paying maintenance. A coal plant does not seem to be needed either, as Tarzania should be able to generate 45spt as it is (just needs few more pop points to work all available tiles).

One of our primary infantry producers ATM - at 45spt, it's just perfect for that purpose. Shall stay that way until tanks become available... then, we build a police station (and mine 1 currently irrigated tile, if necessary), go to 50+spt and start doing 2t tanks:

Timeline
1090AD: infantry completed
1110AD: infantry completed
1130AD: Mass Production discovered
1150AD: infantry completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1170AD: infantry completed
1190AD: infantry completed
-------: police station started
1200AD: Electronics discovered
1230AD: police station completed
-------: 2t-tank production commences
1240AD: Motorized Transport discovered

Note, that we should be able to avoid a coal plant in Tarzania at least until MIs, probably even until MAs.

	02-08-2004 01:12									#191
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Zargonia

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Zargonia - after finishing the hospital in 1050AD, the city will be missing university & stock exchange. While I believe we will be able to do without the stock exchange for some time, the university is a must (to be finished in 1090AD). Afterwards, Zargonia can be used for all kinds of military/naval builds - 2t arty, 2t infantry, 3t destroyers... however, should we choose to build naval units here, I'd suggest a coal plant, since the situation in Zargonia is pretty much the same as in Jackson - a coal plant would bring the city to 70+spt, cutting production times significantly for all naval units.

With its coal plant being completed this coming turn (1090AD), Zargonia shall easily get past 60spt and become an ideal destroyer production center. There is still a uni missing here, but it seems to me our research power is high enough to chew through Mass Production, Atomic Theory, Electronics, and Motorized Transport in 4+5+4+4=17t with very little deficit. Thus, for the next at least 15-20 turns, Zargonia can focus on DDs (and later 3t carriers), I believe, complementing the BSs coming from Jackson:

Timeline
1090AD: coal plant completed
-------: 2t destroyer production commences
1110AD: destroyer completed
-------: Mass Production discovered
1130AD: destroyer completed
1150AD: destroyer completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1170AD: destroyer completed
1190AD: destroyer completed
1200AD: Electronics discovered
1210AD: destroyer completed
-------: 3t carrier production commences
1220AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
1240AD: carrier completed

	02-08-2004 01:28									#192
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Forkmouth

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Forkmouth - after finishing the cathedral this turn (1040AD), there will be only 2 city improvements missing here, a stock exchange and hospital. We plan to keep our tax rate mostly low (around 30%), which means a stock exchange would increase the tax by some 3gpt only. I would say we can leave it for later. Hospital is a bit different story, but with all land tiles being worked already and the city growth rate minimal to none... I suggest 2 ironclads (till 1080AD) finishing the WNS rebuild, then a hospital (1120AD), and then artillery/navy all the way (ideal 2t arty, 3t destroyers, and 5t battleships).

With exactly 40spt at pop 12, Forkmouth is ideally suited for 80S/120S builds - arty & DDs. Further growing the city will not increase the shield output, so we might be better off using it for DDs (because of the harbour here). However, a hydro plant will raise the output to 50+spt, making Forkmouth a great submarine shipyard:

Timeline
1090AD: destroyer completed
-------: last ironclad started
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
-------: ironclad completed
1140AD: destroyer completed
-------: hydro plant (240S) prebuild started
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: hydro plant completed
-------: 2t-submarine production commences

	02-08-2004 01:47									#193
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Horsefish

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Horsefish - still a number of turns to completing its factory build; pretty much the same as with Abilene.

Seeing how there is no city (with the exception of F'mouth, but that's still 11t from now) dedicated to submarine construction, I believe we should "sacrifice" Horsefish and delay further city improvements in favour of some 3t submaries. After finishing the factory, the city shield output shall rise to 36spt, which is quite fine for 3t submarines:

Timeline
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
-------: factory completed
-------: 3t-submarine production commences
1140AD: submarine completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
1170AD: submarine completed
1200AD: Electronics discovered
-------: submarine completed

As F'mouth should be able to take the submarine construction over here, we may get back to infra from 1200AD onwards.

	02-08-2004 01:55									#194
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Logville

quote: Originally posted by vondrack Logville - currently building a cathedral (to be finished in 1060AD), planning to move on to a hospital afterwards (to be finished in 1110AD), growing back to pop 12 in the meantime. Logville is going to stay under 40spt unless we mine both irrigated tiles, stopping the city growth - which I would suggest to after completing the hospital. We shall add a number of workers then and focus on builds costing multiples of 40S (arty, destroyers, battleships).

The plan pretty much stays, just that once hydro plant becomes an option, we should build it and make Logville a submarine shipyard:

Timeline
1100AD: hospital finished
-------: we mine both irrigated tiles
-------: 2t artillery production commences
1110AD: Mass Production discovered
1120AD: artillery completed
1140AD: artillery completed
1160AD: Atomic Theory discovered (a 5t research project)
-------: artillery completed
1180AD: artillery completed
-------: hydro plant (240S) prebuild started
1200AD: Electronics discovered
1220AD: Flight delivered by Vox (at the latest)
1240AD: hydro plant completed
-------: 2t-submarine production commences

	16-08-2004 19:28									#195
	Increase Your PM Length

Hats off for your planning mood and talent Radek.

I admire the amount of work you put into this game, therefore I am almost afraid to be a critic , but ...

shouldn't we start prebuilding a wonder? I don't see any wonder prebuild in the queues.

	16-08-2004 20:46									#196
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That's correct... wonders to come are 1000S, which will be 10t in one of our prime cities. We are at least 17t from entering the modern era and most likely 21-22t from being able to finish a wonder. It's too early to plan a prebuild.

IMHO, of course.

Plus, I believe it's a given that there will be a war starting in very few turns. Wonder prebuilds will then become secondary, as we will be fighting for our life.

	16-08-2004 21:17									#197
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Hm. Perhaps I was too quick responding...

If 17t-21t is how long it's going to take before we are able to finish a 1000S wonder (UN), then, yes, we should have a prebuild planned. I sorta overestimated how long we have before wonders come into play again.

However... with the most recent developments (GS military build-up), I believe that planning wonders is something we can easily forget. Actually, we SHOULD forget... Within 10 turns, we'll most likely be desperately fighting to survive as a superpower into the modern times. IF we survive the next ~10-15t intact, then we should revisit the issue and see whether one of our most productive cities can be set aside for a wonder or not.

	17-08-2004 11:26									#198
	Got spare money?

Well, if we give up our modern wonder building plans, then they've already won the war ...

What is the purpose of any war against us? Not conquer, because this is almost impossible. The only real purpose is to weaken us. So, if we win the military war, but fall behind in the tech race because of it, then we lose the overall war, the big scale battle.

Did it occur to you that this could be only a big hoax? It is unlikely, I admit, but it's possible. They want to force us to focus on the military instead of science and to gain an even bigger tech lead. Not very probable, but a possibility though.

So I think that we should keep at least some builder options inh reserve, even if we focus on the military.

Oh well, I will move this discussion on the other thread, the new war thread.

	18-08-2004 08:12									#199
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree with Tiberius, don't completely abandon wonders. We still want the Interent if at all possible.