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ashbery
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3/5 STARS is a good review score.
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Hmmm...the review was not as bad as I thought. I was actually a little surpised when, in the end, he could only recommend the game to die hard fans. It seems like the game is so deep that it might take more than just a few hours of playing it and then writing a review based on that.
I did note that a patch might focus on:
-Tweaking reserve build rules (which were already tweaked and fiddled with many times I think)
-Fixing Military Build AI. Seems like there might be an inordinate focus on building troop ships.
When it come to AI these days, it just can't compare to playing against humans. I love Medieval Total War but the AI even on the hardest settings is easy to roll over after playing against it so damn much!
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Alex-C
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Essex, England.
Nov 2002
time: 05:26
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I remember reading on another review (can't remember which one though) about the AI building odd DEA's where they shouldn't be built, and it was down to not understanding the interface properly. Perhaps this reviewer didn't take the time to fully explore how the interface worked and therefore didn't work out how to specify such things to the planetary AI?
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XentWraith
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I just read the Avault review and it's doesn't bring feelings of confidence for MOO3. The whole AI issue looks like it will be a problem. I see the problem in this very simple way, I like things my way when I play strategy games, and the AI often times has its own rules which are the ideas of whoever coded the AI. Now, granted, that person may have been brilliant, but the AI can still get in _my_ way. And let's face it, what do you think the chances of MOO3 AI being incredibly good are? I am not holding my breath... and it has nothing to do with reviews.
Avault is, by the way, a fairly old site (been going to it for 5 years). Contrary to what someone posted earlier, it is not based on video games. That part only surfaced a year or so ago. It has been reviewing games for a very long time, and is well known and respected in the gaming comunity. It has been my experience that they do not give unfair judgements on game, and I'd venture to say that most of their reviews have been quite on the mark. Three stars out of five does not make an excellent game, and I think MOO3 needs to be an excellent game to live up to its expectations.
We'll see.
Sincerely,
Xentronium
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Magus Flynn
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Yodasplat's comments on this thread deserve attention. Finally someone who comments on buying Mo03 (or not) based on their own interests rather than past prejudices or someone else's review.
I always read reviews before I buy a game. But never do I let a review stop me from deciding - I am after all the consumer, and I have a choice!
I loved Mo0 and Mo02 (still playing) and will buy Mo03 no matter what anyone else says. If the game isn't fun I won't play it long - but if there is at least 100 hours of gameplay (no doubt of that, is there?) it is worth the $70 Cdn I will spend in entertainment dollars. My family is still being fed and the bills are being paid. If I don't buy Mo03 I'd just spend that money on some other game that catches my fancy.
Mo02 isn't much of a splash in comparison with the look of some games I"ve played in the last year (Baldur's Gate series, Morrowind, Civ3, etc.) yet I keep coming back to it. I anticipate Mo03 will have at least the same long-lasting appeal if not much much more.
Peace be witih you and your puny homeworld.
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rhofman
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Richmond, BC
Feb 2003
time: 21:26
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Well Magus, we share more than a puny homeworld.
Bang on. $70 for at least a hundred hours sounds good to me. I've probably spent close to a thousand hours between MOO and MOO2 already.
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Ghostbear
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Well, the negative reviews have been enough to make me wait a few weeks and start hearing player reaction.
Of course, the IG boards had me so mad I was looking for an excuse.
Also, isn't "he didn't review the MP" the same as "the AI sucks so go play a human"?
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booje
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Los Angeles (Los Feliz)
Dec 2002
time: 05:26
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Nobody has still posted where Tom Chick actually won one or more games simply by hitting the next turn button and doing nothing.
I tried that with 'Hearts of Iron' last night out of curiosity. Strangely, a whole lot of nothing happened. Didn't win/ didn't lose. Just other nations moving their stuff all around me. Hmmm....
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sfsuphysics
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I really didn't find the Avault review to be that bad. I mean the graphics ARE subpar for today's standards, there is a ton of information in it, there is an incredibly steep learning curve (although dont recall now if the AV people mention it) but what this review doesn't state is that its the type of game that 4x space explorer fans (ie Moo2 fans) would like. Its not made for those who buy top of the line rigs and play FPS type games, trying to squeeze the last few frames per sec that they can out of their vid card, its not for those who want to rush with tanks over fantasy battle fields, its not for those who think that paying bills and simulating the stress accompanied with work is fun (no offense sims fans), its not for those who want to build a city and watch it run, or a zoo, or a rollercoaster. Its for those who want to start off as a little fish in a big pond and conquer the whole bloody galaxy! To relive some of those feelings when you first saw star wars with massive fleets engaging. To either eradicate everyone who doesn't look like you or unite all races under a unified banner. Its fans of this genre, I mean I hate FPS games with a passion that probably rivials the first moohate review, that doesn't mean I go around saying "ooh this game got a 9 out of 10? how did that happen!" I figure, hey I dont like those games anyways, the reviewer probably does.
So with that in mind I look to reviews like at Orion Sector which was done by those who enjoy this type of game, and can look past its faults, and tell me from another fan of this type of game that its good. Some of those actual BIG (read well known) review sites that have more than 1 person who reviews games because they realize people's tastes differ and unbiased opinions are EXTREMELY difficult to come by due to the human condition, where the admit their are some flaws, and its a bit difficult to get started but once you figure things out.... Look out, you'll want to do nothing but play this game. Now back to avault (wow what a rant eh?) they said it was an average game in the aspects of all those fields, and probably is to the average gamer an average game, but this isn't about the average gamer, this is about a gamer with some creativity, some imagination, some sense of doing something more than just shooting everything in sight *grin*, this is about Moofanatics.
Thank you for your time, I have one long day ahead of me before Moo3 will be mine, in one way or another!
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leiavoia
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Or-E-gun
Nov 2001
time: 22:26
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I would just like to pop in and say that, while i am not defending JonahFalcon, he is right about pointing out some errors in the review:
FACT: the AI does not colonize worlds unless you specifically tell it it can.
FACT: you can turn off the viceroy, and it will not override your suggestions unless it is in dire straights (blockaded and starving to death - in which case it would start to farm) UNLESS you have a specific development plan for that.
Also: There are *2* levels of AI: the UberAI (the overall empire leaders) and the planetary AI (viceroys). I think people are getting these two things mixed up. From what i am hearing, the UberAI is what could use the help. The planetary AI is pretty darn good when you talk to the people who know the game best. It would appear that many of the reviewers "don't get it" with the viceroy business.
for instance: the Avault reviewer said that he wanted all mining on one planet but could not stop it from farming. This is probably because the planet was blockaded, and when that happens you get only the food you grow locally, no imports, no exports. Now on a 100% mining colony that is blockaded (thus starving to death), the Viceroy will gladly step in and say "Screw mining, we're dying out here!" and start building some farming infrastructure. It isn't stupid.
Also, the reviewer may not have thuroughly understood development plans. Many plans overlap. There can be plans for, say, Frontier colonies and Mineral Rich colonies. Well, what if you have a colony that is both? Then they both get factored in, or possibly even more.
Technology: it is true that if you just leave it there, the viceroys will "make recommendations" as to what to research and very slowly over time you will notice that the sliders will change. This is a good thing IMHO, because they probably know more than i do. Now if i don't like, i can lock each funding sector in place so that it cannot be changed by anything. I can also turn off the planetary AI per-colony if i don't want him messing around in there.
So i don't think that the Avault review is bad or wrong. There are several legitimate complaints one could make about MOO3. However, like i've said earlier, there are some blatant errors in the review, so take it with a big grain of salt and just go buy the game yourself - then decide if it's good or not.
_________________
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sfsuphysics
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quote:
[SIZE=1]
for instance: the Avault reviewer said that he wanted all mining on one planet but could not stop it from farming. This is probably because the planet was blockaded |
The reviewer also mentioned something about a fleet of enemy ships going to a planet and then not doing anything. I suspect that the game mechanics have evolved to the point that "bombing a planets population into dust" is not exactly a well liked thing, and it most likely was a blockade, waiting for troop transports, or seeing that your planetary defenses were tougher than the fleet. I hope this is the case, since that was a major gripe about Moo2, was that it was too easy to genocide a planet and move a colony over, rather than build troops and take it over.
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leiavoia
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Or-E-gun
Nov 2001
time: 22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sfsuphysics
The reviewer also mentioned something about a fleet of enemy ships going to a planet and then not doing anything. I suspect that the game mechanics have evolved to the point that "bombing a planets population into dust" is not exactly a well liked thing, and it most likely was a blockade, waiting for troop transports, or seeing that your planetary defenses were tougher than the fleet. I hope this is the case, since that was a major gripe about Moo2, was that it was too easy to genocide a planet and move a colony over, rather than build troops and take it over. |
yes you are right, i forgot to point that out too.
The reason "they didn't do anything" could be one of two (stupid AI is not an option in this case):
1) Enemy found out once it got to the system that it's fleet was inadaquate to match the system defenses and decided not to attack - awaiting reinforcements
2) Enemy is blockading the planet on purpose. In fact, if there is anything that the Enemy AI's do well, it's blockade planets! It doesn't take much: just one ship and you've got all food, minerals, population, and goods severed off from the outside worlds, and the colony, unless it has sufficient resources on it's own (unlikely for a border world), will starve to death and eventually you will lose the colony entirely. I've had that happen before.
Now imagine what happens when the AI starts parking cruisers on all your border worlds, just quietly starving everyone to death, forcing you to divide your mega fleet to dispatch the blockaders.
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vee4473
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New Jersey
Feb 2000
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by leiavoia
for instance: the Avault reviewer said that he wanted all mining on one planet but could not stop it from farming. This is probably because the planet was blockaded, and when that happens you get only the food you grow locally, no imports, no exports. Now on a 100% mining colony that is blockaded (thus starving to death), the Viceroy will gladly step in and say "Screw mining, we're dying out here!" and start building some farming infrastructure. It isn't stupid.
_________________ |
Just wondering why the player wouldn't realize that he is being blockaded, and that's the reason for the viceroy overriding his orders....
Maybe he was expressing, in a somewhat unknowing way, that the game does many things that contradict the players' orders and doesn't let the player be obviously aware of the reasons why. So in that respect, the game fails.
If a planet is blockaded, is it so subtle that you don't realize it?
I would guess that that info should be in your face somehow.
just asking, because that seems bad, or was the reviewer just too stupid to see the signs of a blockade?
just asking, just asking.
i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just asking!
don't jump down my throat here!
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leiavoia
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Or-E-gun
Nov 2001
time: 22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by vee4473
Maybe he was expressing, in a somewhat unknowing way, that the game does many things that contradict the players' orders and doesn't let the player be obviously aware of the reasons why. So in that respect, the game fails.
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Bingo.
In MOO2, there was a huge bold red text at the top of the planet screen that said:
BLOCKADED
it's not quite so obvious anymore. that's one thing i'd pull for in a patch.
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Spectrex
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Arlington, VA, USA
Nov 2000
time: 05:26
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The avault review is not at all like the one on Qt3, the former was written by someone who seems to have really played the game, admits it's complex and seems to evaluate it fairly. The latter is just trash.
Anyhow it is somewhat unsettling that various reviews take opposite stances on identical points (e.g. the planetary AI). I suppose we'll just have to play it tomorrow and see for ourselves....
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Strollen
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After Tom's review and Avault. My pre-order is cancelled. I have been waiting for this game for 2 years so I am really disappointed.
But after wasting time an money on Space Empire IV, Imperium Galatica II, almost buying Reach for the Stars (I played the original on the apple II!), I am finished with throwing money away on poorly designed games.
I predict the fire storm of complaints on this forum will make the Civ3 forum (right after release) look like a love feast by comparison.
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sfsuphysics
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quote:
Originally posted by Strollen
After Tom's review and Avault. My pre-order is cancelled. I have been waiting for this game for 2 years so I am really disappointed. |
Wow, I sure hope you don't ever vote, if you're going to base all your assumptions off of 2 reviews...
quote:
[SIZE=1] I predict the fire storm of complaints on this forum will make the Civ3 forum (right after release) look like a love feast by comparison. |
Well not having seen the Civ3 forum complaints at the time I can't comment, but you name a game, I'll be willing to bet there were numerous complaints about it.
Funny you don't see many beta tester's complaining much, nor actual review sites to be perfectly honest, AVault had it as an average game, and Tom, well who the hell is that nimrod?
But hey its all your choice, if you really felt this strongly in the first place maybe you should of waited instead of pre-ordered anyways? Perhaps wait until others get the game, then let them speak on it.
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24-02-2003 23:34
That's a disturbing sign about anyone's ability to compare games...
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