23-02-2003 23:01									#1
	FOREIGN AFFAIRS -- Organization Thread Remove this text

My Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs is Arnelos.

I now need potential Ambassadors to contact me via PM or to post in this thread. Here is what I'm looking for:

Ties you have to players on other teams.
VERY active people.
A pleasant, polite, and patient demeanor.
Excellent writing skills.
The ability to not become attached to the team you talk with.
No moral issues, conscious, feelings that other teams have "rights," or emotional/moral pulls towards or against any team.
An understanding that if you can't do the job for any reason, you will be reassigned or removed.
An understanding that you do not make decisions for Apolyton, you convey our decision to them.

I will keep a list of all applicants and assign each one as we make contact.

In the meantime the following needs to be done:

Creation of a general chat channel where we can meet and franternize with people from other teams (I will PM Betahound about this, but any outside help is appreciated)

An agreement between teams that during combat, the team that is attacking will report to the defending team what occured -- units lost, wounded, etc. I would like a detailed proposal posted here. We can then edit and prepare it to be sent to the UN for discussion.

Creation of a "Classified" thread that will detail what can and cannot be told to members of the other teams. I will start this thread shortly.

--Togas

	24-02-2003 02:10									#2
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As I pleaded for in the suggestion thread, (and destroyed any chance of getting more than 4 votes in the process), I would like to volunteer for the post of ambassador, preferrably to Fanatika, as I have membership and contacts there.

	25-02-2003 01:47									#3
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I have received a few PM applications for Ambassadorships, but I need many more. Please either post here or send me your application via PM.

Also, feel free to start exploring a few of the other teams' forums to get a feel for them and see if there's a team in particular you feel you understand and can communicate with.

--Togas

	25-02-2003 01:58									#4
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Once we have contact with Netatolia (CGN) I would like to be considered as our Ambassador to them.
I post a lot in their OT and so I have several contacts there.
I believe I would have enough free time to do the job justice and put in the required work.

	25-02-2003 06:26									#5
	Re: FOREIGN AFFAIRS -- Organization Thread Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Togas An agreement between teams that during combat, the team that is attacking will report to the defending team what occured -- units lost, wounded, etc. I would like a detailed proposal posted here. We can then edit and prepare it to be sent to the UN for discussion.

I've started a thread on this issue: UN Combat Notification Proposal

-- adaMada

	04-03-2003 16:23									#6
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*bump*

Any more volunteers out there?

	04-03-2003 16:32									#7
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ahhh this thread was already banished to the second page when I came here! (Thanks Frustrated Poet )

Although I have no contacts to other teams I would like to become an ambassador, possibly of the German team because I can speak some German but any team would be okay. I think I am active enough to do it and would put in the needed work.

	04-03-2003 17:46									#8
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quote: No moral issues, conscious, feelings that other teams have "rights," or emotional/moral pulls towards or against any team.

I don't really agree with this, I would, if you would be looking for spies not diplomats.
If the ambassador has none of the described above, he doesn't stand a chance of gaining their trust and thus won't be any good.

Besides, teams will see through a 'fake' ambassador sooner or/then later, after which they able to play him, instead of the other way around.

I'm not looking for a post, but wouldn't mind being an assistant to someone.

	04-03-2003 19:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by alva I'm not looking for a post, but wouldn't mind being an assistant to someone.

You're hired! The pay is 10 Euro a week and all the squid you can eat. Deal?

	05-03-2003 00:22									#10
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: No moral issues, conscious, feelings that other teams have "rights," or emotional/moral pulls towards or against any team. I don't really agree with this, I would, if you would be looking for spies not diplomats. If the ambassador has none of the described above, he doesn't stand a chance of gaining their trust and thus won't be any good. Besides, teams will see through a 'fake' ambassador sooner or/then later, after which they able to play him, instead of the other way around.

I'm sorry that you feel this way but I completely disagree with you, and I'm not going to have any ambassadors who "have a heart" or "feel bad for X team" or "feel we're being unfair" and so forth. Morality and fairness have nothing to do with Diplomacy, nor does emotional favoritism and personal codes of ethics.

Result are what matters. The apprance of morality, ethicis, fairness, friendship, etc are vital but such things are a ruse. Ultimately, when decisions must be made, they are to be made with cold logic, and once made, THEN "explained" by the passions, ethics, fairness, friendship, obligations, fears, etc.

"Teams will see through this "fake" ambassador" ... what on Earth are you talking about?! A "true" ambassador is one who has morals and is loyal to the team he reps?? What team is foolish enough to believe that the Ambassador to them is really on their side and the things he says are noble and fair, however, the same team paradoxically clever enough to sense that another ambassador is privately scheming against them because they can tell that he has no ethics?

Bottom line: They will see you as a mixture of how you portray yourself AND how their emotions/interests paint you. How you actually are is ultimately unknown unless you accidentally slip and show your hand from time to time ... but then again, how do they know you didn't intend to show them that?

Traits I want: Rational, Persuasive, Persistant, Creative, Polite, Emotionally Detached, Charismatic. In no particular order.

--Togas

	05-03-2003 01:46									#11
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Something tells me Togas keeps a copy of The Prince by his bed.

	05-03-2003 01:47									#12
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quote: Morality and fairness have nothing to do with Diplomacy

Don't you think we should play the game fairly? You never struck me as the cheating type, to be honest...

	05-03-2003 02:28									#13
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: Morality and fairness have nothing to do with Diplomacy Don't you think we should play the game fairly? You never struck me as the cheating type, to be honest...

Let's not confuse the two. I actually have a very strong belief in following the rules and not cheating in this game, however, my fundamental outlook on Diplomacy is very Machiavellian.

A lack of fairness in deal making and negotiating does not rise to the level of cheating.

--Togas

	05-03-2003 03:34									#15
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I cannot be an ambassador, because of these 'qualifications'.

	05-03-2003 03:39									#16
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'Liking' a team shouldn't necessarily disqualify an ambassador. They aren't going to be making policy on their own anyways, just conveying it to the team they are assigned to. I have about the same amount of ties with CFC as here, and they certainly are the team I'd most like to beat (and least like to lose to) because of that.

In real life I'd agree with you Togas. In a game where nothing real is lost except bragging rights, I don't think relationships of this nature are going to have any effect on the outcome though. Buddies can be just as ruthless in a game to each other because there isn't any real harm done (when both parties realize that's the nature of the game).

I'd expect that more emotion (mainly negative) gets involved when the parties don't know each other.

	05-03-2003 04:09									#17
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Don't take me too literally, as some of the most ruthless players in a game can be best friends outside of the game. However, some people are just incapable of being ruthless with their friends, even though they're only playing a game. It depends on how you're wired. If anyone is familiar with the board game "Diplomacy" you may know what I mean. There are some people who can play the game and there are some who can't. It can be very difficult emotionally.

An interesting thing happened on my PTW team. A few of my ambassadors slowly became attached to their teams, and in times of crisis they would argue with each other about which team's correspondence could be believed and which team we should side with in the conflict. Ultimately each of them wanted our nation to side with the nation they represented. This had a lot to do with the bonds and attachments they had formed with their respective teams.

Ultimately, I suppose, it didn't affect things that much as the decision was mine, but I would have preferred to see them much less effected.

Bottom line, it is I who needs to remain completely detached from any emotional ties to any of the other teams. I can probably live with a little "favoritism" here and there from my staff.

If I have an ambassador who's a buddy to team X, really wants to beat them in the ISDG, but really wants in this once instance for us to help them out and I tell that guy to "Support them emotionally, tell them you'll try to get our team's support, but let them know that it's not likely to happen, because it's not going to happen" ... that ambassador is going to be far more frustrated than would someone who wasn't friends with that team and wasn't unconsciously rooting for them. But maybe, in the end, I'll leave such things up to the conscious of the ambassadors, as beggers can't be choosers and I don't have 30 potential ambassadors with resumes in my inbox.

--Togas

	05-03-2003 05:16									#18
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I agree with Togas' positions.

I do, however, request that we play with honor.

	06-03-2003 21:47									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Don't take me too literally, as some of the most ruthless players in a game can be best friends outside of the game. However, some people are just incapable of being ruthless with their friends, even though they're only playing a game. It depends on how you're wired. If anyone is familiar with the board game "Diplomacy" you may know what I mean. There are some people who can play the game and there are some who can't. It can be very difficult emotionally. --Togas

Or even 'Junta' ? Now, that's a lot of conspiracy and fun!
Ok, I know what you mean. There is a lot of people who get really pissed when playing a game. If you get to twist them around your finger and trick and then kick their sore butt, they get really... eh, sour. Then I use to say: "Hey man... It's just a game. Wanna beer? Ok, here you are! "


And I agree with Panzer32 too... These qualifications does it for me. Sorry, I'm not an excellent writer in the English language.

[edit]

Hey, wait a minute! I saw a city called 'Ålborg'.
Is not one of these other teams from Denmark?
Dansk is basically my first language, so there might be hope

	06-03-2003 22:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Or even 'Junta' ? Now, that's a lot of conspiracy and fun!

Junta is a fantastic game. Brings back fond college memories. I had a buddy who would always be located at his Mistress's House and would chearfully hum porn music every time he revealed his location. He would also threaten to "coup" every turn and force the current El Presidente to either kill him off or pay him off so that he didn't have to play out yet another coup phase.

Good times, indeed.

--Togas

	07-03-2003 00:27									#21
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If more than one applies for an ambassadorship we could have an Ambassador election. This would at least bring a little democracy into this game.

	15-03-2003 02:32									#22
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I am still short on potential Ambassadors and am looking for active people to serve in this very important and involved role.

Please post here or send me a PM is you are interested.

--Togas

SIDENOTE: I may also be looking for a new Deputy as Arnelos seems to have gone AWOL on us. If you feel you should be an excellent Deputy FM, please contact me as well.

	15-03-2003 08:41									#23
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I know someone from CDG very well. I'm not sure I up for the job of ambassador (time question) but perhaps i'd make a good assisant or maybe even Deputy FM.

Trust me, I have A LOT of experience in real life diplomacy and I'm pretty goddarn good at it. I'll just put it this way: if I was in the real U.N., there would never be a war in Iraq.

And I also write very well and know all that diplomatic mumbo-jumbo that makes things look oh so more sweet.

	16-03-2003 22:48									#24
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This thread makes me wanna play Diplomacy, the boardgame.

	17-03-2003 00:37									#25
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After each civ makes contact we should have like a ISDG-UN, each civ sends delegates and we make resolutions that all civs must abide by.

That would be sweet for the role-playing aspects of the game.

	17-03-2003 11:04									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Important Update:

Arnelos has been sacked. I have appointed a new Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Master Zen shall now serve as my "right hand man". He shall act with full authority to take care of FA matters during emergencies when I am not available. He shall also assist with policy decisions, trade, relations, and with ambassador duties as needed.

Basicly, he's the guy to talk to if you need to make an urgent decision and I'm not around.

He just needs us to hook him up with mIRC. I'm going to see what I can do.

--Togas

	17-03-2003 11:47									#27
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Ok, I just registered at the Apolyton ISDG, I'm just waiting for Vondrack to add me to the user list.

Once I'm in I'll pretty much be in the chat room after 9pm CST and occasionally in the mornings up to 2pm.

	17-03-2003 15:28									#28
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Please consider my application as Ambassador to the French Civ.

I am quite active and I speak (adequate) French (though there is a difference between speaking it and writing stuff in French on Forums...).

BFM

	17-03-2003 19:34									#29
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Ok Togas, if it's not too late I apply for ambassadorship to Netatolia. (light green) I admit I don't know them personally, but they have a capital called Århus which is Danish, and I can write in Danish. And I love Danish beer and the Roskilde festival. Just PM me if I get the job, please...

	17-03-2003 19:39									#30
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FYI: The Netatolian team aren't from Denmark, by the way, although I think one of their team (buster) is Danish - the vast majority of the team are native English speakers.