19-05-2003 13:27									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Jackson should build a worker again after the current merc. They are closing to the point when losing food again.

That's the plan, I believe (at least Kloreep's timeline shows Worker after the current Merc).

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Btw, I've just noticed that Tarzania has 3 non-improvable sea tiles. Now it's a little late to complain, but I think that founding it one tile E or N-E from where it is now would have been better.

This was actually intentional - if we built Tarzania on the coast, we would have gained "improvable" sea tiles, but would lose even "better improvable" jungle-later-to-be-grassland tiles.

Keep in mind that sea cannot be used for production, at least not in the "reasonably foreseeable" future. Coast/sea is 2 food, 2/1 commerce max (with the 80-shield harbour... I'm ignoring the 160-shield commercial docks, which add 1 commerce) - compared to jungle/grass, it's either 1-2 food or 1-3 shields less, while the only "plus" is maybe 1 more commerce... not worth it, IMHO.

a) built where it was built
3 coastal (incl. the fish)
5 hills (1 shared with Zargonia)
12 jungle/grass (1 shared with Zargonia, 1 shared with Farmerville - both bonus ones)

b) one tile E
6 coastal (incl. the fish)
3 sea
4 hills (1 shared with Zargonia)
7 jungle/grass (2 shared with Zargonia, 1 bonus & 1 cattle)
trading 5 jungle/grass and 1 hill for 3 coastal & 3 sea

c) one tile NE
6 coastal (incl. the fish)
1 sea
3 hills
10 jungle/grass (1 bonus shared with Zargonia, 1 shared with Dye Fields)
trading 2 jungle/grass and 2 hills for 3 coastal & 1 sea

d) one tile SE
5 coastal (incl. the fish)
3 hills (1 shared with Zargonia)
12 jungle/grass (4 shared with Zargonia, incl. 1 bonus & 1 cattle)
trading 2 non-overlapping jungle/grass and 2 hills for 2 coastal

e) one tile N
5 coastal (incl. the fish, 1 shared with Dye Fields)
4 hills
11 jungle/grass (3 shared with Dye Fields)
trading 1 non-overlapping jungle/grass and 1 hill for 2 coastal, 1 of them overlapping

It's shields that win games, not commerce. IMHO, only the very last alternative (one tile north) would be also ok - though we would be having a difficult start, with no "good" tile to work (this way, we have two bonus grasses to work).

	22-05-2003 12:59									#92
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When are we planning to move to Republic? ~ 10 turns, I suppose?

Which is the last temple we are going to wait for? Red Bricks?

	22-05-2003 13:53									#93
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Earlier, Turn 107, 5 turns from now. We will be able to rush temples in Farmerville (2-pop, turn 103), Karina (1-pop, turn 105), Logville (2-pop, turn 107), Sharpehaven (2-pop, turn 107), Dye Fields (2-pop, turn 107), and Red Bricks (1-pop, turn 106). Jackson will build one without rushing.

Summary:

Turn 103: Farmerville
Turn 105: Karina
Turn 106: Red Bricks
Turn 107: Logville, Sharpehaven, Dye Fields

Last edited by vondrack on 22-05-2003 at 14:04

	22-05-2003 19:41									#94
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Ah, I thought Red Bricks is going to finish it the hard way (based on the Building timeline table), and that we are going to change to Rep after that.

The Legopolis market will be ready on turn 108, so maybe we should make the change then, instead of 107.

	22-05-2003 20:28									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Ah, I thought Red Bricks is going to finish it the hard way (based on the Building timeline table), and that we are going to change to Rep after that.

Well, that's probably something to discuss. I lean towards using as much pop for production as possible, since pop is cheap for us... but the Red Bricks temple would not change the schedule, as it is not the last one to be built.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius The Legopolis market will be ready on turn 108, so maybe we should make the change then, instead of 107.

I may be missing something fundamental (getting a bit nuts from all this DG-civvin' ), but I believe there is no urgent need to finish the Marketplace prior to switching govs. During anarchy, marketplaces do not generate any income, nor cost upkeep... finishing the Marketplace before anarchy thanks to delaying that anarchy by 1 turn is almost exactly the same as finishing the Marketplace on the first turn AFTER the gov switch, switching the gov a turn earlier...

Actually switching sooner is more efficient, as that 1 turn of difference would be spent under Republic with (slightly) more pop.

I would prefer switching as soon as we finish the last rush.

	22-05-2003 21:28									#96
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I would also be in favor of the switch taking place as soon as the final rush is completed. As Vondrack said, there is no need to have the market in place before the switch, whereas there is an ever-so-slight benefit to having it finished after.

	23-05-2003 00:53									#97
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Yes, I'd like to switch on 107. We could go to 108 and poprush Forkmouth's barracks, but I think it would be better to switch on 107; Dye Fields, Logville, and Sharpehaven all make their rushes on that turn, so it's the major hurdle to making our longer time in Despotism worthwhile.

	23-05-2003 02:25									#98
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Ah, OK, 107 then.

I didn't realize (I forgot) that the market isn't producing anything during those turns.

	23-05-2003 17:55									#99
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I have been thinking about the Red Bricks temple build... swaying back and forth between rushing and building it the hard way... Here is what I consider two viable options:

hard way

T103: pop 4, 4F, 19S; reassign labourer from mined grass to forest -> 6spt
T104: pop 4, 5F, 25S
T105: pop 4, 6F, 31S
T106: pop 4, 7F, 37S
T107: pop 4, 8F, 43S; revolution -> anarchy, reassign labourer from forest to grass to grow
T108...: pop5, 0F, 43S; anarchy

We would then manage the growth so that Red Bricks grows to pop 6 exactly at the moment Temple gets finished (we will need 3 turns in Republic to finish it). Once at pop 6, we build a worker that starts improving more tiles, and continue with another build.

1-pop rush

T103: pop 4, 4F, 19S; labourers on grasses, 5 spt
T104: pop 4, 6F, 24S
T105: pop 4, 8F, 29S
T106: pop 5, 0F, 34S, new labourer to start working forest or gold mountain -> 6spt
T107: pop 5, 0-1F, 40S, 1-pop rush -> pop 4; revolution -> anarchy, reassign labourer from forest to grass to grow
T108: pop 4, 2-3F, 0S; anarchy

We would then manage the growth so that Red Bricks grows reasonably (hopefully back to pop 5 shortly after the end of anarchy), first spitting out a worker that would be improving more tiles (we currently do not have enough of them to properly utilize pop 5). If things go fine, we should be growing to pop 6 around the time those 20 turns of poprush induced unhappiness would be wearing off.

What do you prefer? I would go with the second option... three turns of production under republic will be worth those 20 pop-shields... but I may be missing something important...

	24-05-2003 08:14									#100
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Production will benefit from the poprush, yes; the reason I didn't think it should be used is commerce. However, this definitely bears thinking about again...

Since it's on a river, each pop point is worth 2 commerce a turn; more like 2.7, with the Library and the high science slider. Once in Republic, each pop point there will be worth more - 3-4 commerce each (road + river + Rep bonus=3, plus any commerce applied to science will get a +50% bonus); so, assuming all 20 of those turns will be spent with one pop unit less than with a rush (which is admittedly unlikely), I think we'd lose 40-75 commerce (a few of those "wasted pop" turns will be spent under anarchy, when the reduced commerce gathering won't matter anyway). 40 commerce (in gold form) = 10 shields; 60 commerce = 15 shields; 75 commerce = ~19 shields.

So, I'd guess gain will probably outweigh the loss by about 5 shields, or 20 commerce. The other loss, however, is the straight inability to be happy over pop 5 for those 20 turns. Still, considering it only has 4 completely improved tiles to work anyway, that may not be such a loss; and as you point out, the unpoprushed version might have to be stunted, whereas the poprushed version will get close to pop 5 while in anarchy and can produce a worker quickly. So... let's rush it. We're growing short of workers, and the sooner we can produce more under Republic, the better.

	29-05-2003 01:42									#101
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I think we should change Legopolis' build to a Cathedral. It'll take 6 turns once we're out of anarchy; we can then build the market if needed. This is because I want Legopolis to operate at maximum pop under Republic, and with a Cathedral, it'll be able to operate at pop 9. This is pretty much perfect if we mine its hills and irrigate the cattle; the 3 surplus food from the cattle + the two food from the city's base tile will support the five hills, and the three other citizens can work mined grasses.

Also, at pop 7, Legopolis will already have to use a specialist to maintain order once in Republic; and, if we irrigate the cattle as I want to, we can get to pop 8 fairly soon (at least, fairly soon in city growth terms). If we then integrate a worker from Farmerville to bring it to pop 9 (growth will take 20 turns at pop 8 if we work hills), and we have a Cathedral ready to make everyone happy, Legopolis will be a great city, ready to build Sistines and/or Bach's quickly. We can still build the market first after the Cathedral.

	29-05-2003 02:06									#102
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I whole-heartedly agree with this plan. This will really give Legopolis an incredible build potential on top of our already strong industrial base.

	29-05-2003 04:24									#103
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The only problem is that Republic without markets is really painful. Admitedly I don't know exactly how many golds we would lose without this Legopolis market, but the more markets we have the better. To solve the unhappiness/entertainer problem, we could build a worker or settler after the market and only after that the cathedral.

	29-05-2003 04:31									#104
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I agree with Tiberius. A marketplace in Legopolis should be built first then a cathedral. We are going to need the money desperately.

	29-05-2003 07:55									#105
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Under Republic, Legopolis will be effectively operating at 6 pop, and so it'll pull in 23 commerce per turn; 3 commerce per worked tile (gotta love rivers ) plus 5 from the city tile (one for being a city tile, one for being on a river, two for being a metropolis, one more for being under republic). Assuming 50% tax (though it could be as low as 40%), that's ~11 commerce, or ~5 per turn from the market. Since the market costs 1 gold each turn to operate, it's technically 4 per turn from the market. So, with 6 turns to complete the cathedral and around 7 more to build the market, that's 52 gold. (Assuming we run at 50% tax and assuming the market would complete as soon as we hit Republic.) However, we'd be able to get more raw commerce by building the cathedral first, since the specialist would only be needed for the 6 turns required to complete the Cathedral, whereas with a market first, the specialist would be required longer and growth would be held up. 7 extra turns without a specialist should be worth at least 14, probably 21 raw commerce, bringing the cost to either 38 or 31. The extra specialist would at the very least be able to work a hill, bringing in at least 7 more food, 14 if a grass is worked. I don't think the shields would matter, but I need to do a simulation.

	29-05-2003 10:08									#106
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I would lean towards finishing the Marketplace, spitting out a worker (would be improving the city radius), then building the Cathedral, and then reintegrating the worker back... this way, we will lose minimum on entertainers (just one or two turns right after the anarchy, before the Marketplace would be done), get max on gold, and still have Legopolis at high pop soon.

	29-05-2003 10:14									#107
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Hmm... we seem to have a split in the issue Well, I guess we should wait for Kloreep's simulation results, and then we can vote on a final decision.

And let us all reflect on how nice it is that we get to debate over building a cath. or market first, instead of having to argue with crazy neighboring civs or fight of invading hordes Let us hope it stays this way.

	29-05-2003 10:56									#108
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I somehow doubt the we will be able to operate in Republic on 50%, without any marketplaces. Kloreep, could you make your simulation on 40%, too? (maybe even on 30%).

	07-06-2003 18:54									#109
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OK, with our beloved empire now being run as a Republic, with less corruption and better effectivity, I believe it is time to set our priorities for the foreseeable future. IMHO, they are (the order I list them in is a bit arbitrary, though I would probably order them this way if you asked me for a meaningful order):

1) create a second production core around Karina
2) bolster our military
3) keep our population happy (build Sistine's or Bach's)
4) create a sizeable navy
5) settle the rest of our landmass
6) keep our lead in the research
7) properly time and trigger our GA

Keeping this in mind, here is a run-down of all our cities and my ideas re: their future use/builds/development:

Legopolis: after finishing the marketplace this turn, I would suggest starting a settler. He would be ready in mere 2 turns and Legopolis would return back to pop 6 (which is its current "optimum" pop) within no more than 2 more turns. Settler would be sent to found Castlea in the Northern mountains, completing our primary core/ring. After this settler, we would start a Cathedral in Legopolis, partially gold-rushing it (for ca 200 gold). Then, we would add some workers to jump to pop 9 (new "optimum" pop, thanks to the Cathedral) ASAP and go full speed (hopefully @ 20 spt) for a wonder - aiming for one of the happiness wonders: Sistine's or Bach's.

Jackson: after finishing the temple, it should remain at pop 6 and alternate between military units and workers/settlers, so that we waste no food, but make good use of the barracks there. Once we would have our military at a desired strength, we may consider building another improvement there (harbour, cathedral etc...)

Farmerville: Farmeville 2-pop-rushed its temple on turn 103, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 4, or pop 5 with a specialist until turn 123. Workers and settlers, nothing else to build here - and as fast as possible. Farmerville will grow every 2 turns, so it would be wonderful to somehow get it to 5 spt and spit a new worker every 2 turns from there.

Panama: keep at pop 6, alternating between military units and workers/settlers to keep the pop at the optimum level. After we reach our desired military strength, we build a cathedral there, jump to pop 9 and go for a wonder - possibly a commercial wonder that would trigger our GA.

Red Bricks: 1-pop-rushed its temple on turn 107, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 5, or pop 6 with a specialist until turn 127. Marketplace first, then cathedral... time enough to ponder about the next build, but I think University might be an option. We will need to take of all the jungle there. I would suggest keeping the pop at 5 with no specialist, working both forests - we will get the best shield output (7-8 spt) that way, keepin the pop at the desired level at the same time.

Forkmouth: 1-pop-rushed its temple on turn 100, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 5, or pop 6 with a specialist until turn 120. So, after the barracks is finished, spit out a worker that will mine all those hills there and then produce military units until we have our army/navy at full strength.

Karina: 1-pop-rushed its temple on turn 105, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 5, or pop 6 with a specialist until turn 125. Wait until the forest chop finishes, then goldrush (for ~220 gold) the courthouse and go straight for the Forbidden Palace.

Zargonia: 1-pop-rushed its temple on turn 98, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 5, or pop 6 with a specialist until turn 118. Finish harbour first, then keep producing naval units.

Dye Fields: 2-pop-rushed its temple on turn 107, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 4, or pop 5 with a specialist until turn 127. Finish the marketplace first, we will see then. Library would be an option, that's for sure.

Logville: 2-pop-rushed its temple on turn 107, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 4, or pop 5 with a specialist until turn 127. Worker first, we will see then.

Sharpehaven: 2-pop-rushed its temple on turn 107, so we need to keep the pop there either at pop 4, or pop 5 with a specialist until turn 127. Barracks, then military units.

Tarzania: temple first, then perhaps a marketplace.

Kloreepville: no idea... time enough to think its build over.

	07-06-2003 19:22									#110
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Now, as for our military:

Considering our economy, I believe we should aim for a strong military aimed purely for defensive purposes. I do not see us engaging in wars on other continents in the foreseeable future.

I would like to have all our coastal cities defended with 2 defenders, 1 slow attacker, and 1 artillery piece (scrapping the slow attacker rather than the arty piece) - starting with Jackson, going in the clockwise direction around our continent. All vets, if possible (training our regulars on barbs). All our coastal cities should end up with barracks - mostly for defensive purposes and to relieve us from tedious unit shuffling every time a new unit type appears and we need to upgrade.

These "immobile" defenses should be complemented by three groups of fast response forces, comprised solely from fast attackers. Based in Legopolis, Farmeville, and Karina areas, they should be about 5 units strong each (stronger later on), capable of reaching a "beachhead" anywhere in one turn - in order to make this possible, roads should be built towards the coast wherever necessary.

This is quite a long-term goal and we should be building our military gradually, manning our coastal cities one after another in about this order: Jackson, Panama, Dye Fields, Tarzania/Zargonia... and so on, depending on how we are doing. I would leave the inner cities with no garrison... maybe some reserves, but that would be MUCH later on...

As for the navy: short-term, I would like to see one more galley for "ferrying" between Legos Minor/Major. Other than that, I would wait until stronger types of warships become available... galleys/caravels simply don't cut it...

	08-06-2003 00:51									#111
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DM mostly looks good. Will comment on Legopolis and Kloreepville later when I have the save open. (A SPDG chat is about to start.)

	08-06-2003 23:21									#112
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Commentary on Vondrack's ideas:

Legopolis - I agree with building a settler, but wonder if Castlea should be done before or after Port Hammer? Also a university should be fitted in before starting a wonder preferably.

Jackson - A harbor would be a very good idea there to allow trade and add food for growth once we eventually have an aqueduct there. Agreed that it should be a military center for units plus building workers/settlers to keep the pop down until we do build an aqueduct.

Farmerville - We should start mining the desert squares and use them to keep the population under control when necessary (when not building settlers and workers) - let's not go too overboard with workers (1-2 per city should be fine) as we do need to settle the south too. We do need to get another happiness building there eventually.

Panama - get mktplaces, libraries, universities etc. there too as it is still one of our most important commerce areas.

RedBricks - agreed mktplace cathedral university and clear the jungle

Forkmouth - agreed re mining the hills and military but we also need to reduce corruption further for it to be worth it - wonder if we should go for another courthouse (I know it will be nearly useless when FP is finished, but might be useful now)

Karina - agreed rush courthouse then FP

Zargonia - not entirely sure about a harbor though it would also help with the food situation there, but will take a loooong time to build

Dyefields - agreed - is becoming a major commerce center so concentrate on those areas

Logville - still nearly useless for building anything - workers for sure

Sharpehaven - with its hills and the wheat I wonder whether we should mix military and REXing here.

Tarzania - agreed

Kloreepville - Temple if we get its defensive units somewhere else - we should be attempting to get the jungle cleared and irrigated here so we can use its large amount of hills

Suggest we get the following cities built within 30 or so turns:

Port Hammer
Ah my foot
Quanto
Tiberium
Castlea

I wonder whether we should also consider using up a worker to build an outpost on the mountain at the northern end of Legos Major - this would allow us to see the sea area between us and Mystery Isle and the Hammer peninsula and without having to have a ship nearby.

	09-06-2003 02:09									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Legopolis - I agree with building a settler, but wonder if Castlea should be done before or after Port Hammer? Also a university should be fitted in before starting a wonder preferably.

Where to send the settler remains to be seen... Castlea might be better short-term (lower corruption) - and it'd complete the settlement of our Northern mainland. But I have no strong opinion on this. What matters to me is the settler, not where it goes to.

However, I disagree quite strongly with delaying the wonder build with a university build... remember, the techs we are researching (the Edu branch) are good primarily for great wonder builds. It makes little sense to invest into research of those, while not actually building all or at least some of those wonders. ATM, the world is heading into a major war, with us (and maybe ND) being the only uninvolved (=happily researching) nations. I don't think we need more research potential - for the time being, it would be an overkill. Especially considering how important happiness wonders are for us.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Jackson - A harbor would be a very good idea there to allow trade and add food for growth once we eventually have an aqueduct there. Agreed that it should be a military center for units plus building workers/settlers to keep the pop down until we do build an aqueduct.

Actually, 6+ pop will need a cathedral/colosseum before the aquaduct. With just a temple, pop 6 is Jackson's max. So going 6+ pop in Jackson is a major shield investment, which we should commit to only after having our defenses set up. To allow trade, all we need is ONE harbour and that is currently being constructed in Zargonia (see my note on Zargonia below). All that + considering we have one of our few barracks in Jackson, I really believe we should make it a highly productive military camp for some time, shifting to infrastructure only later on.

Let's not make the mistake of building too much infrastructure on the expense of military - we could very well be building all those improvements for someone else...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Panama - get mktplaces, libraries, universities etc. there too as it is still one of our most important commerce areas.

Most of what I said about Jackson applies here, too, but I agree that a marketplace & library would be nice. But only after we train ourselves few more units here.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Forkmouth - agreed re mining the hills and military but we also need to reduce corruption further for it to be worth it - wonder if we should go for another courthouse (I know it will be nearly useless when FP is finished, but might be useful now)

An 80-shield courthouse would take about 15 turns to complete. IIRC, The FP in Karina should be done in less than 30-40 turns, which would make the courthouse really effective for ~15-25 turns. Considering the courthouse could save like 2-3 spt max, it is not a good investment (shields saved < shield cost of the build)

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Zargonia - not entirely sure about a harbor though it would also help with the food situation there, but will take a loooong time to build

Not that long, actually - even at this very moment, we can get Zargonia to 3 spt. With both hills mined, it will be at least 4 spt, maybe 5. That should allow us to complete the harbour build there in ~15-20 turns from now, which is exactly the time we should be finishing our Astronomy research (for us, harbours are useless for trade until the discovery of Astronomy, that allows trade over sea tiles).

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I wonder whether we should also consider using up a worker to build an outpost on the mountain at the northern end of Legos Major - this would allow us to see the sea area between us and Mystery Isle and the Hammer peninsula and without having to have a ship nearby.

This is actually why I was suggesting to found Castlea with the Legopolis settler... the first build would be a temple, to quickly expand the radius to make us see what is going on between us and Mystery Isle.

Even though I know we can have SO many workers, I am not really thrilled with the idea of using one up for an outpost - would be better to move him there and order him to mine/road mountains... would do the same service (watch over the strait) while being at least marginally useful...

	09-06-2003 02:20									#114
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Edit: Crossposted with vondrack. (Yes, I really was working on this 10 minutes later. ) Edited in some new comments.

On Legopolis: A settler looks best. But I'd prefer Port Hammer or Suez/Benelux to Castlea. Also, I'd like to see us run a surplus over the next five turn so that we get 475-500 gold; that way, we'll have quite a lot of leeway on the Legopolis half-rush, and we may have some money left over for upgrades depending on that rush. And I don't think a university should be built before wonders; universities cost 200 shields. That's 1/3rd the cost of either happiness wonder. Bach's should come before the University, and maybe Sistine's too.

Kloreepville: We could build a Barracks well before a temple is needed, but I'm not sure how many units would be produced before we'd have to switch to a temple. So, temple first for now.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Farmerville - We should start mining the desert squares and use them to keep the population under control when necessary (when not building settlers and workers) - let's not go too overboard with workers (1-2 per city should be fine) as we do need to settle the south too. We do need to get another happiness building there eventually.

Ideally, I'd like 1-2 per city, plus more for jungle clearing. We need lots of jungle clearers to get our palace core to max productivity.

quote: Panama - get mktplaces, libraries, universities etc. there too as it is still one of our most important commerce areas.

I agree we need a marketplace and Lib ASAP. A Cathedral and a Harbor are important investments too, IMO. I'd wait till all four are in place (a while from now, as it's still needed for unit production as well) before worrying about banks or universities.

quote: RedBricks - agreed mktplace cathedral university and clear the jungle

Yes, Red Bricks should be made into a commerce powerhouse.

quote: Forkmouth - agreed re mining the hills and military but we also need to reduce corruption further for it to be worth it - wonder if we should go for another courthouse (I know it will be nearly useless when FP is finished, but might be useful now)

A courthouse may be worthwhile... it'll be some distance from the FP, too. Something to think about.

Edit:I think a courthouse could be good over the long term, as Forkmouth will be some distance from the FP, same as it is now some distance from the palace.

quote: Zargonia - not entirely sure about a harbor though it would also help with the food situation there, but will take a loooong time to build

Yes, but I think we need a harbor somewhere by the time of Astronomy (admittedly a ways off), and at least a few vet ships are also important for us.

quote: Suggest we get the following cities built within 30 or so turns: Port Hammer Ah my foot Quanto Tiberium Castlea

Agreed, though I don't think we should be building too many cities over the next 20-25 turns; ocn corruption is setting in. But a settler burst from Farmerville beginning in ~20 turns (after the poprush unhappiness wears off) to settle the FP ring would be good.

quote: I wonder whether we should also consider using up a worker to build an outpost on the mountain at the northern end of Legos Major - this would allow us to see the sea area between us and Mystery Isle and the Hammer peninsula and without having to have a ship nearby.

I think this is a good idea, once we have a worker to spare (which may be a while...)

Edit: vondrack, it's true that castlea will be an okay city with some investment, but I'd prefer to put off building it, at least till the FP is completed... to keep OCN down.

	09-06-2003 11:35									#115
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Finally, Republic!

quote: Originally posted by vondrack OK, with our beloved empire now being run as a Republic, with less corruption and better effectivity, I believe it is time to set our priorities for the foreseeable future. IMHO, they are (the order I list them in is a bit arbitrary, though I would probably order them this way if you asked me for a meaningful order): 1) create a second production core around Karina 2) bolster our military 3) keep our population happy (build Sistine's or Bach's) 4) create a sizeable navy 5) settle the rest of our landmass 6) keep our lead in the research 7) properly time and trigger our GA

I agree 100% on these. Maybe we could discuss the order, but the priorities are definitely these.

Now, my 2 cents:

Legopolis:
market, settler, Cathedral, wonder

Jackson:
phase1: temple, units+workers/settlers
phase2: harbor, cathedral, aqueduct, marketplace, etc

Farmerville:
workers+settlers for a long time

Red Bricks:
marketplace, cathedral, ... and we'll see

Forkmouth:
worker, then units, and a couthouse at some point

Karina:
courthouse, FP

Zargonia:
harbor

Dye Fields:
marketplace, library


Sorry, have to go now. To be continued ...

	09-06-2003 11:51									#116
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Kloreep raises a point worth stressing... until we finish our FP in Karina, every new city will sort of "worsen" our corruption levels in cities "closer" to the capital. So we should found only strategically located cities... or cities which are farther from Legopolis than Karina is, so that we do not delay the FP completion in Karina.

I have been thinking about the Legopolis settler destination - and I would probably vote for the Benelux site now. That is the only location that brings in more than just a land grab and "yet another city"... by shortcutting the naval route around Legos Major, effectively allowing our vessels to avoid circumnavigating Legos Minor...

After Benelux, I would focus on the southern coast - because cities there will grab the land for us just fine while not affecting the corruption/waste in the existing cities...

	09-06-2003 12:19									#117
	Increase Your PM Length

Agreed. Benelux fufills the "strategic" aspect of warrenting a city build, and the southern tip cities are distant enough to not matter. Other than that, I would say hold off on any further settlement in the north until the FP is up and running.

	10-06-2003 07:37									#118
	Got spare money?

Makes perfect sense. Time to slow down the REXing and concentrate on setting us up for a glorious future. The three major goals are:
1 - Make us self-sufficient regarding Happiness
2 - Make us self-sufficient regarding Military Defense
3 - Set ourselves up for a Glorious GA (GGA?)

	10-06-2003 13:33									#119
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Regardless of what will happen now with the ND scout it is clear that we need to build a military force as soon as possible. We are no longer isolated, intangible by others.
In the near future it is posiible that 4 or more caravels or galleons can arrive, fully loaded with Ansar knights or Raiders or whatever. Our defence should be ready for such an event, especially in our coastal cities.

Besides we need to settle Port Hammer, Castlea and Crossing, to get an early warning of such attempts.

	11-06-2003 17:24									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In regard to our plans, I wanted to add something about Panama:

Building the Collossus in Panama would trigger our golden ages, unless I'm not mistaken. So, with its very nice commerce rich surroundings plus the Collossus, Panama could be a very productive commerce city. (science or gold or both).

In order to build a wonder there, we need a Cathedral first and possibly a market and/or a library (to harvest then the extra commerce output). Now, these are a lot of turns. Should we want to trigger our golden ages in time for the Sistine's/Bach's build, we don't have time to build units in Panama and we should start the Cathedral immediately. Even if we will save the GA for a later wonder (Smith's maybe, or Magellan's) we still don't have too much time for the preparations.