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CiverDan
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I can't see a civ on another continent trying this, unless they are alone. Otherwise they will be wasting resources that would be better served building, defending (and possibly attacking) on their homeland.
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Dominae
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Nice discussion concerning Bronze Working. I'm thinking that we should try to be friends with our neighbor(s) early on, in which case we could easily get BW from them since most teams research it as a top priority (if they do not want to trade it to us, they're obviously planning something...). Also, BW only has a cost of 3, which will get further depreciated as we meet civs. We could easily snag it at a 4-turn pace.
Then again, the "safe route" of just researching it ourselves is very attractive. I assume this is what we did on our first turn, so no point in dwelling on it.
But our second tech should definitely be Writing. The only other Commercial civ is India, meaning we have a good chance of trading Writing around for a fair price to many teams. It allows Comm. exchange which is sometimes a nice bargaining chip. And (most importantly), it opens up 4 techs which no one will be even close to starting on (include the Republic prereqs.).
This is all assuming, of course, that we're not going for an early rush, but instead a "strong builder" opening.
Dominae
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Dominae
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Oops, forgot something. I know Granaries are a debatable issue, but we should seriously consider doing:
Bronze Working
Pottery
Writing/whatever
Pottery costs almost nothing, meaning we'll get it during a Granary pre-build, after we've competed a few Warriors.
Yes, it depends on the terrain and geography, but an early Granary often spells "economic victory" over those civs that choose not to use them.
As Carthage, other teams will expect us to be defending with Mercs. Thus we can go one step further, and not defend with them, focusing instead on a strong economy (Carthage's strength).
Dominae
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I never trade Iron Working to anyone, unless I can see that they have no Iron! 
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There are just certain trades I won't make. Like I won't trade Democracy for Chemistry, Metalurgy, or Navigation (maybe all three together!). Or I won't trade Motorized Transportaion for Flight or Radio or both!
It's just not worth it to me, as proved by gameplay. There are not enough adavances available to the other civs in which I can lucuratively trade Iron Working for very many techs or gold; one reason is that contact has been made with very few civs and most civs are large enough to offer what I would consider fair compensation for a tech that they MIGHT just use against me!
Later in the game, "Tech Whoring" as it is often referred to, can be quite invaluable, especially in the MP arena with only Human players. We have to rember that we are in fact only playing other humans and that some of the things that you've learned to do in SP games or MP games with Computer players does not neccessarily apply to this game.
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quote:
Originally posted by joncnunn
If we are pretty much decided to reserach Bronze Working first, we should reserach Iron Working next.
Aquire Potery via trade or goody hut instead. |
My sentiments exactly! 
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by joncnunn
If we are pretty much decided to reserach Bronze Working first, we should reserach Iron Working next.
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Are we planning to use Iron Working for a military campaign? If not, our Mercs. are quite adequate for early skirmishes. If you're going to go "depth-first", might as well hit Writing instead.
quote:
Aquire Potery via trade or goody hut instead.
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Funny, you advocate the use of an early Granary, but rely on getting Pottery from outside sources. If we do go for a Granary, what will we do with a big pre-build if we do not aquire Pottery in time? Really, I would research Pottery first.
quote:
Depth first discoveries are much more efficent than breath first because we can trade with other civs researching along other lines, and in addition, the top level techs are much more likely to be granted by goody huts than the other techs. |
Really? Do you know this for a fact? You're saying that if I research Writing then pop a Hut, my chances of getting Philosophy, Literature, etc. are higher than of getting Ceremonial Burial? I do agree with you that depth-first is the way to go, but Pottery is the exception.
Dominae
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Dominae
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I'm against early war in this game, but if we do decide to take out our nearest neighbor, Horseback Riding would be the way to go.
Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Are we planning to use Iron Working for a military campaign? If not, our Mercs. are quite adequate for early skirmishes. If you're going to go "depth-first", might as well hit Writing instead.
Dominae |
This is why a clear Strategy must be in place, soon! 
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Ok, we don't really need Iron Working at all in this game.
I recall the Numidian and the Swordman costs the same to build,
and that the Numidian is better. I once used loads of Numidians to kick ass on a more powerful MP-opponant. (mwuhahahaaaa)
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What are you talking about? The Swordman has a better attack value than the Merc! And, the Swordsman won't cost us an early GA if we supplant the Mercs with Swordsman for our defense against Warriors or relatively small numbers of Archers/Horsemen. We keep a few Mercs on stand-by in case we get a stack of Swordsmen comming at us.
The Swordsmen can have a multiple uses, in that they can attack would be attackers as they arive instead of just waiting for the attacker to attack and they can be used to mount a counter-offensive if our nearest neighbor is feeling a little frisky! 
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ThePlagueRat
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Insert banana to play...
May 2002
time: 06:25
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I know the Swordman attack benefit and all that. It's nice, but overemphasized. Horsemen are one below, but moves by two, thus better to counterattack inside our borders. I have tried it many times. 
I must admit though... I put 5 Swordsmen in my stacks of 10 Numidians before taking 2 cities in a MP game some months ago. Numidians did most of the work, and the second city fell mostly by the work of these Numidians. (cause the swordsmen had reduced HPs on the first wave and it was a blitzkrieg) Oh yeah... the GA came too soon, but boosted prod so I got to build walls on the conquered cities, plus a stack of about 5 to 10 more Numidians and sent them in pillaging. It was a killer, I promise!
So if we are not gonna use Numidians in a campaign,
why choose Carthage and not another civ? 
IMHO we could have chosen another civ with a UU we could use to get a GA later, like Japan or something. Now as Carthage has been voted for, I think we gotta live with an early GA.
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joncnunn
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Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:25
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Pottery would make sense as the first tech to reserach given that there is only one expansionist civ in this game, but not as the second tech unless the goody hut gives us the tech we start reseraching first.
Granies seem too be less valuable initally with this start than normal: No fresh water access, at most one tile with >2 food initally.
The following reserach patterns seem to make the most sense initally:
1. Writing -> Literature, allowing both the Great Libary and smaller verisons.
2. Bronze Working -> Iron Working, allowing us to find the Iron that's probably closer than Horses.
This starting condition makes me glad that we are industrious. Look at all the hills that need mined and jungle that needs cleared we found just by moving the worker south one tile. In addition, evenually we may need to form a long irrigation path, if immedately east is sea water.
Last edited by joncnunn on 20-02-2003 at 22:44
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20-02-2003 02:19
So what do you think?
, and wait long on it , ..... it might be better to research iron working ourselfs , ....
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