16-02-2003 05:18									#1
	Turn 55, 1650 BC Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Code of Laws at 100%, ready in 9 turns.
- 58 gold cash (if Vox accepts our gift), -2 per turn

Urgent questions:
- Do we want to build a spearman in Hurricane or start a wonder? (Hurricane grows this turn, so if my calculations are right, a spearman would be ready next turn at exactly 20 shields if we switch.)

Military:
- The northern warrior in the incense desert moves 8 to get a better view.

Economy:
- Worker #2 (by Hurricane) starts irrigating.
- Worker #3 (by Cyclone) finishes mine, starts road.

Diplomacy:

Last edited by nbarclay on 16-02-2003 at 05:32

	16-02-2003 05:33									#2
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I deleted the Great Library question from the Diplomacy section since we seem to be talking exclusively in terms of other wonders, not the Great Library, now.

	16-02-2003 05:43									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

But there is still a lot to discuss, as opinions seem to be more shattered lately...
- are we going to continue our palace prebuild for the moment, or not?
- What's the deadline on deciding if we're going for a wonder, or something else: 2 turns (before a switch to a spear costs us shields)? Until we could switch to a library?
- Are we going to add workers, if we're going for a wonder or not?

DeepO

	16-02-2003 05:49									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

On a day of mass protest:

No Wonder!
No Wonder!
Little Red Cook Book!
Little Red Cook Book!

	16-02-2003 06:07									#5
	Got spare money?

DeepO, check what I added to Urgent Questions. If we're going to build a spearman, we'll probably have to switch from our palace prebuild to a spearman this turn.

	16-02-2003 06:15									#6
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Oops sorry. Not only did I miss that, but I also thought a spear would be ready one turn later... so we need to decide this now.

Anyone in for a poll? It's been a while

DeepO

	16-02-2003 06:23									#7
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I thought a spear would be ready one turn later myself until I loaded the save and re-ran my calculations. With EotS stuck at size 3, Hurricane can use three furs without interfering with EotS, which should give it six production after corruption.

With the number of shields working out to exactly 20, I'm inclined to think that even if we do go for a wonder, building a spear first wouldn't be such a terrible thing. But I'll post a poll after a while when more people have had more chance to think about the issue.

	16-02-2003 08:46									#8
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Should we direct the chop near Cyclone to either Cyclone or Bolderberg by using a wonder prebuild? Do we know for certain it will go to Cyclone now? Maybe an extra 10 shields to our barracks city keep our generals happy

DeepO

	16-02-2003 09:41									#9
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In my experience, when a forest is immediately adjacent to one city but not another, it always goes to the one it's adjacent to. And I view getting our second settler pump online quickly as a higher priority than the barracks, with how much EotS has been delayed and no way of knowing whether disease might strike yet again.

	17-02-2003 18:00									#10
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I can go ahead and play the turn now if you want me to. At the moment, the vote is narrowly in favor of having Hurricane build a spearman instead of pushing on to a wonder immediately. If someone has changed their mind since voting or didn't vote and wants to, please let us know.

	17-02-2003 18:14									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Play it, if you have time. I get home in 4 hours only.

	17-02-2003 18:18									#12
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Nathan, don't forget to go to bed from time to time ok

	17-02-2003 18:28									#13
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Looks like GoW made an in-game offer of Horseback Riding (not a gift) to see what we'd offer in return. Shall I clear the table and move on?

	17-02-2003 18:32									#14
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Why are they so desparete to tade it (too many sellers in the world?).... We need more time before agreeing to it.

	17-02-2003 18:36									#15
	Remove this text

If we did want to make a deal, this would be the fastest way to get it concluded. We could even hold up our turn to negotiate a price. But we have no real reason to be in a hurry; we're a long way from anything Horsemanship is a prerequisite for and we aren't ready to build any horsemen yet.

	17-02-2003 18:44									#16
	Remove this text

So... we got the offer twice now, by parties who know it from the other party. Is waiting on a deal for HBR our official answer? In that case, I'll tell Togas in my message to him tonight.

DeepO

	17-02-2003 18:45									#17
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I cleared the deal and started playing the turn. I was right that we can finish a spearman in Hurricane next turn if we want to.

	17-02-2003 18:48									#18
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Team Scores:

96 (+2) Gathering Storm
104 (+1) Demogyptica
83 (+2) Glory of War
103 (+3) Role Play
77 (+1) Vox Controli
74 (+1) Lux Invicta
117 (+2) Legoland

	17-02-2003 18:53									#19
	Got spare money?

Nothing especially interesting on the coast. We're finally back in a tie for first in GNP and productivity. We're second in mfg. goods. This is more like where we're supposed to be; maybe in another turn or two we'll be tied for or in first across the board.

(Edit: Corrected a miscalculation.)

	17-02-2003 18:54									#20
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We don't need HBR, unless we want to sneak attack Vox through the jungle, so it isn't worth to bother now about it. When we need it later, to advance in the next age, we most likely can get it dirt cheap.

	17-02-2003 19:04									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Okay, I'm ready to end the turn unless someone has something to say in the next couple minutes to convince me not to build the spearman.

	17-02-2003 19:25									#22
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Everyone check out the "What about Hurricane?" thread. DeepO came up with a proposal that may be enough to change my vote (which would swing the vote the other direction). I'm about to post my thoughts on it.

	17-02-2003 19:42									#23
	Put an end to popups!

How do you find out how your military compares with individual civs in MP? I've never managed to figure that out.

	17-02-2003 19:47									#24
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What do you mean, the F3 screen (mil advisor)? It works just like in SP.

	17-02-2003 19:55									#25
	Got spare money?

I guess I never really got the hang of how F3 works in SP. I'm too used to focusing on what my advisor says when I open up the trade negotiations part of the game.

	17-02-2003 19:59									#26
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Nathan: set the civ right by clicking on the name in the Right hand pane, then click on the 'more...' link in the advisor screen to scroll until you find the comparison message. Also sometimes good info on units: sometimes you see units appearing there.

DeepO

	17-02-2003 20:08									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sir Ralph's tip was enough for me to figure it out. It hadn't occurred to me before that what the advisor says is relative to one specific civ (whichever one is selected) rather than to the world at large.

	17-02-2003 20:21									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Since there don't seem to be any objections (at least by people watching at the moment) and since reversing my vote makes it 4-3 in favor of skipping the spearman and going ahead with our wonder, I'm leaving things at a palace prebuild.

	17-02-2003 20:30									#29
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Turn and screenshots sent.

	17-02-2003 21:02									#30
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Why is the Spearman on the plains?