21-02-2003 01:24									#61
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa North/South Korea. West/East Germany. Taiwan-Hong Kong/China.

All Cold War examples. Don't you understand the USA (the richest nation in the world) propped one side up? Why do you think these nations have done so well while other capitalist countries have not?

	21-02-2003 01:32									#62
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Did West Germany succeed all alone? Did West Germany have to fear that their "enemies" would have weapons of mass destruction, with no way (or no ally) to retiallate? The USSR Had to blow tons of money producing nukes just so that America would have to think twice about using nukes. And you're thinking "they wouldnt use nukes!", well, they did, right on one of Russias Neighbors.

North/South Korea.
West/East Germany.
Taiwan-Hong Kong/China.

in all of your provided examples, major economic powers (US, UK, etc) aided the capitialist side more than the communist. in fact, in several instances, they actually but SANCTIONS and RESTRICTIONS on the communist regimes.

Capitialism only succeeds because it is the globally accepted economic system, all the capitialist nations get together and help eachother out. Why is the globally accepted economic system? because Capitialism is the easiest economic system to impliment. People are greedy. They want more than they have. The natural order of things created a system where their greed can be appeased economically. But is that the way is should be? Thats called is "ought from is" fallacy in formal arguments, saying "this is how it is, therefore thats how it should be."

The natural order of things also created "rules of ascention" in societies, look at animals, even the great apes. Killing the leader of a society is the way to rise to power in many societies. But is that the way it should be? No. So (modern urbanized) society adapted to that, and made laws against it.

Now you're thinking how extreme that case is, how much worse killing is compared to something like greed. but it's the same basic thing, rudimentary urges deep rooted in our evolution that influence the way we act. Society has worked to tame / direct most of them away, but the seemingly harmless ones have been overlooked.

Resources are finite. When you have more, someone else has less. When a group has all, some group has none.

This is the way it is. Is this the way it ought to be?

	21-02-2003 04:00									#63
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But why are the US, UK etc(?) major economic powers and the Soviet Union not?

Why were Soviet censuses kept secret - because they showed the damage in millions of missing population caused by Soviet government

Systems of governements last only if they work; the US and UK seem to have the most successful systems

	21-02-2003 04:50									#64
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Hmm.

Haiti and Cuba.

'Nuff said.

	21-02-2003 04:56									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin But why are the US, UK etc(?) major economic powers and the Soviet Union not?

Why was Russia not an economic power under the tsars? This line of argument goes nowhere. Communism can not be proven unworkable by the Cold War.

	21-02-2003 05:09									#66
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Poverty in the city is the result of people buying silly things?

"Today on the History Channel, we shall take look at industrialized centers of pre-World War One Germany, and find out *why* the poor people of Koln, seem to need their crystal and bling."

	21-02-2003 06:12									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin But why are the US, UK etc(?) major economic powers and the Soviet Union not? Why were Soviet censuses kept secret - because they showed the damage in millions of missing population caused by Soviet government Systems of governements last only if they work; the US and UK seem to have the most successful systems

the US profitted majorly from the second world war. the russians died by the droves and were driven to near bankruptcy.

	21-02-2003 08:02									#68
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Here are some of the ways to fix our schools.


1. Stop "Graduation Standards" and state-wide tests, they are biased towards practical skills (like office work) instead of pure academics (like math, history and science). These force teachers to teach the things required in the grad standards and to help kids pass the state tests instead of making them independent thinkers. Less independent thinking leads to apathy and increases the power of the capitalists.

2. Stop putting kids with ADHD (like me) in Special Education, ADHDers tend to be independant thinkers and most are of a higher intellegence than average. We are thought of as a threat to the status quo by the capitalists, so we are treated like we have a "disabillity" that must be corrected.

3. More emphasis on science and WORLD history. The average person's knoledge of world history and science is HORRIBLE!

4. Increase teacher pay.

5. Make science and history classes more interactive, students don't like these classes because they are too boring.

6. Make students responsible for thier actions.

7. Less homework, especially in math, it doesn't take a person 20 problems to learn a formula.

	21-02-2003 08:57									#69
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Again, there several very interesting examples to see at: North/South Korea. West/East Germany. Taiwan-Hong Kong/China.

One of the big reason why communism hasn't worked so far is because of outside interference. The US couldn't have existed without French assistance, while the Soviets were able to wand off imperialist interventions for some time. I think they did remarkably well.

	21-02-2003 08:58									#70
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK All Cold War examples. Don't you understand the USA (the richest nation in the world) propped one side up? Why do you think these nations have done so well while other capitalist countries have not?

To be honest, we didn't get any propping up by the US. RoK and Taiwan did, though. However, Singapore didn't, either.

	21-02-2003 10:33									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Odin 2. Stop putting kids with ADHD (like me) in Special Education, ADHDers tend to be independant thinkers and most are of a higher intellegence than average. We are thought of as a threat to the status quo by the capitalists, so we are treated like we have a "disabillity" that must be corrected.

Interestingly enough, most of the time in my experience it is the parents who ask for drugs to treat their children suspected of ADHD, even when a doctor does not advise it. Are parents "the capitalists" now? Since when did everything bad or dumb become a capitalist conspiracy?

	21-02-2003 10:34									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger To be honest, we didn't get any propping up by the US. RoK and Taiwan did, though. However, Singapore didn't, either.

Singapore brings up another point. Singapore has excellent geography for economic status. Geography has a lot to do with whether or not a nation becomes a great economic power. Great Britain's geography is what caused it to become a great economic power. The United States too, has a geographical advantage. There are other factors to the rise of the United States. The United States inherited a culture from Great Britain that helped it industrialize faster and to do things efficiently. It's isolation (geography) and initial trade tariffs also helped it. Geography is a much better determinant than economic system.

	21-02-2003 10:36									#73
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UR.

Europe already had a tradition of strong economy. That makes you guys different. It was easy for you guys to recover.

	21-02-2003 10:36									#74
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Geography is important. That's what made Hong Kong.

	21-02-2003 16:57									#75
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Interestingly enough, most of the time in my experience it is the parents who ask for drugs to treat their children suspected of ADHD, even when a doctor does not advise it. Are parents "the capitalists" now? Since when did everything bad or dumb become a capitalist conspiracy?

Most of the time it is the parents that eventually give in and use the medications. Every parent I have met decided on medication as a last resort. Some of them waste thousands of dollars on stupid herbal schemes or diets before going to medication. I have no statistics to report on this but from my personal experiences on my Canadian ADHD website it seems that parents find giving out medication to their child as wrong. They hold this belief until they find out the best way to help their child is with medication and therapy.

On the other hand teachers can not force medication neither can they administer it without parent's approval so saying it's a consipiracy of teachers/captalists or whoever is wrong. I suppose you could go with the traditional stance of all conspiracy theorists and just say everyone is stupid and being duped but you and those that believe in your ideology. This way you could say teachers force parents because parents being the unenlightned unwashed masses are to stupid to figure it out for themselves.

I was diagnosed with ADHD and dysgraphia 22 years ago and you really don't want to know what it was like odin before ADHD kids were treated special. I made it, but it would have helped if people in the school system understood me.