12-07-2003 12:36									#451
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Some suggested changes: 7) Alexander to sentry instead Alexander E-SW to eliminate the possibility of barb or enemy being near Luke

What about E-NE, to the tile Luke is currently chopping forest on? That would provide him with a sufficient cover, while maximizing chances of a barb camp respawning somewhere near that cattle... E-SW (or SE, for short ) effectively prevents that from happening.

	13-07-2003 11:13									#452
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Northern MB plans for 50 BC:

Jinxo to road
Leopold N-N and mine
Michael to clear jungle
Peter W-NW and mine?
Move Panama plains laborer to the hill E

	14-07-2003 05:49									#453
	Remove this text

Southern MB plans for 50 BC:

George to irrigate/road
Peter N and clear jungle (Red Bricks will need another spot soon enough anyway)
Fritz E-E and irrigate/road
Luke to road
Frank Jr. move north and help clear jungle
Mark S-SW-S (to build road towards ahmyfoot)
Logger to road

Forkmouth to start settler
Zargonia to start settler

Farmerville laborers on NW flood plains to move to bonus grassland (assuming that we can afford to go to size 7 if not move the other NW Flood Plains to the other grassland)
Zargonia roaded grassland to become tax collector (don't mind the food loss we will need to avoid the size 6 limit anyway)

Note: We need to test whether an irrigation path is possible from the rivered mountain or not as if it is (doubtful) that might influence the position of ahmyfoot

Btw, I didn't notice that we fell to 2nd in Literacy in the 90bc turn - I suppose that means that someone is building more libraries than us?

Last edited by Sharpe on 14-07-2003 at 06:00

	14-07-2003 06:38									#454
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Re: Literacy - yep. My bet for #1 lit is GS. (What? No takers? )

Re: Peter - RB can't function above pop 6 until the Cathedral and/or Bach's. With the irrigated grass, the river forest, the gold mountain, and three mined grasses, it has quite enough tiles to work, so I figured he could speed up the mining of Sharpehaven's hills (Sharpehaven can work 4 of them thanks to the wheat, after all).

Also, why change Zargonia's grass worker to a specialist? It's the same amount of commerce and less food. If Zargonia does hit 20 food, it'll just stay there till an aqueduct or pop unit is built (at which point the city can instantly grow back); a waste, granted, but not yet. And the grass worker could eventually be moved to a hill if Frank Jr moves NE and mines (+roads)

Edit: One more addition to my plans. Red Bricks citizen on the grass S-SE to move to the irrigated grass S-SW, and the forest laborer to move to the gold mountain. This should bring in more commerce and free up another mined grass for Farmerville.

Last edited by Kloreep on 14-07-2003 at 06:46

	14-07-2003 07:45									#455
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I doubt it is GS - due to their still low Culture rating despite 3 wonders! and unless it increases by quite a bit over the next few turns- I wonder if it is RP or ND as their culture have been increasing steadily recently.

re Zargonia: admittedly it would stay there at 20 food (sorry still used to Civ 2 rules I guess) so I guess we can keep it as is since an extra shield would be just corrupt although the extra gold from a taxman wouldn't hurt I suppose...

re Frank Jr. - no I think we need to clear that jungle as soon as possible - I know that the fish will be used for labor shortly but we should get that road connection done quickly.

re Peter - yeah, that was the other possibility - so I will agree with Kloreep - use his instructions for Peter then.

	14-07-2003 13:00									#456
	Put an end to popups!

I posted full orders yesterday and they're gone! grrrrr.... fortunately, I had them jotted down on a piece of paper, so I am reposting them here. Commenting wherever different from Kloreep/Sharpe (please, discuss):

Plans for 50BC (Turn 126):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move W-SW-W, back to the bay

2) Gaul to move E
3) Dycedarg to skip turn
4) Howard to skip turn, finally healing

5) Horace to move S-S
6) Misty to move S

7) Alexander to move SW-SW
8) Silver to move N-N

9) Troy to move N-W, heading for F'mouth (upgrade)

10) Dyehard to move N-N-NE, heading for F'mouth (upgrade)

11) settler to move S-S-S
12) Darth Merc to move S-S-S
I understand that they are heading for the Ahhmyfoot site, right?

13) new Forkmouth merc to be name 'Forkmerc' and moved W(-W-W, if we receive Engineering from Vox)
will become the escort/garrison for the Logville settler.


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Michael to clear jungle

15) Jinxo to road, then mine

16) Leopold to move N-N and mine

17) Fritz to move E-NE-NE, then chop
there is little reason to irrigate/road that regular grassland NE-NE of F'mouth - would not be used by the city anyway (F'mouth's primary source of food is the floodplains tile + the game, bringing the total food surplus to +5fpt, which is more than enough to work all the hills). So I suggest we use Fritz to speed up the cathedral build in Red Bricks by chopping the forests. After all, we may be lucky and uncover a bonus grassland under one of them... which would speed the build even more.

18) Peter to move W-NW, then road & mine

19) Frank Jr. to move N, then clear jungle

20) Mark to move S-SW-S, then SW, then road
building a road towards the Ahhmyfoot site; AFAIK, we have already confirmed it is not possibility to irrigate over a hill, even if there is a city on the hill.

21) Logger to irrigate, then road
just swapping the order of road/irrigate - this way, it should be optimal:

T126: Rover done irrigating, Logger starts irrigating
T127: Rover starts roading, Logger done irrigating
T128: Rover done roading, Logger starts roading
T129: Rover moves N-NE, Logger done roading
(Rover can move 2 tiles using the brand new road)
T130: Rover starts irrigating, Logger moves NE
T131: Rover done irrigating, Logger moves N
T132: Rover starts roading, Logger starts roading
T133: Rover done roading, Logger done roading
T134: settler uses the road to move NW-N-NE
T135: settler uses the road to move N-E
T136: settler founds Crossing, +3 food tile available

...and Rover & Logger continue first by roading further to the North, linking Crossing with Zargonia, then going back and mining some hills for Crossing.

22) Luke to road


City Management

23) Farmerville to work wheat, both bonus grasses, regular grasses SE & SE-SE, and forest
+5fpt, +5spt - growth in 2 turns, worker in 1 turn - we could go to pop 7, but would have to use a specialist then, which we should avoid if reasonably possible (if we keep producing 10S workers, the only two shield outputs that make sense are 5spt and 10spt - 10spt is out of reach, so let's stay at 5spt). The abovementioned setup should hopefully be balanced and allow producing a new worker every two turns, while operating at pop 5-6.

25) Forkmouth to start building a settler
though IF we do settlers in both Zargonia and F'mouth (I'd prefer doing 1 more merc in F'mouth before building a settler there), I would very much prefer using one of them for Oasis, which will need no garrison at all - we are running VERY thin on defenders. Only the Jackson-D.F. area has "more than lack" of them (still lacking at least two), the rest of our eastern coast has a mere one merc per city. That is ultimately insufficient to face even a raid, not mentioning an invasion...

26) reassign Panama labourer from the plains to the fully improved hill

27) reassign Red Bricks labourer from the forest to the gold mountain
28) reassign Red Bricks labourer from the mined grass S-SE to the irrigated grass S-SW
same production, same food surplus, more commerce

29) Zargonia to start building a settler


Re: libraries... all it takes to be better than us is three libraries. That's not so much...

There, reposted (and adjusted considering Kloreep's and Sharpe's orders). I hope the plan will stay here and not disappear again!

	14-07-2003 14:51									#457
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

17) Fritz to move E-NE-NE, then chop
there is little reason to irrigate/road that regular grassland NE-NE of F'mouth - would not be used by the city anyway (F'mouth's primary source of food is the floodplains tile + the game, bringing the total food surplus to +5fpt, which is more than enough to work all the hills). So I suggest we use Fritz to speed up the cathedral build in Red Bricks by chopping the forests. After all, we may be lucky and uncover a bonus grassland under one of them... which would speed the build even more.

Actually, Sharpehaven will need another square to use shortly so I was proposing to use that square to the NE-NE for Forkmouth and the roaded grassland being used by Forkmouth to the NW could be used by Sharpehaven for a little while.

Don't forget that aside from gold hill, those forests are the main shield sources (better than the mined grasslands) for RedBricks. I was thinking about suggesting chopping them after this irrigation/road was done though.

Hmm, another super long turn by the NDers... something has to be going on there...

	14-07-2003 15:17									#458
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They (ND) have sent the turn at 7 AM GMT. You have probably missed it.

It was a 12 hours long turn. Not a 24 hours "superlong" turn, but nevertheless it was unusually long for ND.

Last edited by Tiberius on 14-07-2003 at 15:22

	14-07-2003 15:21									#459
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Actually, Sharpehaven will need another square to use shortly so I was proposing to use that square to the NE-NE for Forkmouth and the roaded grassland being used by Forkmouth to the NW could be used by Sharpehaven for a little while.

It's true that Sharpehaven will need another tile soon - but I am not sure if we want it to be a 2-food tile, since pop 6 will be the maximum here until an aqueduct and some happiness improvements. And at pop 6, all we need is the city (+2fpt), the wheat (+4fpt), the bonus grass (+2fpt), and four hills (+4 fpt)... altogether +12fpt, just enough to feed 6 citizens. Note, that this setup uses no regular grasslands.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Don't forget that aside from gold hill, those forests are the main shield sources (better than the mined grasslands) for RedBricks. I was thinking about suggesting chopping them after this irrigation/road was done though.

At pop 6, Red Bricks can work only one of the forests anyway. But thinking of this, it may be better to chop the other forest, as that one is not by the river and will not be used (adjusting the plans). And after pop 6, we will need to work an irrigated grassland in order to be able to work a forest without losing food in the overall balance. That's 0F/2S total, which is the same as for two mined grasslands. BUT by chopping the forests, you get 20 shields (over 10% of the cathedral build) and the slight possibility of uncovering a bonus grassland - nothing to lose, something to gain.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Hmm, another super long turn by the NDers... something has to be going on there...

Yep - actually, I was expecting something to happen already on the previous turn... strange...

	16-07-2003 19:35									#460
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Just a side-note:

Thanks to the harbour in Zargonia and The Great Lighthouse in Hurricane, we are now able to trade with GS. However, I would suggest waiting until they approach us, as ATM, we have limited use for a luxury (it would not be useless, but its benefit would be limited). So, let them propose a deal - trading dyes for one of their luxuries (furs, as we shall get incense from ND within 10 turns) would be ok, but I do not feel we should pay anything extra. If they approach us, that is more likely to be the case.


Plans for 30BC (Turn 127):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to skip turn

2) Gaul to move S
3) Dycedarg to move N
4) Howard to skip turn

5) Horace to move SE and upgrade
6) Misty to move S, then sentry

7) Alexander to sentry
8) Silver to move NW, then sentry

9) Troy to move NW-NW, then upgrade

10) Dyehard to move N-N-NW, heading for F'mouth (upgrade)

11) settler to move S-S-SE
12) Darth Merc to move S-S-SE
I understand that they are heading for the Ahhmyfoot site, right?

13) Forkmerc to move SE-SE-SE
will become the escort/garrison for the Logville settler.


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Gus to move SE-SE-SE, then S, then clear jungle

15) Stanley to move N-NE-E, then SE-SE-SE, then S, then clear jungle

16) Forrest to move N, then road, then mine

17) Fritz to mine, then road

18) Peter to chop forest

19) Frank Jr. to clear jungle

20) Rover to road

21) Mark to move W, then road
building a road towards the Ahhmyfoot site

22) Farmer to move SW-S-W, then irrigate
preparing the Ahhmyfoot city radius

23) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Philippe' and moved SE-E, then road


City Management

24) Jackson labourers to work wheat, one bonus grass, and four coasts
merc exactly in 1 turn, max commerce, 1 turn growth delay we need

25) Farmerville to work wheat, irrigated floodplains, both bonus grasses, and the regular grass SE
growth in 1 turn, worker in 2 turns... hopefully, we will get rid of the poprush induced unhappiness problem SOON...

26) Red Bricks to work gold mountain, irrigated grassland, mined bonus grassland, two mined regular grasslands, and the riverbank forrest
before the cathedral is complete, we need to accumulate only 10 extra food - so, for the moment, no growth... let's use the forest, while it is there - we will switch to growth, but lower production, after the forest is chopped down.

27) if possible, make Logville taxman a labourer working a coast; reassign the labourer working the bonus grass N to the roaded plains
more commerce, growth still in 1 turn

28) if possible (no unhappiness problems), make the Sharpehaven taxman a labourer working the mined hill S-SE and reassign the labourer from the roaded grass S to an unimproved hill; if not possible, leave as is
optimizing the production - merc 1 turn faster

29) send dyes to GS (as 'unaccepted', I think - let's have the two luxuries tied to each other)

Last edited by vondrack on 21-07-2003 at 00:14

	16-07-2003 19:52									#461
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by vondrack However, I would suggest waiting until they approach us, as ATM, we have limited use for a luxury (it would not be useless, but its benefit would be limited). So, let them propose a deal - trading dyes for one of their luxuries (furs, as we shall get incense from ND within 10 turns) would be ok, but I do not feel we should pay anything extra. If they approach us, that is more likely to be the case.

First of all, some of our cities were artificially stopped in their growth because of happiness problems. Those cities could grow bigger or could change their tax collectors in laborers. Besides I don't really understand why would we wait for them contacting us. We could propose the deal and of course accept only a 1 to 1 deal, no extra payments. Should they ask for more (but I don't think so) we can still wait for the ND and possibly GoW luxuries. I'm not saying we can't wait until GS play their turn, maybe they'll contact us. But should they not, we ought to arrange the trade before our next turn.

Then where did you get that "incense from ND" from ? I fail to see any incense in ND's teritorry, but instead I can see 5 incences within the borders of GS (and one more in Vox) and only spices available for ND.

	16-07-2003 22:08									#462
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius First of all, some of our cities were artificially stopped in their growth because of happiness problems. Those cities could grow bigger or could change their tax collectors in laborers.

Some of the cities that were artificially growth restrained poprushed temples on Turn 107. The unhappiness shall wear off on the next turn, making the pre-aqueduct pop maximum of six THE problem for us.

Only our river cities could make use of a luxury before building an aqueduct:

Panama - would allow pop 7 (+3 raw shields and +2 raw commerce from working a fully improved hill); VERY USEFUL
Red Bricks - would allow pop 7 (+1 raw shield and +3 raw commerce from working a mined/roaded grassland); USEFUL, BUT NOT THAT MUCH
Forkmouth - would allow pop 7 (+3 raw shields and +2 raw commerce from working a fully improved hill), but is currently building a settler, to drop in pop soon; USEFUL ONLY AFTER RECOVERING THE POP
Farmerville - must remain at pop 6 max to be able to produce quick 2-turn workers; USELESS
Logville - would allow pop 7 (+3 raw shields and +2 raw commerce from working a fully improved hill); USEFUL

Legopolis - would allow pop 10 (+1 raw shield and +3 raw commerce from working a mined/roaded grassland), but would force us to use the lux slider or seriously slow the wonder build in case we lose that luxury; RISKY

So - if you look at the list, a new luxury is not all that stellar for us ATM. I suspect GS would profit more from having our dyes than we would profit from having their lux. Just look at their map - three of their cities (Tornado, Bolderberg, Tempest) have aqueducts, three more cities (Arashi, Eye, Hurricane) are on the river. Thus, I do not think there is any need to rush for the deal - once we strike it, we will be helping them more than ourselves.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Besides I don't really understand why would we wait for them contacting us.

See above - a 1 for 1 deal is better for them than for us. And we can't hope for getting anything better than 1 for 1. Refusing it would be bad for our relations, so once they offer it, let's be easy and take it, but I see no need to push it. We will be doing a favour to them, not the other way round.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Then where did you get that "incense from ND" from ? I fail to see any incense in ND's teritorry, but instead I can see 5 incences within the borders of GS (and one more in Vox) and only spices available for ND.

Errr.... spices, whatever ND promised us. That should be delivered within 10 turns. I mixed incense for spices.

	17-07-2003 08:32									#463
	Increase Your PM Length

Some Changes from Vondrack's list for 30 bc orders:

From:

21) Mark to move SW, then road
building a road towards the Ahhmyfoot site

22) Farmer to move SW-S-SW, then irrigate
preparing the Ahhmyfoot city radius

23) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Philippe' and moved SE-SE-SE, then irrigate
preparing the Oasis site for fast intro growth

To:

21) Mark to move W, then road - this path can be used as the beginning of the road to Quanto as well then

22) Farmer to move SW-S-W then irrigate to go to the same square as Mark

23) New Farmerville worker to be named Phillippe and moved SE-E then road the forest (might as well get the extra beaker from the forest when it is used plus this opens the possibility of a more direct connection from Farmerville to Tarzania)

Although it isn't my area given the change in orders for Mark and Farmer I would suggest that 8) be changed to Silver NW to the mountain to cover the workers better

Agree with 25 and also with 27 and 28 if we can avoid unhappiness for Sharpehaven and Logville (hope their poprushed unhappiness ends next turn - right now we can't of course due to the unhappiness)

	17-07-2003 10:59									#464
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Radek, I don't really understand your reasoning. So us proposing the trade is not OK (though it would give us ~ 10 shields and 10 commerce per turn) but them proposing the trade would be acceptable? This doesn't make sense: it is either useful or is not. If it is useful we could propose it or, if it isn't, we shouldn't accept it.

It is true that GS is probably our biggest rival on the long term, but Bob is more dangerous atm. They might decide after destryoing Spain that they just want to continue their warmongering. We need every shield and commerce now. We must build our infrastructure, our military, make some money for upgrades, etc.
3 shields, as little as it seems, meens a mercenary in 10 turns. (who said we can't change the settler build in Forkmouth?) 10 commerce in 10 turns is 100 gold in our treasury, enough to upgrade some units. Isn't this helpful?

PS1: I'd really like to hear what have the other fellow Legomen to say about this
PS2: let's move this from here to the Enlightened thread or the GS thread, to keep the "next move" thread uncluttered.

Last edited by Tiberius on 17-07-2003 at 11:10

	21-07-2003 03:41									#465
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Plans for 10BC (Turn 128):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move E-NE-NE
2) Dycedarg to move NW
3) Howard to move NE
rendez-vous with our brave guys on the Northeastern coast of Legos Minor... to not mess with the movement of the Voxian settlers too much

4) Gaul to move SW, to do some barb search and slowly get back home on foot

5) Horace to move E-E, to replace Misty
6) Misty to skip turn

7) Silver to sentry

8) Troy to move SE-SE, back to the SW wilderness

9) Dyehard to move NW-NW-NW, heading for F'mouth (upgrade)

10) settler to move SE-SE-SE
11) Darth Merc to move SE-SE-SE
heading for the Ahhmyfoot site

12) Forkmerc to move SE-E-E
heading for the Crossing site (will become its garrison)

13) new Jackson merc to be named Mercx (after the famous Belgian biker ) and moved SW-SW-SW
heading for the TarZar white camp (we are quite low on defenders in that area)

14) new Sharpehaven merc to be named 'Freddie' (Mercury) and moved S-SE-SE
will escort the Forkmouth settler to the Quanto site


Worker Movement/Actions

15) Forrest to road, then mine

16) Gus to move S, then clear jungle

17) Stanley to move SE-SE-SE, then S, then clear jungle

18) Mark to road
19) Farmer to road
if we use the pair to road now, then move S, and road again, we will be able to get the settler to the Ahhmyfoot site 1 turn sooner

20) Philippe to road

21) Logger to road

22) Luke to move S, then road towards the Tiberium site

23) George to road


City Management

24) Jackson labourers to work all improved tiles except the desert; start building another merc

25) Farmerville to work wheat, irrigated floodplains, both bonus grasses, regular grass SE, and forest
(means that the new labourer shall work the forest)

26) Panama to work all improved tiles

27) if possible (furs from GS), make the Forkmouth taxman a labourer working the fully improved hill NW-NW

28) reassign Zargonia labourers from the roaded and fully improved grasslands to coasts
one more net commerce, no shield loss

29) new Logville labourer to work the irrigated grassland N-NW of the city
let's get to max pop ASAP here, the FP is few turns away - Logville shall become second Panama as far as commerce is concerned

30) Sharpehaven to work all improved tiles except the mined hill S-SE of the city; start building a worker merc
to get +1 pop in 1 turn

31) Kloreepville to start building a catapult

Last edited by vondrack on 21-07-2003 at 15:50

	21-07-2003 07:26									#466
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Southern MB additions or changes:

14) new Sharpehaven merc to be named 'Freddie' (Mercury)

Actually why not just "Mercury" instead?

Sharpehaven to build Settler to go to Invoice site (if there is disagreement a worker is fine too as we need another there to help clear the jungle) - military unit will follow afterwards

George to road

Move Zargonia roaded grassland labourer to coastal square - unimproved hill won't decrease the build time for the settler - should give us 1 more beaker per turn

	21-07-2003 11:55									#467
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 14) new Sharpehaven merc to be named 'Freddie' (Mercury) Actually why not just "Mercury" instead?

We already have a merc named 'Mercurio' - could be confusing.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Sharpehaven to build Settler to go to Invoice site (if there is disagreement a worker is fine too as we need another there to help clear the jungle) - military unit will follow afterwards

I would very much prefer doing it the other way round - military first, settler afterwards. ATM, we've got one settler on his way (to Ahhmyfoot) and three more in production (Logville -> Tiberium, Zargonia -> Crossing, Forkmouth -> Quanto... and probably another one to be built in Farmerville -> Invoice very soon). That is a LOT of new cities to defend. As we plan to spend some time building infra in Panama, we have only 3 cities providing military units - Jackson, Sharpehaven, and Forkmouth. That's the very minimum we should be sticking to.

So, a worker to conserve the surplus food is the most I can imagine - I would still prefer to bring the city to pop 6, stop its growth (working the wheat, bonus grass, and four mined hills -> 0fpt, at least 10spt) and use it for a long time as a military factory.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Move Zargonia roaded grassland labourer to coastal square - unimproved hill won't decrease the build time for the settler - should give us 1 more beaker per turn

Unfortunately, not, the extra commerce is wasted in this case.

BUT - if we move BOTH grassland labourers to the coast, we will get one extra net commerce, while still not slowing the settler build. So, that is the way. Thanks for the hint.

	21-07-2003 15:17									#468
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Unfortunately, not, the extra commerce is wasted in this case.

True, just checked it out. Go with your plan instead.

quote: I would very much prefer doing it the other way round - military first, settler afterwards.

All right another merc then a settler or stop growth and continue the military buildup (with some infrastructure put in from time to time). With maybe a worker thrown in , I am very flexible about this.

As you say we do have a lot of cities to defend (although that is irrelevant in Invoice's case with its garrison already in place). Though it is true that we can use more military somewhere else.

We can have the Invoice settler built at Farmerville instead.

	25-07-2003 00:43									#469
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Plans for 10AD (Turn 129):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move N-N-N
2) Dycedarg to skip turn
3) Howard to move E
rendez-vous with our brave guys on the Northeastern coast of Legos Minor... to not mess with the movement of the Voxian settlers too much

4) Gaul to move SW, hunting barbs, slowly returning home

5) Horace to move NE, then sentry, replacing Misty
6) Misty to move SW-W, then W-W, then upgrade

7) Silver to attack barb horse W

8) Troy to move SE-S, back to the SW wilderness

9) Dyehard to move W-W-W, then upgrade

10) settler to move SE-S-S
11) Darth Merc to move SE-S-S
heading for the Ahhmyfoot site

12) Forkmerc to move SE, then SE, then SE, then S
heading for the Crossing site (will become its garrison)

13) Mercx to mov SW-SW-S
heading for the TarZar white camp (we are quite low on defenders in that area)

14) Freddie and moved SE, then wait for settler
will escort the Forkmouth settler to the Quanto site

15) Mercurio to attack the barb warrior W
higher chance of promotion on offense


Worker Movement/Actions

16) Jason Jr. to road

17) Jinxo to mine

18) Gus to clear jungle

19) Stanley to move S, then S, then clear jungle

20)new Farmerville worker to be named Martin and moved W-W-W, then W again, then mine & road
Forkmouth could easily work one more hill, so let's get it improved

21) Mark to move S
22) Farmer to move S
if we move the pair S now and then road, we will be able to get our settler to the Ahhmyfoot site 1 turn sooner

23) Rover to move NW, then mine & road
changed as per Steve's request

24) Luke to road



City Management

25) Farmerville to work wheat and all improved grasslands

26) Panama to work all improved tiles just forgot to erase this from the previous turns plan, which I used as the basis for this turn plans

27) reassign Forkmouth labourers from the mined hill NW-NW and floddplains to coasts
see follow-up posts... stops the city growth, keeping the foodbox at 18/20 food, yields the 7 needed shields and maxxes out commerce

28) new Sharpehaven labourer to work the mined hil S-SE

29) Tarzania to start bulding catapult

Last edited by vondrack on 26-07-2003 at 14:15

	25-07-2003 02:32									#470
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't think 26 is needed; Panama is fine with its WF where it is. (Growth to the now-stable size 7 in 5. )

Everything else

	25-07-2003 06:57									#471
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23) Rover to move N-NE, then road & irrigate

With about 6 turns before Crossing is founded, I think we have enough time to let Logger do the road/irrigate for Crossing.

For me I would rather move Rover W and irrigate the plains or preferably send him NW to mine the hill then road as Logville would otherwise still have a major shield shortage after the FP is done in 8 turns.

21) Mark to move S
22) Farmer to move S
if we move the pair S now and then road, we will be able to get our settler to the Ahhmyfoot site 1 turn sooner

Not sure for certain, but I doubt that even in tandem that they can get that road on the hill done in 3 turns (1 turn to move, 2 to road hill) when the settler would arrive. If they can't I would advise irrigating one or both of the plains.

Additions:

-Farmerville to build another worker I guess and if so do the Farmerville shuffle - however if we now decide to go for a settler then keep the forest being used (moving the non-wheat flood plain to the desert would cut down the time to build a settler by one turn but at the expense of food growth and one beaker/turn so I leave it up to the Pres or VP to decide which they prefer if we go for a settler).
-Forkmouth will only need 7 of its current 9 shields to finish the settler - so I would move a hill laborer to the grassland NE-NE of Forkmouth.
-Tarzania expands next turn, so move the unimproved grassland to the fish - should speed growth and improve commerce
-Since we are moving a laborer from a Forkmouth hill, I would suggest moving the new Sharpehaven laborer onto the hill.

Hmm, didn't realize until now that our size 7 cities rose from 3 commerce in the city square to 6 commerce - nice... we should keep this fact in mind when talking about optimal populations of cities.

Last edited by Sharpe on 25-07-2003 at 07:25

	25-07-2003 11:22									#472
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The No. 3 civ in the Mfg.Goods chart is now very close, at 99 shields. It must be ND, who are in their GA now.

Good thing we are still No.2 though, despite others benefiting from a GA. However, with ND possibly conquering more cities, we could fall on 3rd place soon (temporarily).

	25-07-2003 13:49									#473
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 23) Rover to move N-NE, then road & irrigate With about 6 turns before Crossing is founded, I think we have enough time to let Logger do the road/irrigate for Crossing.

I was following a schedule I posted few turns ago:

quote: Originally posted by vondrack T126: Rover done irrigating, Logger starts irrigating T127: Rover starts roading, Logger done irrigating T128: Rover done roading, Logger starts roading T129: Rover moves N-NE, Logger done roading (Rover can move 2 tiles using the brand new road) T130: Rover starts irrigating, Logger moves NE T131: Rover done irrigating, Logger moves N T132: Rover starts roading, Logger starts roading T133: Rover done roading, Logger done roading T134: settler uses the road to move NW-N-NE T135: settler uses the road to move N-E T136: settler founds Crossing, +3 food tile available

Now, if we divert Rover to somewhere else:

129: Rover out, Logger done roading
130: Logger moves NE
131: Logger starts roading
132: Logger done roading
133: Logger moves N
134: Logger starts roading, settler moves NW-N-NE
135: Logger done roading, settler moves N-E
136: Logger moves S and starts irrigating, settler founds Crossing (+2 food = 2 food in store)
137: Logger done irrigating (+3 food now, which perfectly fits the missing 18 food needed to grow to pop 2)

So, to changing the plan. Let's use Rover elsewhere.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe For me I would rather move Rover W and irrigate the plains or preferably send him NW to mine the hill then road as Logville would otherwise still have a major shield shortage after the FP is done in 8 turns.

However, I would suggest mining the hill N-NE of Logville (S-SW of the Crossing site). This hill will be usable by both Logville and Crossing, allowing some fine-tuning of their builds. The hill NW of where Rover is now will be of no use until Karina reaches pop 8 (as it does not grow ATM, so it will need at least 1 more pop to work a food surplus tile to be able to work another hill). And Logville will be able to use any of the two hills.

So, my suggestion now is: Rover to move N-E, then mine.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 21) Mark to move S 22) Farmer to move S if we move the pair S now and then road, we will be able to get our settler to the Ahhmyfoot site 1 turn sooner Not sure for certain, but I doubt that even in tandem that they can get that road on the hill done in 3 turns (1 turn to move, 2 to road hill) when the settler would arrive. If they can't I would advise irrigating one or both of the plains.

They will be done in time (hills take 3 worker-turns to road, so 2 turns for a worker pair):

129: workers move S, settler moves SE-S-S
130: workers start roading, settler moves S-SW-S
131: workers done roading, one of them moves N and starts irrigating settler moves W-S-SW
132: worker done irrigating, settler founds Ahhmyfoot, other worker may move SW-SW, to improve the bonus grass then

Since PtW1.21f patch, the worker jobs are finished ON THE BEGINNING of the corresponding turn, not the end, so all improvements appear BEFORE other units move.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -Farmerville to build another worker I guess and if so do the Farmerville shuffle - however if we now decide to go for a settler then keep the forest being used (moving the non-wheat flood plain to the desert would cut down the time to build a settler by one turn but at the expense of food growth and one beaker/turn so I leave it up to the Pres or VP to decide which they prefer if we go for a settler).

Unfortunately, we are - dunno why - still experiencing some poprush unhappiness in Farmerville (something with the archer poprush done centuries ago?). With 2 luxuries, we get 1-4-1 pop structure - the unhappy citizen still whines about poprushing... no idea, why, but this makes Farmerville not very suitable to settler builds ATM, as >6 pop will need specialists to remain content. Let's stick to the workers for a couple more turns (at least until the FP is finished, as that will hopefully lower the waste level in Farmerville, at least a bit, allowing settlers in 4-5 turns).

And for a worker pump, there is little shuffling needed:

128: +7F=7F, +5S=worker finished, pop drops to 5
129: +8F=pop grows to 6 -> +5S=worker in 2 turns again
130: see 128

It is a balanced state... on one turn, at pop 5, we work wheat and all four grasses, on the next turn, effectively at pop 6, we work the same plus the forest. Keeps the pop between 5/6 and produces a worker every two turns (while generating maximum commerce).

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -Forkmouth will only need 7 of its current 9 shields to finish the settler - so I would move a hill laborer to the grassland NE-NE of Forkmouth.

Good idea re: freeing that hill for S'haven... though, IIRC, last time we tried to time a settler completion in a pop 7 city (it was Legopolis at that time) to the moment the city reached 20 food in store, we ended up with the foodbox reset back to 10 out of 20 food (instead of having the city regain 1 pop point on the very turn the settler was finished). So, I propose:

labourer from the hill to a coast.
labourer from the floodplains to the coast, too

This will stop the growth and leave the foodbox at 18 food, which will hopefully be 18 food even at pop 5 (after the settler is completed)...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -Tarzania expands next turn, so move the unimproved grassland to the fish - should speed growth and improve commerce -Since we are moving a laborer from a Forkmouth hill, I would suggest moving the new Sharpehaven laborer onto the hill.

Agreed.

	25-07-2003 14:47									#474
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So, my suggestion now is: Rover to move N-E, then mine.

I chose the NW hill because of the river which would increase commerce - and besides it is not likely that Crossing will be using a hill for quite some time yet.

	25-07-2003 15:41									#475
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I chose the NW hill because of the river which would increase commerce - and besides it is not likely that Crossing will be using a hill for quite some time yet.

That's not really true - once the first 7 turns pass by, Crossing will have no choice, but to start using a 1 food tile (as the irrigated grassland will be the only 1+ food tile) - and a mined hill would be ideal.

BUT... I have completely forgotten that Crossing would be founded by a settler from Zargonia, not the one from Logville... so Logger does not need to road that desert tile. Thus, we can do it like this:

129: Logger done roading
130: Logger moves NE to the only Crossing grass
131: Logger starts roading, settler moves S from Zargonia
132: Logger done roading, settler moves SE
133: Logger starts irrigating, settler moves S
134: Logger done irrigating, settler moves SE
135: Logger starts roading, settler moves S to the Crossing site
136: Logger done roading, settler founds Crossing (+3 food tile available)
137: Logger moves NE
138: Logger starts roading
139: Logger roading
140: Logger done roading
141: Logger starts mining
142-145: Logger mining
143: Crossing grows to pop 2 (needs the hill)
146: Logger done mining

Now, Rover could:

129: move NW
130-132: road
133-138: mine
139: move NE-NE-NE
140-142: help Logger mine

affecting Logger's tasks:

140: Logger done roading, Rover starts mining (1)
141: Logger mining (2), Rover mining (3)
142: Logger mining (4), Rover mining (5)
143: Logger done mining (6), Rover ready, hill mine in place, Crossing grows to pop 2

This should help us have the riverbank hill fully improved ASAP and the other hill fully improved just in time.

OK?

	27-07-2003 19:38									#476
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Did some analysis re GNP, Mfg Goods and Productivity.

I am assuming GS is first in each category as I couldn't reach their totals during my analysis. Similarly I am assuming with only one city Vox is last.

Mfg Goods:
GS, Us 108, 99 (ND), 77 (GoW?), 58 (RP), Vox

GNP:
GS, Us 251, 218 (ND), 187 (GoW), 158 (RP), Vox

Productivity:
GS, Us 326, 289 (ND), 232 (GoW), 228 (RP), Vox

	28-07-2003 00:47									#477
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Southern MB plans for 30AD turn:

Forkmouth to start courthouse if settler is done

Martin W to mine/road the hill west of Forkmouth
Ken and Jimbo to road
Logger NE then irrigate/road
Farmer and Mark to road
George to move N-NE and irrigate that mine (we should try to move toward size 7 there) (or move him to the Forkmouth hill and speed up the mining there - haven't decided which yet)

Labor movements:
Sharpehaven to move from the S-SE hill back to the unimproved hill where Fritz is mining
Forkmouth to move the coastal squares to the now vacated hill and the improved grasslands
Farmerville shuffle to finish off worker
Make sure the new Tarzania laborer is on the bonus grassland
New Logville worker to either bonus grassland or coastal square

Can't think of anymore ATM.

Last edited by Sharpe on 28-07-2003 at 00:59

	28-07-2003 02:43									#478
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Northern MB for 30 AD (not much happening... yawn):
Stanley S
Legopolis: switch to Sistine Chapel - make sure we don't try to do it one turn till university and mess it up.
Jackson: Move both hill citizens and two bonus grassers to coast. Merc should still finish in one turn; if not, move one coaster back to a bonus grass.

	28-07-2003 03:12									#479
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Also, I'd like to add: Switch Kloreepville to a harbor instead of the cat. Will be done in 8 turns, and it can then build 4-turn caravels. After a comment by DeepO about "well, ND did start it," I think we might have to intervene on Bob with what we can. We'll need transports. An invasion of Legos, on the other hand, looks much less likely to me.

	28-07-2003 03:58									#480
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I also would like to switch Tarzania from a catapult to a merc (but only if the Jackson merc is changed see below) - I agree with Kloreep - an invasion of Bob by GS against ND and eventually GoW is coming soon.

If Kloreep agrees, it might be an idea to switch the Jackson merc to a knight. I suspect that the Jackson merc was heading south eventually and if so, the 8 vs 2 turn difference between Jackson and Tarzania can nearly be made up with less travel time.

If we don't change the Jackson merc, then the Tarzania merc should be changed probably to Med Inf instead.

We can always quickly build catapults if we are invaded.