19-02-2003 09:31									#1
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This thread is for you to put yourself into the place of various historical figures at critical times, and justify the decision you would make. You anser the question and justify your answer, then post your own scenario.

First scenario...you are Pope Pius XII in 1942. You are aware of the beginnings of the Holocaust. Do you issue a papal protest, violating your Concordat with Hitler and risking even greater persecution of Catholics and potentially personal safety?

	19-02-2003 09:41									#2
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I think he didn't do it.
The Patriarch though did it.

	19-02-2003 09:45									#3
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I would, appeasement shouldn't be an option.

ACK!

	19-02-2003 09:45									#4
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paiktis, missing the point - of course he didn't, the question is, would YOU have?

	19-02-2003 09:46									#5
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Sure.

As a popular greek song goes:"The salvation of the soul is a very important thing"

	19-02-2003 09:46									#6
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Nope.

	19-02-2003 09:47									#7
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STYOM, why not?

	19-02-2003 09:48									#8
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of couse i'd appease hitler, being the pope implies that i believe in the catholic ways, which implies that i am a closed minded fool.

	19-02-2003 09:49									#9
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Uber, come on now

	19-02-2003 09:50									#10
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BTW sorry DF.
Don't mean to threadjack, but this is 100% what we're talking about.
I just point it out.

http://www.amen-lefilm.com/

	19-02-2003 09:51									#11
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being Pope requires that you are at very least, Catholic.

I don't think I qualify anymore

	19-02-2003 09:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd STYOM, why not?

If I were Pope, I'd already be effectively condoning things in Church policy that were almost as bad as the Holocaust turned out to be.

Since in 1942, I (as Pope) would not have any idea how the Holocaust would turn out, it probably wouldn't seem as bad as all the other nefarious things the RCC has sanctioned over the years. So, I'd keep quiet.

I doubt I'd make a good Pope

	19-02-2003 09:51									#13
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Absolutely. Hopefully, it would've triggered revolts in Southern Germany and Italy and within the Wehrmacht.

	19-02-2003 09:51									#14
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*sigh*

Fine, someone else throw one out there.

	19-02-2003 09:52									#15
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I would. I would be old anyway, so I might as well die in glory.

	19-02-2003 09:52									#16
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Personally, I'd do it because it was the right thing to do.

	19-02-2003 09:53									#17
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How's this?

Harry Truman. 1945.

	19-02-2003 09:54									#18
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I would drop 1 bomb, not 2. 1 would be enough, IMO.

	19-02-2003 09:55									#19
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Immediately end all bombings of population centers, and begin peace negotiations. End Lend Lease to the Soviet Union and condemn Stalin equally with Hitler.

	19-02-2003 09:55									#20
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd *sigh* Fine, someone else throw one out there.

Mine was a serious answer, actually.

In 1942, the US government was taking Japanese Americans out of their homes, confiscating their property, and putting them into prison camps. The Pope didn't protest that, either.

The difference, of course, is what happened to the inhabitants of the camps once inside... but in 1942, who knew?

	19-02-2003 09:56									#21
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i wouldn't drop any on japan. I'd consider giving some sort of demonstration to a group of ambassadors or something, and threaten use on Tokyo...but I'd never do it...

	19-02-2003 09:56									#22
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Sorry, I missed your answer.

	19-02-2003 09:58									#23
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Demonstrate one of the the atomic bombs to Japanese observers.

	19-02-2003 09:59									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Absolutely. Hopefully, it would've triggered revolts in Southern Germany and Italy and within the Wehrmacht.

This isn't the Middle Ages. Papal influence was not at point where it would have caused a revolt in Germany and Italy. If the Pope had such power he would never have lost the Papal States, or would have at least been able to foster more resistance to the Italian nationalists.

	19-02-2003 10:00									#25
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So Shi, are you a protestant now?

	19-02-2003 10:01									#26
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The Church did help many Jews to escape and live. Hitler did say from time to time shut up or else.

	19-02-2003 10:02									#27
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True, but also remember there were 35 million German Catholics. I would tend to think that the Pope would have at least some influence over them. Remember also that the Nazis stopped their policy of euthanasia because of the protests of the German clergy, IIRC.

	19-02-2003 10:02									#28
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I don't mean anything large-scale when I say revolt. But I'm sure it would've had a significant effect however in terms of fostering dissent.

	19-02-2003 10:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Hopefully, it would've triggered revolts in Southern Germany and Italy and within the Wehrmacht.

Why would it when his condemnation of the Nazis in encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge failed to have a similar effect.

	19-02-2003 10:04									#30
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The Austrians, for instance, mostly Catholic, yet some of the most fanatic Nazis. I don't find it inconcievable that resistance would be sparked in at least some form.