19-02-2003 23:51									#1
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http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Yes, it's long, but I found it quite interesting.

	20-02-2003 00:03									#2
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I only read the first few paragraphs and he's wrong... i know plenty of 'popular people' who are pretty damn smart. they might not have the time to be studying all the time but they still got brains


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	20-02-2003 00:05									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer I only read the first few paragraphs and he's wrong... i know plenty of 'popular people' who are pretty damn smart. they might not have the time to be studying all the time but they still got brains thanks

If you had read the rest of the article, you would see that he addresses that.

Guess we know which category you're in!

	20-02-2003 00:06									#4
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i should also note that some of the stupidest people i know were horribly nerds... one boy sits around making the sounds of rifles shooting and pretending he's shooting a gun at the cieling. he's a complete moron... a teacher asks him a basic question in class and he sits there with no response. he's a nerd and don't know ****.

and there's also those people who is too stupid to take showers...


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	20-02-2003 00:13									#5
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His choice of words are self-fulfilling though . . . The fact that he equates smart with nerd when everyone knows that nerds are unpopular (is it not part of the defining characteristic or a nerd to be unpopular ?)

What he seemed to get right was the fact that "nerds" are usually the people that work harder at scholastics than they do at the basic social and conformist skills necessary to fit into teendom. I went to a very small school and the nerd of the class was not the person with the highest grades (necessarily) .. it was generally people that combined higher grades and some other non-popular attribute. The smartest kids often were among the most popular.

	20-02-2003 00:16									#6
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or too self isolationist to take showers. my friends roommate in college is that way. he watches nothing but british comedies on PBS and refuses to bath more than once a week. My friend even went to the RA to complain and the RA told him to take 3 showers a week. this guy also has a huge stack of asimov novels.

	20-02-2003 04:31									#7
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Albert I think he would be a geek not a nerd. There is a difference

	20-02-2003 04:41									#8
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mrt144, man you have to do something about that. People need to shower . Save your buddy. Say that if he's not going to shower more, I'm coming over with sauna games, and I'm not taking any prisoners

Seriously, I guess I wouldn't lie too much if I was to say I belonged to those more popular types, but I was also little nerd, and hanging out with nerds because the popular types didn't know anything about computers which I was fascinated by.. So it worked good, no one teased me because I was hanging out with nerds too, but it took more than a little to get accepted to their computer discussions and game etc software trading and so on.. But I believe our schools are not that bad places, some categorizing is going on, but nothing too serious. Small classes etc.. people need to get along.

But I'm telling you, it's a lot harder to get into those nerdie type of communities! They really measure you, and even more so if you play sports and hang out with those types.. I didn't get any pressure from sport guys, but those damn nerdies.. gave me hell..

	20-02-2003 04:44									#9
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I was a cross between a nerd, and a freak (stoner type specifically). I was a neak

	20-02-2003 04:48									#10
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He is right that an obsessive interest in anything other than clothes, puerile music, the rest of pop culture and "popularity" is viewed as weird. I guess I would have counted as halfway between a "nerd" and a "stoner" on his account (though neither quite fits). I used to deliberately cultivate unpopular obsessions just to see what people would do. It was quite fun to watch the almost pre-programmed responses.

I don't like meeting up with people from my high school - not because I don't get on with them - I do. But because the ones that weren't "nerds" seem to me to be already dead. They have no real interests and almost no care for anything other than their immediate surroundings. It's very sad.

	20-02-2003 04:56									#11
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what is a nerd exactly? And what is a 'popular' person?

	20-02-2003 05:08									#12
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A pretty good summary of things. (This coming from school's lower middle class )

	20-02-2003 05:38									#13
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Stefu-I read the whole thing and I agree WHOLEHEARTADLY with the author-he basically summed up my life and how I felt about my childhood heh(short of the part about suicide.....yes I was often very angry/depressed but I never contemplated suicide).

	20-02-2003 06:18									#14
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OK I'm actually reading the article now. I'm a quarter of the way through and I don't agree. I do not agree being popular takes that much work.

	20-02-2003 06:21									#15
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Sums up my view of secondary school quite well. Pity I can't get any royalties.

	20-02-2003 06:22									#16
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He is right that it is an American problem, by the way

Hehe, stupid Americans....

	20-02-2003 06:53									#17
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:whew:

finished reading all of that . I'm a slow reader.

OK I didn't agree with how much work it takes to become popular. I still believe being popular is all about looks and social and/or athletic skils.

But the last 3/4 of the article is much better indeed. I think he is write on on the causes of this social situation in middle/high school. I agree completely.

And he mentioned some fixes. He also mentioned specialization. Well there is the answer. Specialist schools. I think kids can realize what they are good at an early age. And if they are wrong they can always change schools. I think specialist schools should be set up. I don't agree with throwing everyone in one class/school. The problem as I see it is that we do live in an specialized society. Yet the school system is designed only for general education. Administrators are probably scared to change for fear of "locking" kids in a path in life. But I think this would work. You would see a lot less kids enter college with no major. I have heard of kids close to graduation with no major . That is an obvious problem if you ask me.

	20-02-2003 07:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html Yes, it's long, but I found it quite interesting.

Stop copying threads from the Straight Dope Message Board, would you, Stefanie?

	20-02-2003 07:15									#19
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what is straight dope?

This is a good thread.

	20-02-2003 07:16									#20
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Okay, I am going to say the same thing here.

One of the defining characteristics of "nerds" is they don't have social skills, or perhaps downright anti-social. That's why they are unpopular.

	20-02-2003 07:28									#21
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I'm inclined to believe you. But I still feel "nerd" schools would be beneficial. Sure some nerds are more popular than others. But it would still be better than going to a general school And nerd schools could be broken down into say math, science, engineering, and computers. Sure you use computers in all 3. But the computer ones would focuse exclusively on construction, operation, programming, repair etc.

But it's safe to say they wouldn't have a very good football team

	20-02-2003 07:32									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 He is right that it is an American problem, by the way Hehe, stupid Americans....

Are you retarded? Do you think bullying is only an American problem? Too bas it's not possible to reduce your age and throw you into the Japanese school system.

	20-02-2003 07:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Okay, I am going to say the same thing here. One of the defining characteristics of "nerds" is they don't have social skills, or perhaps downright anti-social. That's why they are unpopular.

I think the point the author is making is that they don't have the time or inclination to develop social skills, instead recognizing that it's all a silly game on some unconscious level. I don't think that's quite correct.

	20-02-2003 08:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what is straight dope? This is a good thread.

The Staight Dope was a column started by a certain Cecil Adams in a Chicago newspaper aeons ago. There have been a few compilations of his columns and now there is a website for it. This is the BBS section.

I am surprised that you haven't heard of The Straight Dope.

	20-02-2003 08:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I think the point the author is making is that they don't have the time or inclination to develop social skills, instead recognizing that it's all a silly game on some unconscious level. I don't think that's quite correct.

Of course it is not correct. Not having time is a bad excuse, and not having the inclination is just as bad. Basically it is an attitude problem.

	20-02-2003 08:43									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Basically it is an attitude problem.

It seems if it was an attitude problem, they'd be cooler

	20-02-2003 09:02									#27
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The nerds at my school weren't necessarily the smart kids, they were just the obnoxious kids with no social skills -- their lack of social skills was generally compounded by their overwhelming arrogance (their feeling of intellectual superiority). They were picked on, but by-and-large they brought it upon themselves, and I had little pity for them.

Many of the smart kids were preppies, or theater freaks, or band fags, or jocks, or quiet shy introverted kids, or anything in between -- the people who graduated in the top seven of my class consisted of two preppies, one preppy/introvert, one nerd, one introvert/jock, one introvert, and a theater freak. The nerd was picked on, the other six were not.

	20-02-2003 09:09									#28
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger The nerds at my school weren't necessarily the smart kids, they were just the obnoxious kids with no social skills -- their lack of social skills was generally compounded by their overwhelming arrogance (their feeling of intellectual superiority). They were picked on, but by-and-large they brought it upon themselves, and I had little pity for them.

I think we have a definition issue here... to me, they're all nerds - but I think the author was labelling as 'nerds' only the smart, socially awkward kids. The deliberately obnoxious ones (such as your correspondent) get another label, presumably.

	20-02-2003 09:13									#29
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He was using "nerd" for the smart kids who were picked on. At my school, the smart kids who were picked on were all obnoxious arrogant bastards. The smart kids who weren't picked on were introverts/preppies/jocks/band fags/theater freaks/whatever.

	20-02-2003 09:21									#30
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There's an interesting view in the SDMB thread. The author reckons that it is the girls who are forming the strata in schools. This seems to hold true with my own experience. I went to one of the best secondary school here which is an all-boys school. We were pretty much some of the brightest kids in the city, yet I didn't notice any problem with a group being singled out and picked on.