24-06-2003 23:31									#391
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep On Stanley: I think we should integrate Jack and Jason. Jack will be finished roading in 6 turns and can then integrate. Jason can move N or NW-N, road desert (why not? ), and then integrate immediately. Stanley, after irrigating and roading, can move N, then N-N-N, then mine gold mountain (which we will have to be using before it is mined as it is, in order to keep Red Brick's growth in check).

No problem with this - I actually posted about Stanley being (possibly) integrated into Legopolis before realizing there's a smart way of growing Legopolis by 1 pop exactly on the turn it completes the cathedral build.

So, yes - the gold mountain would be a very good target after the floodplains tile, agreed.

	25-06-2003 13:08									#392
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Plans for 230BC (Turn 117):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) Gaul to skip turn

2) Misty to move N, then sentry
controlling The Sandbox, making sure no barbs from the Northern Mountains reach our core area

3) NuMeric to move E and fortify in Zargonia

4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina

5) G.G. to move NE-N-N, then sentry
becoming the first part of our early warning galley screen

6) DyeHard to move NE, then NE, back to the civilized lands

7) Silver to move S-W, checking for barb camps

8) Troy to move S-SE, then rest
going to check the valley along the western coast

9) G.B. to move E-SE-SE

10) settler+Beta+Howard to move N

11) Conan to skip turn
well, yes, we will be upgrading him, but I would first like to see the cathedral in Legopolis finished and the issue of GS' map purchase resolved, so let's wait with upgrading Conan for a wee while.

12) new Jackson horse to be named 'Hunter' and moved SW-SW-SW-SW-SW, heading to our Southern provinces


Worker Movement/Actions

13) Fritz to mine

14) Leopold to mine

15) Ken to road, connecting Tarzania to our road network (then mine)

16) Stanley to irrigate, then road

17) Rover to move S-SW-S
18) Farmer to move S-SW-S
going to mine the hill S-SE of Karina

19) Jason to move N, then mine
19) Jason to move SE-SE-SE, then mine

re: Legopolis worker integration plan... Jack will be ready on Turn 121 only (one turn late, if roading that hill, which is desirable), so let's use the new worker we are going to build in Jackson ('Richard') and Robbie:
T117: Robbie finishes dye mine, Jackson starts building Richard
T118: Robbie moves NW-NW-NW, Richard moves SW-W
T119: Robbie roads (1), Richard roads (2)
T120: Robbie & Richard move SW-SW and join Legopolis

20) Forrest to move E-E-N, then road & mine


City Management

21) Legopolis to goldrush a colosseum, switching back to cathedral immediately afterwards, and reassign the labourers from the fully improved hills NE and E-NE to the fully improved riverbank grasslands S and SE of the city
goldrush should cost us (120-(32+2*15))*4=232 gold, speeding the cathedral completion by 3 turns.

The timeline:

T116: 47S in bank, +15spt, 12F in bank, +1fpt
T117: 62S in bank, but goldrush for (120-62)*4g to 120S in bank, +12 spt, 13F in bank, +3fpt
(changing the build back to cathedral right after the goldrush, of course); we reassign two hill labourers to grasses on this turn - thus the spt/fpt change
T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
(we reassign one grass labourer back to a hill)
T119: 145S in bank, (13+2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

22) reassign Jackson labourer from the coast to the mined hill and start building a worker
necessary to waste no food + the worker will be needed for the Legopolis worker integration plan

23) reassign Forkmouth labourer to work the roaded grassland instead of the floodplains
no difference in commerce, but no disease risk (I should have done this already on this turn - oversought it)

24) new Sharpehaven labourer to work the roaded grass S of the city
S'haven has food output high enough to support a specialist (sllowing pop 5-6 even with the poprush unhappiness in effect)

25) new Kloreepville labourer to work the fully improved grassland E of the city
let's get K'ville to a high pop ASAP

26) switch Panama production to a horseman
see my recent posts in the Grand Defense Plan thread - we should build the horses we need before we get Chivalry from GoW, as from that moment on, we will be unable to build 30S horses and will have to build 70S knights. Considering how much more commerce we have over others, it will be much better for us to build horses and upgrade them to knights with gold (80g per upgrade... 4 horses in service + 3 horses planned = 7*80=560 gold, which should be doable over the next ~20 turns).

Last edited by vondrack on 26-06-2003 at 22:20

	25-06-2003 13:32									#393
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Just for the sake of curiosity - I tried shuffling the workforce in our cities to see where our competitors stand.

Maxxing out commerce yielded GNP of 215 - still #2 (means GS has more... which is quite admirable). This is only 11% more than our real commerce - our efficiency is fine in this regard.

Maxxing out shields yielded Mfg. Goods of 86 - still #2 (we really do have quite some catching up ahead of us). Normally, we are having Mfg. Goods 73 - a difference of 17%. Not bad.

Maxxing out productivity yielded a total of 252 - still #2. This is only 5 more than our real productivity - we are very efficient in working our tiles!

Now, looking for #3s:

#3 in Mfg. Goods has 54 megatons (19 less than we do - that's more than 25% less!)
#3 in GNP/commerce has 133 million (60 less than we do - that's more than 45% less!)

So - it seems that we have only one competitor ATM: GS.

And: our military is weak vs. GS, average vs. everybody else (yes, even vs. Spain now).

	26-06-2003 02:24									#394
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quote: 4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina

Unless I have missed something, wouldn't taking the road to Karina be a lot faster? If this route is to burn off any fog or spot any units, we can always have the GG galley pass by to do the same.

Also I hope we can use the Kloreepville workers elsewhere after these minings are done as we have inefficiencies arising from new production squares in Sharpehaven, Dyefields, Forkmouth, RedBricks and others. ie no roads or no mines/irrigation in new squares

Some worker actions that might be good ideas to start soon:
-mining the Sharpehaven gold
-mining the roaded Sharpehaven grassland
-mining Rich Hill in RedBricks and converting 1 or 2 grassland squares to irrigation from mining too
-irrigating the Karina plains or mining the Karina bonus grasslands
-mining the Dyefields dyes and its hill
-creating a road NW and NW-N of Panama to increase the speed of transporting units to and from Legos Minor (we can irrigate these areas for future use too)

	26-06-2003 02:35									#395
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Now, looking for #3s: #3 in Mfg. Goods has 54 megatons (19 less than we do - that's more than 25% less!) #3 in GNP/commerce has 133 million (60 less than we do - that's more than 45% less!)

Wow! That's great!

quote: And: our military is weak vs. GS, average vs. everybody else (yes, even vs. Spain now).

That's good; and we shall continue growing our military.

quote: So - it seems that we have only one competitor ATM: GS.

Yep. Too bad Vox couldn't hurt them more. But what the hell, this (and their bad RP) makes them Bob's target in the long run. At least I hope so.

	26-06-2003 09:06									#396
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Jason Jr. SE-SE-SE (then mine, then NE and clear jungle). That desert tile likely will not be used; roading it is simply the only job available in the time span needed for worker integrations. ( using Robbie and the new guy.)

Legopolis (21): Yes, goldrush the Colosseum and switch back to a Cathedral. However, that timeline won't quite work for growth, as we had only one surplus food in Legopolis this turn. (Should've adjusted it last turn. ) To grow in 4 turns (3 turns counting from 117), we need to switch the citizens on both hills NE-E and NE and put them on grasses S and SE. This will produce 3 food and 12 shields. Next turn, we switch one laborer back to a hill, producing 13 spt (25 shields total). Growth should provide the needed 15 shields, especially if we set the governor to emphasize production.

Jackson: Yes, build a worker next.

Everything else

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Some worker actions that might be good ideas to start soon: -mining the Sharpehaven gold

A worker will be moving in to position next turn.

quote: -mining the roaded Sharpehaven grassland

I don't think this needs to be done anytime soon. Ideally, Sharpehaven Should be working the wheat, the bonus grass, and four mined hills; this holds it steady at pop 6. Two of the hills will have to be a specialist instead, until the poprush wears off, but ultimately, Sharpehaven doesn't need any more grasses than the wheat and bonus until it builds an aqueduct.

quote: -mining Rich Hill in RedBricks and converting 1 or 2 grassland squares to irrigation from mining too

We should definitely convert the bonus grass (and mine the forest, too); this would allow both Rich Hill and the river forest to be worked. The others should be left mined, IMO.

quote: -irrigating the Karina plains or mining the Karina bonus grasslands

Mining the bonus grass NE of the city will be needed at size 6. However, I don't think more work needs to be done till the city builds an aqueduct and solves the resulting unhappiness as well.
Once that is accomplished, I think a bonus grass (the one west of the city) should be irrigated. This, plus the cattle, will allow all five hills to be worked. Irrigated plains can make up the rest of the size-9/size-11/size-12 tiles.

quote: -mining the Dyefields dyes and its hill

Definitely needs to be done, and has been neglected.

quote: -creating a road NW and NW-N of Panama to increase the speed of transporting units to and from Legos Minor (we can irrigate these areas for future use too)

Good idea too. Panama should be building another worker soon, ~5 turns from now.

	26-06-2003 20:30									#397
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe quote: 4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina Unless I have missed something, wouldn't taking the road to Karina be a lot faster? If this route is to burn off any fog or spot any units, we can always have the GG galley pass by to do the same.

MightyMerc is the regular merc N-N of the iron hill. He will be taking the road to Karina. The one you're likely to be looking at (NuMeric, the vet one W of Zargonia) is to end up being the Zargonia garrison.

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Jason Jr. SE-SE-SE (then mine, then NE and clear jungle). That desert tile likely will not be used; roading it is simply the only job available in the time span needed for worker integrations. ( using Robbie and the new guy.)

Oh, of course, you are correct - I kept shuffling the workers around for so long that I did not eventually realize Jason was there sort of "unnecessarily" (it took me quite some time to figure out the correct, "effective" sequence. Agreed - Jason can be better used in the Dye Fields area. Plans updated accordingly.

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Legopolis (21): Yes, goldrush the Colosseum and switch back to a Cathedral. However, that timeline won't quite work for growth, as we had only one surplus food in Legopolis this turn. (Should've adjusted it last turn. ) To grow in 4 turns (3 turns counting from 117), we need to switch the citizens on both hills NE-E and NE and put them on grasses S and SE. This will produce 3 food and 12 shields. Next turn, we switch one laborer back to a hill, producing 13 spt (25 shields total). Growth should provide the needed 15 shields, especially if we set the governor to emphasize production.

Oh, damn... one oversought food and the plan is gone... But your fix should work nicely, Kloreep! Plans corrected.

	29-06-2003 00:04									#398
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Small changes to the posted plans:

a) new Jackson horse and Forkman moved to the Jackson-D.F. white camp and fortified there. Can now be immediately moved to and fortified in Jackson or Dye Fields.
b) Farmerville labourer reassigned from grass SE to the forrest, governor set to emphasize production - hopefully, our next worker will be ready on the very next turn, as the 2 extra shields from the mined desert should add up to +6spt, which is all we need to finish the worker there.

Observations:
I. Salamanca dropped from pop 2 to pop 1 (means no wonder prebuild there until Turn 117)


Plans for 210BC (Turn 118):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move S-S-SE

2) Angus to disembark E

3) Gaul to board G.B. (W)

4) Dycedarg to board G.B. (W)

5) Misty to sentry
controlling The Sandbox, making sure no barbs from the Northern Mountains reach our core area

6) MightyMerc to move SW and fortify in Karina

7) G.G. to sentry
becoming the first part of our early warning galley screen

8) DyeHard to move NE, back to the civilized lands

9) Silver to kill the barb warrior S

10) Troy to skip turn, healing
will go to check the valley along the western coast then

11) settler+Beta+Howard to move W

12) Conan to skip turn
waiting for the upgrade (read: waiting for more money)

13) new Panama horse to be named 'Arthur' and moved SE-SE-SE-SE-S-SE
(heading for the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site)


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Rover to move SE, then mine
15) Farmer to move SE, then mine

16) Jason Jr. to mine

17) Robbie to move NW-NW-NW, then road, then join Legopolis

18) new Jackson worker to be named 'Johan Sebastian' and moved SW-W, then road, then join Legopolis
obviously, to build the Bach's Cathedral in Legopolis, we will need Johan Sebastian (Bach) to direct the operations... thus the name change from 'Richard' to 'Johan Sebastian'

19) Forrest to road, then mine

20) Jack to road

21) Jinxo to road

22) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Gus' and moved NW
teaming up with Stanley - will help him road in 1 turn and then N, N-N-N, and mine the Rich Peak


City Management

23) reassign Legopolis labourer from the fully improved riverbank grassland SE to the fully improved hill NE of the city

The timeline:

T117: 120S in bank, +12 spt, 13F in bank, +3fpt
T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
(reassigning one grass labourer back to a hill)
T119: 145S in bank, (13+ at least 2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral hopefully finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

24) Jackson to start building a horseman

25) reassign Farmerville labourer from the forest to the fully improved grass SE of the city
better commerce, no shield output difference (will swap back on the next turn - seems we have found the "balanced" state for Farmerville, allowing it to build a new worker every two turns)

26) new Forkmouth citizen to become a taxman

27) reassign Forkmouth labourer to work the floodplains instead of the roaded grassland
faster growth, same commerce

	29-06-2003 01:05									#399
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Did the WF shuffling exercise again (Turn 118):

Maxxing out our commerce yields a GNP of 217 - still #2. This is only 10% more than our real commerce - great efficiency!

Maxxing out shields yielded Mfg. Goods of 92 - still #2. Normally, our Mfg. Goods is 74 (20% less).

Maxxing out productivity yielded a total of 255 - still #2. This is only 5 more than our real productivity - great!

Now, looking for #3s:

#3 in Mfg. Goods has 55 megatons (19 less than we do -more than 25% less); change +1
#3 in GNP/commerce has 129 million (66 less than we do - that's less than 2/3 of our GNP!); change: -4
#3 in Productivity has 177 (73 less than we do - that's about 70% of our productivity)

Our military is weak vs. GS, strong vs. Vox, average vs. everybody else. Ligurian tribes reported nr Logville.

	29-06-2003 03:39									#400
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I may be missing something, but why was that urgent to rush the Cathedral in Legopolis? We have no-Sistine clauses with everybody except Spain, who we agreed that don't really have chances to build a wonder before us. The rush was quite expensive and I'm not sure that we couldn't have waited 2 or 3 more turns.

Edit: I know this is already too late for this question, so I expect an answer only to satisfy my curiosity.

	29-06-2003 04:51									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I may be missing something, but why was that urgent to rush the Cathedral in Legopolis? We have no-Sistine clauses with everybody except Spain, who we agreed that don't really have chances to build a wonder before us. The rush was quite expensive and I'm not sure that we couldn't have waited 2 or 3 more turns. Edit: I know this is already too late for this question, so I expect an answer only to satisfy my curiosity.

The true reason for partially rushing the cathedral build in Legopolis is that we would like to build TWO wonders in Legopolis now - first, the Bach's Cathedral, second, the Sistine's Chapel. That will make us independent on the imported luxuries (and it is very likely that when the "assault at Fortress Legoland" happens, we will be lux-embargoed by everybody or almost everybody).

Thanks to our deals with other teams, the Sistine's is "almost safe" and can be (taking a reasonable risk) built later - the only team we will have to watch for wonder building activities will be Spain/RPers... and who knows, we may be able to get that clause later on...). RPers are definitely unable to beat us to the FIRST 600-shield wonder (which will probably be the Bach's for us). However, they might be able to beat us to the SECOND 600-shield wonder (which we assume will be the Sistine's for us), if they wanted to and tried hard. For this second wonder, we will need every single turn to be faster than them (if they really decide to go for the Sistine's, that is... which is unlikely, but not totally impossible).

Partially rushing the cathedral speeded up its completion by 3 turns. Legopolis will spend these three saved turns at pop 9, producing at least 20 shields per turn. That's at least 60 shields total - 10% of the total wonder shield cost. Considering we have no pressing need for gold, effectively "buying" 10% of the wonder for 232 gold sounds like a good deal.

Plus, this also means we will finish the happiness wonder 3 turns earlier - and since Bach's Cathedral makes two unhappy citizens content in every city, all our cities will be able to grow beyond pop ~6 these three turns earlier... which means further benefits, though their quantification would be difficult ATM.

The reason for building the Bach's Cathedral first is that it decreases the number of unhappy citizens in every city with no other prerequisites - unlike the Sistine's Chapel that needs a 160-shield cathedral to affect the city in question.

Personally, if we had to choose between the Sistine's and Bach's, I would prefer Bach's... though having both is what we should try VERY hard to get. With both of them, our cities with a temple and cathedral will be able to operate at pop 4+1+1+3+3+2=14! (base, dyes, temple, cathedral, Sistine's, Bach's). Add a colosseum, and it's 16. For most of our cities, this means working all fine tiles.

	29-06-2003 05:46									#402
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No, I don't agree with this. We should get Sistine out of the way first, especially if RP is building it (yes I know we will beat them to it regardless).

As for Bach, I don't think we will get the chance to build it as I suspect some other team, especially one on Bob will try to get it first. As it is we are having to race RP for Sistine. If by some unusual situation RP does beat us to Sistine, then we can feel free to switch to Bach.

Plus as I have been saying frequently the other civs will regard the building of Bach as fulfillment of the "no-Sistine clause". And most of all, the other civs WON'T allow us to have both happiness wonders. In the MP games that I have played (admittedly Civ 2), Bach and Michelangelo/Sistine Chapel were rarely built by the same civ and when they were, each time that civ was targeted for extermination by all the other civs.

Besides, there are other very necessary things we have to build aside from happiness wonders - as well we do have a monopoly on dyes that we can trade for other luxuries too.

That being said, let's drop this argument for now and simply refer the Legopolis build as the "Happiness Wonder" and have a vote on it as its completion date nears. Frankly, I don't want to have arguments back and forth for the next month or so until it is done.

Last edited by Sharpe on 29-06-2003 at 06:48

	29-06-2003 11:24									#403
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Partially rushing the cathedral speeded up its completion by 3 turns. Legopolis will spend these three saved turns at pop 9, producing at least 20 shields per turn. That's at least 60 shields total - 10% of the total wonder shield cost. Considering we have no pressing need for gold, effectively "buying" 10% of the wonder for 232 gold sounds like a good deal. Plus, this also means we will finish the happiness wonder 3 turns earlier - and since Bach's Cathedral makes two unhappy citizens content in every city, all our cities will be able to grow beyond pop ~6 these three turns earlier... which means further benefits, though their quantification would be difficult ATM.

Thinking at the rush from this POV makes it indeed look good. 10% from the total wonder build cost for 230 gold is a good deal. Plus the 3 turns we would gain for growing our cities is a nice bonus (so yes, I agree building the Bach's first, especially because the Sistine is almost secured; but then, we have enough time for thid debate).

	01-07-2003 13:18									#404
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Plans for 190BC (Turn 119):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move NW-N-N, then N-N-NW
carrying reinforcements/barbhunters to Legos Minor

2) Angus to skip turn, waiting for upgrade

3) DyeHard to move NW-W (will guard the two workers)

4) Alexander to move W-S, then S, then sentry
making sure the worker chopping the forest near Logville will not be slain by a barb horse coming from the FoW

5) Silver to sack the barb camp SE-SE

6) Archibald to move NE-E, then NE
lifting up the last bit of FoW in our "interior" - a barb camp THERE would be more of a nuisance than convenient cash opportunity... let's farm in the South only

7) Troy to moved S-SE, looking for barb camps

8) Howard to attack the barb warrior NW

9) settler+Beta to move NW

10) Conan to skip turn, waiting for the upgrade

11) Arthur to move S-S-S-S-SE-S
(heading for the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site)


Worker Movement/Actions

12) Rover to mine
13) Farmer to mine

14) Robbie to road, then join Legopolis
15) Johan Sebastian to road, then join Legopolis

16) Charlie to road

17) Stanley to road
18) Gus to road

19) Jimbo to move NE-NE-N, then NW & mine
helping Ken, getting in sync with him (will be able to either mine & road the "overlap" hill between Tarzania & Zargonia or clear that jungle tile, which is preventing the "military" road the between the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site and Tarzania from being built fast

20) new Logville worker to be named 'Luke' and moved W, then SW, then chop forrest


City Management

21) Legopolis WF to stay as is

The timeline:

T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
T119: 145S in bank, (13+ at least 2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral hopefully finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

22) Jackson (new) labourer to work coast
(should have worked coast this turn already ...)

23) reassign Farmerville labourer from the fully improved grass SE to the forest E-SE of the city
usual WF shuffling, allows building workers in two turns in Farmeville... (as the two shields from the forest help to have both the extra shields we get from the mined desert thanks to the new pop point unwasted)

23a) reassign the new Dye Fields labourer from the hill to a coast
the shield is wasted anyway, so let's get more commerce

24) new Zargonia labourer to work the hill being mined (SW of the city)

24a) reassign Karina labourers from the unimproved riverbank plains to the riverbank hills under improvement
Kloreep is right - we will be switching these anyway, so why not do it now and avoid any oversights in the future

25) Logville to start building a settler and work wheat NW, roaded riverbank grass W, and two coasts

26) Sharpehaven labourer to be reassigned from the roaded grassland S to a coast NW of the city
same growth, more commerce

27) Kloreepville labourer to be reassigned from the irrigated grassland E to the mined hill NE
same growth, much more production

28) knock the research slider down a notch
Edu still in 2 turns, so let's save some cash...

Last edited by vondrack on 03-07-2003 at 16:41

	02-07-2003 01:37									#405
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Also add: Move Karina citizens on plains E and SE to hills SE-S and SE-E. (Needs to be done soon, might as well do it now; there's no change till they're mined, though.)

	03-07-2003 21:29									#406
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Plans for 170BC (Turn 120):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move N-N-NW

2) Gaul to disembark NW
3) Dycedarg to disembark N
Gaul will cover the SW flank and Dycedarg the NE flank of the The New Voice area

4) Angus to upgrade to medieval infantry for 20g

5) DyeHard to sentry, guarding the two workers

6) Alexander to move S, then sentry
making sure the worker chopping the forest near Logville will not be slain by a barb horse coming from the FoW

7) Silver to move NW-W, then NW-N

8) Archibald to move NE, then sentry
lifting up the last bit of FoW in our "interior" - a barb camp THERE would be more of a nuisance than convenient cash opportunity... let's farm in the South only

9) Troy to move NW-N, looking for barb camps
(M.A. reports Patzinal tribes "near Karina")

10) Howard to attack the barb warrior NE
11) settler+Beta to move NE
now, I know this will probably be controversial... after thinking this over, I believe it will be prudent to delay the foundation of The New Voice by 2 turns. The reason is that if we founded it and gifted it to Voxes on this very turn, it would be 99% sacked - as Howard will manage to kill the barb NE, the barb W-SW will move next to the city... and as Howard will not be able to enter the city on Turn 121 (since it will already belong to Voxes), that barbarian will sack the city on turn 122 - just before the poprushed spear would be available.

OTOH, if we delay by two turns, Howard will kill at least the barbarian NE and Gaul & Dycedarg will be much closer once the city is founded (actually able to strike at the tiles NE to SW of the city, while Howard will be able to cover the tiles N, NE, and W of the city). Hopefully, that should be enough to keep the city safe for three turns (one to found it, the second to hand it over to Voxes, the third to poprush the spear).

12) Conan to upgrade to medieval infantry for 60 gold
I guess we are back on track with our gold reserves - plus, we will receive 230 gold from GS within a turn or two... so let's get rid of the upgrades.

13) Arthur to move SE-SE-SE-SE-E-N, then fortify
to be stationed at the site of the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp (Frank Jr. should build the road for Arthur, after roading his Zargonia SW hill)


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Robbie to join Legopolis
15) Johan Sebastian to join Legopolis
both only on condition the cathedral is finished, of course

16) Stanley to move N, then N-N-N, then mine
17) Gus to move N, then N-N-N, then mine

18) Ken to mine
19) Jimbo to move NW and mine
helping Ken, getting in sync with him (will be able to either mine & road the "overlap" hill between Tarzania & Zargonia or clear that jungle tile, which is preventing the "military" road the between the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site and Tarzania from being built fast

20) Frank Jr. to road

21) Luke to move SW, then chop forrest

21a) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Bill' and moved NE, then E-E, then clear jungle


City Management

22) Legopolis (joined by J.S. and Robbie) to work cattle, bonus grass, five hills, and one regular grass; start building a colosseum (Bach's prebuild, to be changed to a university once we discover Edu)
hopefully, the cathedral will be finished, so let's join the workers and get some real building done!

The timeline:

T119: 145S in bank, (13+ at least 2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral hopefully finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

23) Jackson labourers to be reassigned from hills to coasts
I did not do the switch as planned, because the extra commerce was wasted anyway - which will not be the case, if we squeeze TWO more extra commerce on the last turn of the horseman build.

24) reassign Farmerville labourer from the forest to the fully improved grass SE of the city; start building another worker
better commerce, no shield output difference (will swap back on the next turn - seems we have found the "balanced" state for Farmerville, allowing it to build a new worker every two turns)

25) make sure the new Kloreepville labourer works the irrigated grassland
Kloreepville shall work both irrigated grasses and the mined hill NE.

26) make sure we get Edu in 1 turn - if not (unlikely), change some taxmen into scientists

Last edited by vondrack on 04-07-2003 at 02:17

	04-07-2003 01:08									#407
	Got spare money?

Agreed with delaying New Voice. But let's contact Voxes and make sure they don't need the city sooner.

Also add: New Farmerville worker to be named "Bill" and moved NE (then clear that jungle tile)

Make sure Farmerville laborers are on wheat, two bonus grasses, and grass SE of the city. Build another worker.

New Kloreepville laborer should be on the second irrigated grass. (We can fit one turn of one-grass work in and still have the city grow in 4 turns, but let's do it later, when Charlie finishes his road.)

	04-07-2003 02:16									#408
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Agreed with delaying New Voice. But let's contact Voxes and make sure they don't need the city sooner.

OK, just doing that.

All other suggestions incorporated into the plan.

	06-07-2003 23:05									#409
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Plans for 150BC (Turn 121):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to skip turn

2) Gaul to move NW, covering the SW flank of The New Voice area

3) Dycedarg to move N, covering the NE flank of The New Voice area

4) Angus to fortify in Panama
5) new Panama horse to be name 'Horace' and fortified
strenghtening the Panama defenses

6) Alexander to move SE, then S-W
gets within the striking distance of the barb camp while not exposing himself to a barb warrior attack

7) Arthur to fortify in Tarzania-Zargonia white camp

8) Silver to move E-N, then N

9) Troy to move N-NE, looking for barb camps

10) Archibald to fortify

11) Howard+settler+Beta to move SW, back to The New Voice site

12) Conan to move E, then E-E-SE, SE-SE-SE, and E-N to the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp

13) new Jackson horse to be name 'Victor', moved S-S and fortified


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Jack to move SE-E and mine
15) Robbie to move NE-NE and mine, then SW-SW and join Legopolis
16) Johan Sebastian to move NE-NE and mine, then SW-SW and join Legopolis
since Robbie and J.S. will have to wait one more turn for the cathedral to complete, why not mining that desert... better than idling - we will be able to use the desert to slow down Jackson's growth whenever needed. Jack helps to finish the mine in one turn and allows Robbie and J.S. to join Legopolis on the next turn.

17) Jason Jr. to move NE, then E, mine & road
let's first up the shield output of D.F., the last dye jungle tile can wait

18) Jinxo to move N, then road, then N, then road & mine
linking Panama with Kloreepville, getting to the Panama area (Panama could use one more mined hill, that's for sure)

19) Forrest to mine

20) Stanley to move N-N-N, then mine
21) Gus to move N-N-N, then mine

22) Bill to move E-E, then SE, then clear jungle
We should clear the jungle S of Tarzania first, because we need to build a military road there from the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp to Tarzania.

23) Luke to chop forest


City Management

24) Legopolis labourer working a hill to be made a taxman
we must first get out of the anarchy...

25) one Jackson labourer to be reassigned from a mined hill to coast; start building merc

26) reassign Farmerville labourer from the fully improved grass SE to the forest E-SE of the city
usual Farmerville workforce shuffling to allow building a new worker every two turns

27) new Panama citizen to be made a taxman; start building a worker

28) Forkmouth taxman to become a labourer and work the roaded grass N-NW of the city; start building a merc
same commerce as on coast, faster growth (the new pop point will become a specialist)

29) new Sharpehaven pop point to become a taxman

30) new Tarzania labourer to work the roaded hill


31) if Edu not discovered set research to 10%, otherwise go for Astronomy at max research, keeping the positive cashflow - probably 50%
hopefully, Edu WILL be discovered... but if not, there might be a way to set our research to 0% and finish the Education research with scientists only - we should be 8 beakers short and 8 scientists should be doable... but we will need to play with the save a bit to see if it is better to go for 0%+scientists or 10%+taxmen and labourers.

32) if Edu discovered, send Theology as accepted to GoW
as per our treaty

33) if Edu discovered and money from GS received, send Education as accepted to GS
as per our treaty... if they do not send the money, offer Education as "unaccepted"

Anyway - I suggest that we do not rush this turn and first examine/discuss what we can do to minimize our losses.

Last edited by vondrack on 07-07-2003 at 01:11

	06-07-2003 23:13									#410
	Increase Your PM Length

If we do get Edu this turn, we are obligated to trade it to GoW for Chivalry, as per our agreement.

	07-07-2003 00:00									#411
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Not really. The agreement says that the trade will take place when the last tech involved is discovered. If Chivalry is not yet available, we must wait.

Here is the relevant part of the treaty:

quote: 5) The trade shall happen right after the last of the three techs is discovered. First, Theology shall be sent as "accepted" to GoW. On the next turn, GoW will send "accepted" Chivalry and its World Map, and Legoland will send "accepted" Education.

So we must ask GoW when do they expect Chivalry. We then must send Theology one turn earlier and Edu one turn later.

We should also ask GoW what are their future research plans and tell them that we are going to research Astronomy, which makes trade with them possible. They might want iron ... Besides, keeping them trading with us is essential; hopefully they will find another target, not us.

	07-07-2003 00:47									#412
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: 22) Bill to move E-E, then SE, then clear jungle

I wonder if we should clear the jungle SW of Tarzania first - if we build a road there we can then build another road S and SE to the camp as well as connect up Tarzania to Farmerville. The only danger is if someone captures Tarzania this would make it a little easier for them to reach Farmerville with mounted units.

Not sure which is better though.

Other than that I am fine for the south for the next turn plans.

	07-07-2003 00:56									#413
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GoW has had Chiv for several turns now. I had spoken them to it a while back, and they were just waiting on our end for things.

	07-07-2003 00:59									#414
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I wonder if we should clear the jungle SW of Tarzania first - if we build a road there we can then build another road S and SE to the camp as well as connect up Tarzania to Farmerville. The only danger is if someone captures Tarzania this would make it a little easier for them to reach Farmerville with mounted units.

The reason for preferring to clear the jungle S of Tarzania first is that a road through that tile will allow units from the white camp to move into Tarzania and fortify there in a single turn (unlike if using a road through the tile SW of the city).

	07-07-2003 01:44									#415
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX GoW has had Chiv for several turns now. I had spoken them to it a while back, and they were just waiting on our end for things.

Am I the only one who didn't know that? Did I miss it or you didn't tell us?
If everybody knew it, why didn't we start talking about future tech deals with them? Not knowing what GoW is doing right now (like stockpiling money for Rider upgrades) is the last thing we need right now.
Maybe we could persuade them to research Printing Press.

	07-07-2003 02:14									#416
	Got spare money?

GoW will go for Invention, that I am quite sure of - since they are building Leo's in their capital. No way they would go for PP...

	07-07-2003 02:35									#417
	Full PM-box? Change here!

But Invention is yet far away. First Vox needs to finish Eng. and then GoW, who isn't the fastest researcher, Invention.
Besides there is also ND and RP who don't have anything else to research. Maybe we could convince one of them then to go for PP.
Oh well, invention for astronomy is not a bad trade.

	07-07-2003 03:00									#418
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quote: 25) one Jackson labourer to be reassigned from a mined hill to coast; start building merc

Both Jackson coast laborers should be moved back to their hills... the one extra commerce is corrupted, so both hill laborers have to be moved to coast to benefit us.

Also, what is Jackson building next? I don't recall the queue, but I'd say a worker would be best; it can still get over 10spt at size 5, so further builds shouldn't be delayed, and even a cat would lead to one turn of wasted food. (Not to mention that would waste the barracks.)

quote: Anyway - I suggest that we do not rush this turn and first examine/discuss what we can do to minimize our losses.

	07-07-2003 08:44									#419
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Our Wisemen have discovered Education!

Moving both Jackson labourers to hills (moving one lab to coast makes no difference).

Btw, Jackson is growing in 3 while a cat takes 2 turns; after the cat Jackson would build a worker so no food would be wasted, unless I'm mistaken.

	07-07-2003 11:51									#420
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OOPS! Important!! We have to reassign the WF in Red Bricks to prevent growing to pop 6 there! One of the labourers working the regular grasses must be reassigned to work the other forest (speeds up the marketplace build, too).

EDIT: And why on Earth are we switching the Forkmouth build from horse to a merc???