22-02-2003 23:11									#1
	FARC kidnaps 3 Americans: Bush sends more troops Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Morning news here in California

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ng_americans_14

There is another recent thread on the Columbian Civil War. I'll get the link for that.

	22-02-2003 23:48									#2
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This is like a couple of weeks old or so, but nevermind....

Let's see how long before someone here says Colombia = Vietnam....

*waits for any trolls to come by*

	22-02-2003 23:50									#3
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Go FARC! Kill them CIA mutha****as.

	22-02-2003 23:50									#4
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I couldn't find that other thread.

Anyway, the rebels in Columbia said they would target Americans after the Bush Administration said that our military aid could be used in the war against the communist rebels. Now they have kidnapped three Americans. Bush is sending 150 more troops to the area which will exceed the amount allowed by Congress.

This is bullshit. We should never have even extended the war on drugs over there, knowing that the weapons would be used in the civil war. But that wasn't enough. It's now obvious that Bush wants to get US troops directly involved in the war.

Also, I think that he may compare the rebels in Columbia to the rebels in the PI. That will include communists as terrorists. Who is a terrorist to Bush? It may seem to include more and more groups as Bush sees fit. Bush could start up the cold war again.

	22-02-2003 23:52									#5
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The FARC is already considered an official terrorist group by the state department.

	22-02-2003 23:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The FARC is already considered an official terrorist group by the state department.

Nice of them to admit the obvious.

	22-02-2003 23:55									#7
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I wonder how many troops will have to be sent before I can call MtG on his comment that if we get involved in the Columbian civil war that he'd fly to Chicago and protest along side me (not that I'm in Chicago anymore).

	22-02-2003 23:59									#8
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I'd hardly call 150 troops a serious commitment. Looks like a search and resue mission to me, che.

	23-02-2003 00:05									#9
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I hope that everyone agrees that these are CIA operatives, right?

	23-02-2003 00:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'd hardly call 150 troops a serious commitment. Looks like a search and resue mission to me, che.

The total will be 411 when they get there.

What do you think Bush is going to do if 411 can't handle it?

	23-02-2003 00:09									#11
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Che:

The drug war isn't going to work, but the FARC are still bloody terrorists.

Until Colombia is even more ruined none of the parties involved are going to sit and talk *honestly* about making peace, they're all too stubborn and confident in their "strength"....nobody can win, but no one has been defeated yet, so the war continues. Stupid.

U.S. involvement will either not be enough for an occupation or it will be half-hearted and aborted, so the future can't change too much....

	23-02-2003 00:14									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Nice of them to admit the obvious.

And why should they be classified the same way as Al Qaeda?

	23-02-2003 00:17									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I hope that everyone agrees that these are CIA operatives, right?

Sure, there was a Coumbian army sargeant on the plane.

	23-02-2003 00:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK And why should they be classified the same way as Al Qaeda?

Why shouldn't they be classified as such?

	23-02-2003 00:25									#15
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Yeah, I get tired of reading about how FARC has crashed another airliner into a building.

	23-02-2003 00:27									#16
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What does that have to do with FARC's classification as a terrorist organizations, Clem?

	23-02-2003 00:28									#17
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DinoDoc,

I think we should be selective about who we classify as terrorists along with Al Qaeda. If you start including all kinds of groups you are going to lose support. After all FARC is not responsible for 9-11. Further more I would argue that we are being the terrorists in this case by supporting their enemies.

	23-02-2003 00:29									#18
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Does that mean that only 9-11 terrorists can be truly considered terrorists? Good one.

	23-02-2003 00:38									#19
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JCG,

Terrorists used to kidnap people to get someone to meet their demands, and do things along those lines. Al Qaeda is a new kind of terrorst organization. They just try to kill for no other objective but to kill. That's why they should be dealt with differently. There is no way we should get more involved in a civil war just because one side uses terror againt the other side. Plus Bush has an obvious bias here which can not be ignored.

	23-02-2003 00:49									#20
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DuncanK,

It's not like all they've done is kidnapping you know.

For example, they killed 3 U.S. civilians under Clinton, admitted it was a "mistake" (yeah sure it was...) and did not turn in any of the killers, but rather made them do community service (!).

I already gave my opinion on U.S. involvement, but that doesn't change the fact they are still terrorists.

And while I don't want to turn this into a ME thread, Al Qaeda isn't just "killing for the sake of killing", they have ludicrous demands and equally ludicrous justifications behind it, even if it's easier to think they have none.

And the FARC also have their so-called "justifications" for their actions obviously.

	23-02-2003 00:59									#21
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Just because (a) they sometimes fight dirty (as do their enemies), (b) you don't like them, and (c) neither does the US government, doesn't make them terrorists.

Compare their record to that of another insurgency, the Nicaraguan contras, then get back to me.

	23-02-2003 01:08									#22
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quote: (b) you don't like them, and (c) neither does the US government,

What I like and don't like is irrelevent to the definition of terrorism. I'd happily denounce the AUC as well. However, that set of murderers don't seem to appeal to as many people here.

quote: Compare their record to that of another insurgency, the Nicaraguan contras, then get back to me.

Look at him, he's worse! How dare you complain about my guy!

Please tell me that you can do better than that.

	23-02-2003 01:14									#23
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....Much different situation, but whatever....they are all terrorists in some manner or other, the paramilitaries also being on the list, and rightly so.

What's your point?

	23-02-2003 01:16									#24
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DinoDoc,

You aren't even making any points, except that if you look at things black and white you call these guys terrorists. No one is taking sides against that statement. Instead we are arguing that they should not be considered the otherside in the war on terror.

	23-02-2003 01:17									#25
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FCG,

Do you consider this kidnapping an act of terror if these guys are CIA?

	23-02-2003 01:22									#26
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If they are CIA, which is likely, it may not be an act of terror but it is an act against the U.S. government.

But executing the other two prisoners (1 Colombian, 1 U.S. citizen) is an act of terror though, or at least a war crime.

	23-02-2003 01:34									#27
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We aren't talking about war crimes. And the US is the aggressor here by supporting their enemies.

	23-02-2003 01:48									#28
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That's one way of looking at it, but the U.S. could also say that threats, aggressions, instability and especially drug trading are enough for them to get involved, I suppose.

I don't really pretend to understand the policy nor the realpolitik of the world's only superpower, and you should know there's nothing that can be done until they change, and changes can only be brought by popular demand or by government initiave. So far I see neither of them in action.

	23-02-2003 01:48									#29
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Actually, the shooting is not necessarily a war crime. The article doesn't say they were executed.

	23-02-2003 01:50									#30
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So firing at unarmed prisoners after a plane goes down is not an execution? One even had a shot in the back of the head (don't know if they mention it in this particular article).