23-02-2003 07:33									#31
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So... where do you live Abdul? And what civ game do you play?

	23-02-2003 07:34									#32
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Why do you want to live in Saudi Arabia? Family, religion, culture?

He doesn't want his women driving a car.

Some of the planners lived in USA themselves for quite a long time...

Few cities in the US work on New York time.

	23-02-2003 07:43									#33
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DRoseDARs, yes, I've posted on other forums before posting here. On Civilization 3 - Civilizations, Civization 3 - General and some others probably. Then I've went to chat and said to some guy (he was nicknamed something like "Evangelical" or "Evangelious") that I was a new member, he said he did not see me posting, then I claimed the forums where I posted and he said he doesn''t has Civ3 and invited me to OT forums. Later I also asked him werether ME politics are applicable or not before posting.

I live in Azerbaijan, I like Saudi Arabia because of it's culture and because true Islam is practicised there, unlike Azerbaijan, which is secular and doesn't even has a state religion.

	23-02-2003 07:44									#34
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DanS, most of major US cities lives in same zone as New York. Check this link I've found on google:

http://www.homepeace.com/purple/images/timezones.gif

	23-02-2003 07:45									#35
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That story checks out enough for me. It seems good enough (especially the bit about the chat).

Welcome to the fora Abdul

	23-02-2003 07:48									#36
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No, I mean that New York time is different than most other cities. In other US cities, coming into work at 10:00 would get you fired. In New York, it's expected.

	23-02-2003 07:48									#37
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Why the f*ck do you have a promotional banner in your location field? Did you take the whole cucumber when Mark told you to bend over?

	23-02-2003 07:54									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS No, I mean that New York time is different than most other cities. In other US cities, coming into work at 10:00 would get you fired. In New York, it's expected.

Sounds like my kinda town. Wonder what time dot.commers come in to work?

	23-02-2003 07:56									#39
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That story checks out enough for me.

A Shiite in Azerbaijan wanting to move to Saudi Arabia? Hmmm...

	23-02-2003 07:57									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Abdul-Aziz DRoseDARs, yes, I've posted on other forums before posting here. On Civilization 3 - Civilizations, Civization 3 - General and some others probably. Then I've went to chat and said to some guy (he was nicknamed something like "Evangelical" or "Evangelious") that I was a new member, he said he did not see me posting, then I claimed the forums where I posted and he said he doesn''t has Civ3 and invited me to OT forums. Later I also asked him werether ME politics are applicable or not before posting.

Well, then you have THOSE people who don't have Civ3 that manage to find this site...

As mentioned before, ME stuff has been done to death in the OT. An almost endless stream of new threads crops up every so often, particularly as war with Iraq lloms ever closer. The mods try to keep the OT from becoming solid ANYTHING by limiting what threads are left open and which are closed. We don't need a new thread everytime some "new developement" comes to light on the subject of Iraq, so those threads are closely monitored. A few weeks back (2 or 3) there was a crackdown on Iraq threads as there were too many. That happens, so be warry. Otherwise, the 'Poly forums are one of the better forums out there for ANY subject. The mods aren't draconian and are even actively participate in discussions, ranging from heady to absurd. They do what they must to keep this place a good experiance for all who are willing to take a little flack and a grain of salt...

quote: I live in Azerbaijan, I like Saudi Arabia because of it's culture and because true Islam is practicised there, unlike Azerbaijan, which is secular and doesn't even has a state religion.

So you're a devout Muslim? I can see why SA would be attractive. I'm not gonna judge you based on that, so don't worry. I guess now I've seen every "devout-whatever" under the sun...

	23-02-2003 08:02									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That story checks out enough for me. A Shiite in Azerbaijan wanting to move to Saudi Arabia? Hmmm...

Just cuz he lives in Azerbijan doesn't mean he's a Shiite. I thought Azeris were Sunni anyway.


Abdul-Aziz, Wahabbism seems to be far from the Islam practiced by the Umayyads and Abbasayids. How can it be "true" Islam if it's only a few hundred years old?

	23-02-2003 08:04									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara On the other hand, an Arab perspective has been missing.

Well, that's what I get for assuming an Arab king's name and a Saudi flag means the poster is an Arab.

I'm an idjit.

	23-02-2003 08:12									#43
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Well, will discuss more later since I am now going to bed, it is very late... Anyway, it was a nice discution :-) .

	23-02-2003 08:15									#44
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Me too, it's late!

Would someone else please throw him another scrap of credibility? Well done

	23-02-2003 09:09									#45
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Cool poems. For diversity, can you also post some about killing Jews and eating their livers?

	23-02-2003 09:53									#46
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Hard-core islamists don't like the Saudi government because they allow US troops on their territory.

	23-02-2003 10:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Cool poems. For diversity, can you also post some about killing Jews and eating their livers?

What was that about "nice" Israeli posters?

	23-02-2003 10:30									#48
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quote: I live in Azerbaijan, I like Saudi Arabia because of it's culture and because true Islam is practicised there, unlike Azerbaijan, which is secular and doesn't even has a state religion

Excuse me? A state where people lack freedom of speech, assocation, religion, where capital and corporal punishment is institutionalized, where women, the poor, and immigrants are marginalized and oppressed represents "true Islam?"

	23-02-2003 10:49									#49
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He never said it represented Islam...

He just said that the people of Saudi Arabia practised Islam, which is why he wants to live there (much like the Commies of America).

	23-02-2003 10:52									#50
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Azerbaijanis certainly practice Islam. He pointed out the distinction that Azerbaijan is secular, while Saudia Arabia is not.

	23-02-2003 10:56									#51
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Culture/Religion and Governmental Policy are two different things.

	23-02-2003 10:58									#52
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"Secular" is a qualifier of a state, not a culture or religion.

	23-02-2003 11:01									#53
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chegitz doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. of course sushi tastes better with wassabi

WHAAAAZZZZUUUUUUUUUUP

Hey Abdul-Aziz your poems are too long to read, can you provide a summary please

thanks

	23-02-2003 13:05									#54
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Saudi Arabia is an absolutely deplorable place where the abuse of women is not only protected by the state but promoted by the state, where a persons to this day can and have been publicly executed for holding a mass or any other nonmuslim religious service, where the government publicly gives money to terrorist organizations, and where the government controled media (its all government controled) constiently runs columns urging people to kill Jews and other such nonsense.

It is a totally barbaric country and I wish we'd have nothing to do with them.

	23-02-2003 18:23									#55
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Who said I am hardcore Islamist? I did never said so...
Saudi Arabia is a barbaric country??? Government gives money to terrorists? Media tells people to kill Jews? Well, I am not sure where are you from but it seems you are full of propaganda. You know, much had changed now - Saudi Arabia is a rich country, people has jobs, there is good infrastructure, few crimes, almost no drugs, etc.
Ted Striker, how could I make summary of poems?
Eli, well, you've just shown your bigotry. No of these poems told to kill Jews, no of them were anti-semitic. They talked about life in occupied country, only a few of them mentioned Palestine and only ONE of them mentioned Israel...

	23-02-2003 18:38									#56
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quote: Eli, well, you've just shown your bigotry. No of these poems told to kill Jews, no of them were anti-semitic. They talked about life in occupied country, only a few of them mentioned Palestine and only ONE of them mentioned Israel...

You nailed the problem.

Show me real, authentic poems, all of them. Not ones selected by you or some Arab site to show the world how coochi-moochi the Palestinians are.

	23-02-2003 18:51									#57
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Oh yeah, what "real poems"? You know, that site is operated in the principle of message boards, where anybody can post a poem without any selection, etc. You can look to that site (link given bellow first post) and read all the poems for yourself. Yes, there are several poems which are doubtful, those are written by some guy from California though (as he says above his poems) and probably he was never in Palestine. However, most of poems written by Arabic names are gentle. Go there and read yourself.
Eli, you live in a country which commits genocide on everyday basis. And yet you insult those victims who are being slaughtered like sheeps just because they tries to fight back? You throw them into "refugee" (read: concentration) camps, just like Hitler did to your nation. Is this some kind of revenge?

	23-02-2003 19:50									#58
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quote: Oh yeah, what "real poems"? You know, that site is operated in the principle of message boards, where anybody can post a poem without any selection, etc. You can look to that site (link given bellow first post) and read all the poems for yourself. Yes, there are several poems which are doubtful, those are written by some guy from California though (as he says above his poems) and probably he was never in Palestine. However, most of poems written by Arabic names are gentle. Go there and read yourself.

Have you even read what I said?

quote: Eli, you live in a country which commits genocide on everyday basis.

Really? And the invincible and invisible Palestinian divisions and brigades stop us from achieving that goal?

Had Israel only wanted, it could've wipe out 99% of the Palestinian population within hours. Now THAT would be genocide.

quote: And yet you insult those victims who are being slaughtered like sheeps just because they tries to fight back?

You contradict yourself. People who are supposedly slaughtered like sheep do not fight back. And if they fight back, they are not slaughtered like sheep.

quote: You throw them into "refugee" (read: concentration) camps,

No one threw them to refugee camps, these are the deliberate product of the Arab countries, in an attempt to increase the hatred to Israel.

In 1948 the several hundred millions strong Arab world accepted 500 thousand refugees. Today they and they're ancestorts are still stinking, illiterate, fanatic refugees.
In 1948 Israel with a population of 600,000, ruined by war, accepted 1 million refugees, half of them deported by Arab countries. Today they are fully integrated to the Israeli society.

If Israel could triple it's population and still take care of those people, why the Arab world couldnt? The answer is simple, it could but it didnt want to.

quote: just like Hitler did to your nation.

Ha!

I wish those 6 million Jews were sent to refugee camps, allowed to stockpile thousands of weapons and tons of explosives, allowed free movement and autonomy, inspections by intl. organization and negotiated with about an agreement to give them parts of Germany!

Read a bit about the holocaust. Then you'll realize the Pals are living in heaven compared to them.

	23-02-2003 20:16									#59
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Yes, I read what you said and you said there that I should post some "real poems". I already answered to that.

The only way Israel could wipe out this much Palestinians would be by dropping nukes on West Bank and Gaza Strip, and still more than 1% of Palestinians would remain since many of them lives in Israel itself. Even if such strike would be coordinated with army mass killings in Israel, 99% in hours still couldn't be achieved. Not to mention that nukes would also kill all settlers and damage health of other people in the region, including Israelis. Also, I doubt anyone would support Israel anymore and the government who would do this certainly wouldn't be reelected (well, probably it would, since, as I can see from your posts, certain Jews would like this option...)

OK, I've done a mistake about slaughtering, I meant those civilian people who are killed on roads, streets, in cars and who are not aligned with freedom fighters and are killed only because certain others fights back. This goes on on regular basis in Israel. In each day, 3-5 innocent civilians dies, including childs, etc.

OK, Arab countries doesn't likes the refugees no more than any other countries. Accepting huge numbers of refugees means huge problems with providing services, resources, food, etc. to those refugees, especially considering that countries like Lebanon aren't so rich. Israel, btw, doesn't agrees with Right of Return, also how can you call living in refugee camps "a full integration into society"?

Well, just like Jews weren't allowed to go from ghettos, Palestinians aren't allowed to get of Palestine (at least currently Palestine is closed). Although mass massacres in "refugee" camps in gas cells doesn't happens, but mass shootings does (remember Jenin). Also, always people dies there because of bad healthcare, etc. Israel also enacted checkpoints to ckeck Palestinians.

And also, Israel is settling Palestinian territories with agresive people who kills their livestock, etc. Also, Israel destroys homes. How is that not a war crime?

	23-02-2003 20:40									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Abdul-Aziz Yes, I read what you said and you said there that I should post some "real poems". I already answered to that.

Good, so you read two words. Now read the entire sentence.

quote: The only way Israel could wipe out this much Palestinians would be by dropping nukes on West Bank and Gaza Strip, and still more than 1% of Palestinians would remain since many of them lives in Israel itself. Even if such strike would be coordinated with army mass killings in Israel, 99% in hours still couldn't be achieved. Not to mention that nukes would also kill all settlers and damage health of other people in the region, including Israelis. Also, I doubt anyone would support Israel anymore and the government who would do this certainly wouldn't be reelected (well, probably it would, since, as I can see from your posts, certain Jews would like this option...)

In days, weeks, it's irrelevant. The point is that Israel could easily commit genocide but it doesnt.

quote: OK, I've done a mistake about slaughtering, I meant those civilian people who are killed on roads, streets, in cars and who are not aligned with freedom fighters and are killed only because certain others fights back. This goes on on regular basis in Israel. In each day, 3-5 innocent civilians dies, including childs, etc.

Your statistic is exaggerated by 500%.

Those dead innocents are not killed just because someone decides to kill them, but because someone fires from their house or car, forcing soldiers to either get hit or fire back.
If you dont want civilians to die, tell the terrorists not to use them as human shields. While they do, it's only unfortunate collateral damage.

quote: OK, Arab countries doesn't likes the refugees no more than any other countries.

Except that almost everyone do like them. It's a fact that Palestinian 1948 refugees have much better lives in Europe, the US and Israel than with their Arab brothers.

The ones who dont want the Palestinians are the Arabs themselves, in such situation can you really blame Israel for not accepting the Right of Return.

quote: Accepting huge numbers of refugees means huge problems with providing services, resources, food, etc. to those refugees, especially considering that countries like Lebanon aren't so rich.

No **** sherlock. It's difficult, it's VERY difficult. Now go and reread the part in my previous post about treating refugees.

As hard as it could be on the Arab world, it was thousands of times more difficult for Israel. Yet we did it, the Arabs havent.

quote: Israel, btw, doesn't agrees with Right of Return, also how can you call living in refugee camps "a full integration into society"?

Again, go reread my previous post.
The ones who were integrated to the society were Jewish refugees expelled from Arab countries and Europe.

quote: Well, just like Jews weren't allowed to go from ghettos, Palestinians aren't allowed to get of Palestine (at least currently Palestine is closed).

One half-assed similarity doesnt make the entire comparison valid.
Also, I can assure you that when the Israeli intelligence stops receiving 40 terrorist threats per day curfews will get lifted.

quote: Also, always people dies there because of bad healthcare, etc. Israel also enacted checkpoints to ckeck Palestinians.

Checkpoints that stopped tens of suicide bombers and car bombs. A fact you conviently ignore.

quote: Although mass massacres in "refugee" camps in gas cells doesn't happens, but mass shootings does (remember Jenin).

13 days of battle. 25 dead Israelis, 52 dead Palestinians(more than half combatants) in one of the most dense areas in the world. Do you honestly call it "mass shooting"(whatever that is)?

We could've leveled that pathetic one square kilometer of houses with one pack of bombs, yet we sent our troops there to get killed only to save enemy lives.

I want to see any other army doing that.

quote: And also, Israel is settling Palestinian territories with agresive people who kills their livestock, etc.

Dont forget that all of them also eat Palestinian children, work the devil and spread disease.

quote: Also, Israel destroys homes. How is that not a war crime?

Try to prove it is, I'll happily counter every point.