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Carolus Rex
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Sweden
Jan 1970
time: 06:25
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I just downloaded it. A couple of questions from a computer non savant. The answers are probably in the thread somewhere, but loading the pages takes forever with a 56K modem on a Saturday night, so:
i) Which versions of civ does it run with?
ii) Where should I install the files?
iii) I read that there seems to be some problems depending on which OS you have. I use Windows 98, do I need one of the additional files (or was that only for older versions of Hutfinder)?
Thanks,
Carolus
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:25
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SG, could the program find the seed out also from coordinates of known specials (if a hut is not available in the beginning)?
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:25
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Tried to use HutFinder on Early Landing Comparison Game #2 last week; the Seed puts the specials in the right place but a few of them are wrong type. Interesting practical lesson on seeds. I tried your trick of adding 32 but have not found an exact match yet. HutFinder did identify two hidden specials which allowed early city placement to use them later...
Very useful, though. Many thanks. I now keep four windows open when playing: CIV2, NotePad, CIV2PLAN, and HutFinder. At the beginning of ELCG2 I also had a blank MapEditor open with the HF seed and painted in tiles as I explored. Since I learned to log beakers carefully I have dispensed with CIV2Beaker, and attempts to use M$Excel for Supply/Demand calculations slowed everything down and caused many lockups.
For a future version I could only wish for another Tab that kept a NotePad-like page open for my log, and another Tab that had stuff like Tech Paths(perhaps read from a text file?), Delivery Bonus Calculator, Terrain Chart, etc...
Hope you're not choking right now...
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:25
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I was up in the mid hundreds when I gave up...
No rush on the suggestions- I just use extra NotePads...
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:25
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If you start a blank map in MapEditor and then hit the letter "S" up comes a box that asks for Resource Seed. When you change it to anything above 1, the pattern of Specials (Whale and Fish) changes. There are repeating patterns that seem to follow in sets of 16, but given a few locations of specials in a random map you are playing you can often find a pattern that matches your layout but has specials of the wrong type. This means you have the right "base seed", but need to add increments of 16 until you get the right types in the right places.
Have you used MapEditor before? Have you noticed that when you "draw" a land tile on top of an ocean Special, it is also a Special of a particular (not random) type, unless it is grass? So the ocean patterns you see playing with a blank map also hold for land tiles, except for grass. That is what we meant by Hidden Specials, and that is why finding the right seed is important.
The other thing that has been discovered is that there is a mathematical relationship between Specials and Huts, also based on the Seed. In MapEditor, draw a large continent all of plains and you will see what we mean. Once you have found the first Hut, you can use the formula to find other huts as well. The utility called HutFinder just takes the X,Y coordinates of the first hut you find and generates a list of the nearest hut locations. Of course, on a random map some of these will fall on ocean tiles, so they will be missing. HutFinder also shows you the pattern of Specials based on a "base seed"; no guarantee at this point they are the right type.
All of this is info that has been documented and used by other players; HutFinder just makes it accessible in one package as a secondary window. Plus it has a list of OEDO years for those of us who are forgetful in our dotage (LaFayette?). If only it had a tickler to remind us just before we hit ENTER...
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by SG[1]
ST --
If I have undertood you - i disagree with you |
SG, this is how I understand the seed stuff (but I am not sure if I am right):
Every map has a real 'seed number' (shortly seed).
(An example: seed=290.) This number is stored in the .sav or .mp file.
There is only 64 different seeds, and so only seed mod 64 is important. Seed 34, 98 (=34+64), 162 (=34+2*64)... 290 (=34+4*64) are equal, i.e. positions of huts and specials and types of specials are equal.
(Our example (290) has 290 mod 64 = 34 and so is equal to seed 34.)
There is only 32 different seeds in aspect of positions of huts. Therefore seeds 2, 34, 66, ... 290 have equal positions of huts.
(Our example (290) has 290 mod 32 = 2 and so its hut layout is equal to seed 2.)
I have supposed that HutFinder shows seed mod 32, i.e. 2 for our example (290). From the knowledge of this value we can reason out that the real seed is 2 or 34 or 66 or... But all seeds after 64 are duplicates of 2 or 34, and so we can choose the real map seed among 2 and 34.
Last edited by SlowThinker on 03-04-2003 at 02:56
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20-03-2003 17:25
and HutFinder don't work - seems to need msvbvm60.dll 
Any idea?
(works fine as long as you don't show both)
Attachment: 
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