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Dominae
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The threat of Numidian Mercs is a lot more powerful than the actual unit. We can go a long way (5+ cities) without ever building our UU, relying instead on an extensive network of Warriors. This way we can focus on our economy. Plus, we lose nothing, since the Mercs will be useful well into the Medieval age. If we do get attacked early (which we should avoid, looking instead to create an ally), rushed Mercs will defend our lands. There is definitely a price to pay, but I'm betting that no civ will rush us.
So, I suggest no Barracks or units other than Warriors early on. Of course, this is highly top-secret information.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Mayor
No Barracks? I think they would fear a vetran more than a reg wouldnt you agree?
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Vet. Warriors or Vet. Mercs? Vet. Warriors are mostly useful if you're planning to upgrade them to Swordsmen, which we may want to do (I'm making no assumptions about our military plans). But our early Warriors should be left Reg., since they'll just be walking around and killing Barbs, getting upgraded in the process.
quote:
Barracks should be in the top 5 list of thing to built in the city. |
Yup. But those 4 items above Barracks take up a lot of production and time!
1. Warriors
2. Settlers
3. Granary
4. Workers
5. Barracks
Dominae
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CiverDan
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No Granary unless we have a lot of room. Otherwise we risk getting rushed while are 2nd and 3rd cities have few defenders and are capital is trying to pump out settlers to make the Granary worthwhile. Trust me on this one...Another thing, if we do plan on the warrior defense, just hope we don't start near Persians with Iron. In that case we wil need to forget this idea and build mercs to stop potential Immortal rush. As said above once we know that lay of the land we can make better decisions. This game will be fluid with many changes in strategy over a short time period regarding city placement and unit and improvement build early in the game. Among the factors that affect this are: terrain, neighbors and their location, discovering resource locations, mood of negotiations with others, etc.
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Dominae
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CiverDan, I agree that we need a lot more information to make decisions at this point. But:
1. Granaries are awesome (trust me on this one!). There are times when they are not useful, but these are few and far between. As an Industrious civ, we can get a Granary up and running in no time, meaning we'll beahead of the other teams expansion-wise in just a few "Settler-cycles".
2. The key in MP (in my limited experience) is to convince your neighbor that you're more useful alive to them alive than dead. This is not so hard, because it's true: with shared research, you get way ahead of teams who decide to pummel each other. Thus, our scouting Warriors are actually a stepping-stone to a diplomatic defense, not a strategic one.
Dominae
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Dominae
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This of course depends on the terrain, but I was thinking of something along the lines of:
1. Warriors 1-3, maybe just 2
2. Settler
3. Granary
4. Warrior
5. Settler or Worker
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until expansion is over.
OR, a slightly more daring approach, but which works well:
1. Warriors 1-3, maybe 4
2. Granary
3. Settler or Worker
4. Repeat step 3
Step 2 is assisted with one or two Forest chops. The gamble here is that we will not be attacked early, and the gain is that we'll be the fastest expanders by a long shot (unless someone else does the same thing).
Dominae
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I think that you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves here. While it's good to have a general plan laid out, there are far too many variables that will come along that eliminates the need for debate on what we'll build for turn #20 and so on. We should stick to debate about what strategies we will be using and shift build orders to accomodate those strategies. No one knows what lies ahead exactly, though our strategy can be laid out in advance with minor changes to be made along the way.
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Dominae
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Once we see our start location, we can do a lot of advance planning. As Trip said, minor tweaks are unavoidable, but generally we should know what's going on in our capital city for the subsequent 20-30 turns.
Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Once we see our start location, we can do a lot of advance planning. As Trip said, minor tweaks are unavoidable, but generally we should know what's going on in our capital city for the subsequent 20-30 turns.
Dominae |
I disagree. There are way too many variables to stick with one build order or a mutlitude of build orders, in fact, builds will be changed midway, many times, guaranteed! This will happen many times in the game despite all of the best planning.
The game is going to be on a Large Map, so can we count on no contact from other civs for 10 turns? Maybe, but it isn't a guarantee. There may be a civ only 7 tiles from our Capitol (I've had this happen on a Large map with 7 civs and 2 Continents with water set at 60%.) That was quite frustrating, but the Computer picks the locations. We could have no contact for 20 turns, should we plan for that?
All I'm saying is that a Strategy is prefered to a build que. You don't plan your Strategy around what you build, it's the other way around.
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quote:
Originally posted by joncnunn
I agree with Dominae, our Civ III Doemstic Ministry Queues in the Democracy Game have gotten five and six builds deep on occanision. (They are now much shorter simply because most of the structures are now complete.) |
In latter game stages this is quite acceptable since game parameters are clearly sorted. It is in the beginning (that of which we now discuss) that build ques or wish lists are unreasonable in my opinion.
Maybe we're saying the same thing but with different points; but I still insist that a solid Strategy will not have to be tweaked as much as our build que will be.
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Dominae
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Actually, bigfree1, I'm talking about the first 20 or so turns exclusively. Barring anything extraordinary (contact with an Expansionsist team, very early Barbs from a Hut), the first turns are uneventful, but quite critical. Planning out what you're going to build, and therefore where to send your Worker and what to research, can save on precious Shields and net a Settler one turn early (or more). I'm not advocation sticking with strict build queues. What I am saying is that we can definitely benefit from some analysis once we get our turn. Playing heuristically and "by the seat of your pants" is fine for casual SP games, but there is more at stake here. Sorry if I sounds really anal, but if we can find an optimal early-game sequence, we'd be silly not to exploit it.
Dominae
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I'm definately not talking about playing by the seat of our pants; most definately not! Did you read what I wrote? Where do I say such things? Proper planning, which is my opinion is a proper strategy, and fine tuning it as the game progresses and more info is given to us will allow us to find a way to dominate in the early game. The first turns will yeild invaluable information that we should use to refine our strategy (of which there isn't clearly one as of right now and I'm trying to formulate or get some of the people in here to see it my way). The Consuls should start a topped thread stating the strategy they plan to use for now or maybe a poll to access where the citizens of Apolyton stand on the issue of begining game strategy.
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joncnunn
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Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:26
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There's only one expanionist team in this game and no one picked Aztecs with their 2 MP Jag Warriors nor Zulu with their 2 MP Imp Warriors nor even Japan with free knoweldge of the Wheel.
Therefore it's very safe to say that unless the Arabs are near us we are unlikely to make contact in less than 8 turns unless someone uses their starting worker to explore; even 9 or 10 turns pretty much requres that we explore towards each other.
Last edited by joncnunn on 20-02-2003 at 22:49
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19-02-2003 07:36
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