21-02-2003 23:56									#1
	Turn 59, 1550 BC Suffering from ads?

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Code of Laws at 100%, ready in 4 turns.
- 50 gold cash, -2 per turn
- All military was waken up and re-sentrified last turn
- Eye of the Storm's radius expands in three turns.

Urgent questions:

Military:

Economy:
- Worker at the game finished chopping and starts road.
- Worker by Hurricane finished road, moves 2.
- Move one of EotS's laborers from a FP to the newly irrigated plains. (Should give enough extra production to reduce the settler's completion time from 2 to 1.)
- Have Tempest work the improved flood plain EotS isn't working. (No need from a growth perspective, but it gives us an extra commerce from the road.)

Diplomacy:
- Note to Vox: We finally want contact to Lux

Last edited by nbarclay on 22-02-2003 at 14:28

	22-02-2003 07:23									#2
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Question: does Vox has contact to ND? if not, where did they get math from? Because contact with Lux would indeed be nice, but ND's contact seems good too.

DeepO

	22-02-2003 07:40									#3
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worker: if I count right, roading will mean that the settler can move to #4 one turn sooner, right? at the expense of getting extra food in Cyclone 2 turns later? If so, I would suggest to road, if it can be fitted in with the build plans.

Road then irrigate:
- city 1 turn faster: 3 extra food, 1 shield
- road finished 3 turns earlier: 3 commerce

Irrigate then road:
- irrigation 2 turns faster: 2 extra food
- also minor difference because Cyclone will bit a bit earlier to grow then #4 will, which is very hard to calculate.

So, road first gives little less then 1 extra food, 3 commerce, 1 shield in total. minor difference, but probably enough

DeepO

	22-02-2003 09:17									#4
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I'm seriously annoyed at what happened with EotS last turn. What we did, as best I can tell so far, was nothing less than throw away half a worker in exchange for one single, solitary shield for Hurricane.

I'll grant that I dropped the ball getting so caught up in the ihter-team game that I missed something important, and in not doing a better job communicating my long-term plans to the team (although I thought I'd made myself pretty clear on how important preserving EotS's growth rate is to me). But those oversights should have been recoverable, either by delaying playing our turn until I could give advice or by having someone else run an economic projection and figure out the cost of leaving our laborer where the governor put him. It shouldn't have been that hard to figure out that given our plans to build a settler and then a couple workers, slowing down EotS's growth would be a bad move.

I suppose maybe I should be flattered that Sir Ralph regarded me as so infallible that he could interpret my failure to give an instruction as meaning I want to stay with the governor's choice. But the reality is that such misplaced faith demands that I be more than the fallible human being I am. I do miss things from time to time, and I need for the rest of the team to keep an eye out so we don't suffer when that happens.

Nathan

	22-02-2003 10:04									#5
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Ok, so we screwed up a bit, and we wish it didn't happen that way. But it did, and quite frankly, it isn't that big a deal.

Thanks in no small part to your efforts, Nathan, we are doing quite well overall. I'm not saying we just ignore a mistake, but on the other hand, I think such things are inevitable (particularly as our civ grows). The way I see it, cut down on them as much as possible, yes, but don't get too worked up about it.

No offense to anyone intended.

-Arrian

	22-02-2003 10:53									#6
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More than anything else, I'm just trying to make enough of a fuss that maybe it will be less likely to happen again.

	22-02-2003 14:24									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO worker: if I count right, roading will mean that the settler can move to #4 one turn sooner, right? at the expense of getting extra food in Cyclone 2 turns later? If so, I would suggest to road, if it can be fitted in with the build plans. Road then irrigate: - city 1 turn faster: 3 extra food, 1 shield - road finished 3 turns earlier: 3 commerce Irrigate then road: - irrigation 2 turns faster: 2 extra food - also minor difference because Cyclone will bit a bit earlier to grow then #4 will, which is very hard to calculate. So, road first gives little less then 1 extra food, 3 commerce, 1 shield in total. minor difference, but probably enough DeepO

Actually, we don't want Cyclone to grow too fast. We leverage our food better if Cyclone grows the turn after the granary is finished, so we give Bolderberg a bit of a food boost part of the time until then. Interestingly, by my calculations, the road won't be on the game tile when the settler moves on it but will be there when he's ready to move off. Which, it turns out, is all that's necessary to get the city at the #4 site (name, anyone?) founded a turn earlier.

	22-02-2003 14:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I suppose maybe I should be flattered that Sir Ralph regarded me as so infallible that he could interpret my failure to give an instruction as meaning I want to stay with the governor's choice. But the reality is that such misplaced faith demands that I be more than the fallible human being I am. I do miss things from time to time, and I need for the rest of the team to keep an eye out so we don't suffer when that happens.

Well, I kept an eye an waited more than 2 hours for your response. And if I remember correct, during this time you were quite active in the ISDG , so I thought in the end, my interpretation may be right.

There were 2 viable options, settler in 2 and growth in 3 turns, or settler in 3 and growth in 2 turns. Both have pros and cons, and this way we will have our 3rd barracks one turn earlier. So you can count my decision a bit biased. (kidding, of course).

	22-02-2003 17:28									#9
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Hmmm... Nathan, I saw SR's question, but didn't had any time to calculate or comment on it, and I was also under the impression that because you didn't comment on it, the laborers were supposed to stay where they were. Maybe it wasn't perfect... but oh well, so be it.

One suggestion: keep some kind of long term planning thread around (no suggestions nor comments, only the plans as they are at a given moment), it should help in having a continuous plan. The turn threads are great, and very helpful, but it's to easy for the rest of us to lose the precise intentions out of sight.

As to the road: yeah, the only time when it matters is when the settler moves off the tile, not onto it (as it is the 3rd move that turn anyway.) How you're planning on using the tile itself is something else, but my calculation should be the general picture, whether it applies to Cyclone or Bolderberg doesn't matter. (maybe it does a little, for the commerce side of things, but I doubt it)

DeepO

	23-02-2003 00:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph There were 2 viable options, settler in 2 and growth in 3 turns, or settler in 3 and growth in 2 turns. Both have pros and cons, and this way we will have our 3rd barracks one turn earlier. So you can count my decision a bit biased. (kidding, of course).

It should have been settler in 2, growth in 2. All we had to do was move our fifth laborer to the newly irrigated plains last turn and then swap with Hurricane to use an irrigated fur this turn (or vice versa). Growing in two turns would then have given us a sixth laborer on the fur forest for the tiny fraction of a turn when production is calculated, giving us the shields for our settler.

I actually needed to get to work at a reasonable hour yesterday morning, and I really shouldn't check in here from work as much as I've tended to lately. If I was posting on the ISDG forum between the time the turn came in and the time I left, it was a last-minute sort of thing with me not having any time left to check back here and make additional posts before I left. I know you're not used to my acting like I have a life outside the game , but I do have one. And I certainly wouldn't have simply ignored the situation if I did notice it and had any time at all to respond.

Nathan

	23-02-2003 00:59									#11
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DeepO, I keep intending to put up some longer-term plans, but between all the other stuff going on around here, work, and liking to play at least a little SP every now and then, I never seem to find the time.

	23-02-2003 02:54									#12
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Opening 1550BC.

Still no contact to Lux. Didn't they promise that 3 turns ago? I think, another request is in order.

104 (+2) Gathering Storm
111 (+2) Demogyptica
92 (+2) Glory of War
114 (+2) Role Play
81 (+1) Vox Controli
73 (-1) Lux Invicta
125 (+2) Legoland

	23-02-2003 03:07									#13
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There's not a lot of time left, there are already Demogyptian swordsmen one tile away from Lux's capital (and last standing city), according to intelligence.

	23-02-2003 03:09									#14
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Btw, check this out: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=78087
Have we encountered (and noticed) the same phenomenon in our game?

Btw2, I won't be able to upload and post the shots because I'm too tired and I'm going to sleep in five mins. Could someone else do this please?

	23-02-2003 03:22									#15
	Got spare money?

I don't think we've ever pinned our plans on using a tile the moment our borders expanded.