25-02-2003 10:46									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Strollen After Tom's review and Avault. My pre-order is cancelled. I have been waiting for this game for 2 years so I am really disappointed. But after wasting time an money on Space Empire IV, Imperium Galatica II, almost buying Reach for the Stars (I played the original on the apple II!), I am finished with throwing money away on poorly designed games. I predict the fire storm of complaints on this forum will make the Civ3 forum (right after release) look like a love feast by comparison.

Hmm, I actually like Space Empires IV alot, its a great game, if you use some mods, I think its one of the best game designed.

	25-02-2003 11:24									#62
	Space Empire Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Space Empire IV was an ambitious design, with tons of options. I appreciate the tremendous number of patches the small team went through and the mod community. However, even after 2 or 3 months of patches the AI was breathtakingly stupid. Did you ever lose a game of SE IV to the AI?

My greatest fear of Moo3 is that with the complexity of the game, that the AI will the same. I'd love to play Moo3 MP but if it takes weeks to play a game solo, how long will it take to play MP.

Tom Chick has been playing and review computer strategy games for 20+ years. He is a contemprary of Alan Ermich (you may have heard of him.).. Much like I put more stock in a movie review by Roger Ebert, than the teenage reviewer in the weekly free paper, I put more faith in Tom's review than a fan site.

	25-02-2003 16:28									#63
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by leiavoia i admire your anticipation, but tell your family to carry a straight jacket around with them just in case you go insane. don't let me tell you "i told you so!" tomorrow, ok?

oh yes, today . I already have the Prima guide, so the game is not entirely strange to me. Perhaps 45 minutes for my first turn instead of an hour???

	25-02-2003 19:00									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by KoalaBear33 I think I know what the biggest problem with MOO is (apart from graphics and the combat): It's the MANUAL!!!!!! ... KoalaBear33

That is an interesting point ... did anyone consider the fact that maybe, just MAYBE the reviewers did NOT spend time reading the manual?

I mean after all, these guys have TONS of other reviews and games to take care of. They can't spend a full day just reading a manual, can they? If they did, for every game, it would take them forever to just write ONE review.

Actually it sounds like they just installed the game, fired it up, got frustrated cause it was too complicated, too much going on to figure out in a couple of sessions and decided to give up.

Don't take me wrong, I am not criticizing the reviewers. But it takes a "special" type of reviewer to analyze a game as (allegedly) complex as this. Obviously I will rely on a 30+ pages (p)review more for this game than any other, given it's complexity, rather than those 3-4 pages quick-jobs that normal reviewer spit out on a regular basis.

From Mr.Quick's preview (the 30+ pages preview i was referring to) I can understand that this game is not a "Plug and Play" type of game.

	25-02-2003 22:42									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Strollen After Tom's review and Avault. My pre-order is cancelled. I have been waiting for this game for 2 years so I am really disappointed. But after wasting time an money on Space Empire IV, Imperium Galatica II, almost buying Reach for the Stars (I played the original on the apple II!), I am finished with throwing money away on poorly designed games.

Well apparently you weren't *really* waiting on the game if you cancel a whole two days before it's in the stores.

What you were waiting on was another version of Moo2, or someone to lead you by the hand and tell you the world is all lollipops and roses.

Amazing that there are so many sheep in the world willing to take two bad reviews in place of the more than double number of good reviews and then decide from that. Yes, some folks don't have money to burn and that's why you *always* buy from a place that accepts the games back if they don't work or aren't what you want. Even store credit is good, but then again you have to be willing to take a chance on a game, any game, instead of being a sheep.

quote: I predict the fire storm of complaints on this forum will make the Civ3 forum (right after release) look like a love feast by comparison.

Oh yes, I can't wait, the forums will be roaring with the screams and moans of those who wanted Moo2.5 and *not* Moo3, just as the Civ forums were filled with those wanting Civ 2.5 and not Civ3.

Of course, we all know that Apoly is a regular "positive pool of energy" and no one ever deliberately flames others, starts threads strictly to troll, and/or is banned and keeps comming back to get into more trouble.

Hmm, 'Poly is looking more and more like the IGMoo forums every time I visit this area, and that's a shame.

	26-02-2003 01:54									#66
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Well apparently you weren't *really* waiting on the game if you cancel a whole two days before it's in the stores. What you were waiting on was another version of Moo2, or someone to lead you by the hand and tell you the world is all lollipops and roses Amazing that there are so many sheep in the world willing to take two bad reviews in place of the more than double number of good reviews and then decide from that. Yes, some folks don't have money to burn and that's why you *always* buy from a place that accepts the games back if they don't work or aren't what you want. Even store credit is good, but then again you have to be willing to take a chance on a game, any game, instead of being a sheep.

My Pre order was via Amazon. There are no stores here in Hawaii that offer returns on opened games, it sucks but then it is 80 degrees out...

We are now up to at least 3 bad reviews. Games Domain gave it 2 1/2 stars. I believe the 3 bad reviewers collectively have had several times more games reviews published, than all the good reviews. Most of the positive reviews have been from fan sites.

quote: Yet there remains something oddly hollow about Master of Orion 3. All of the small details seem like shiny wrapping on a box that is half-empty. Features have been piled upon features in an attempt to enhance gameplay, but this has only succeeded in bulking things up to the point where you risk an aneurysm if you try to figure everything out. That Quicksilver has acknowledged this by including management assistants that cannot be switched off even seems vaguely insulting.

Actually I was waiting for Moo 1.5 something which combined the best features of Moo 1 and Moo 2 and added something special.
I think this is the game Alan originally designed but he went overboard.

Truth be told since there has not been a good Space 4x game since Moo2 6 or 7 years ago, at this point I be willing to settle for anything with decent AI, that was fun. Even if the AI wasn't stellar, I'd have been happy with a game that could be played MP during the course of a few evenings (say 5-15 hours of play). Do you think MOO3 is going be that game?

It sucks that MOO3 isn't likely to be a great game or even a good game. For those of you who have the option to return the games and don't mind investing hours learning the game. Please do so and publish your impression. Believe me I want to post this.


Boy was I stupid to listen to all those clueless reviewers MOO3 is the best space game ever.

	26-02-2003 02:15									#67
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Strollen Truth be told since there has not been a good Space 4x game since Moo2 6 or 7 years ago, at this point I be willing to settle for anything with decent AI, that was fun. Even if the AI wasn't stellar, I'd have been happy with a game that could be played MP during the course of a few evenings (say 5-15 hours of play). Do you think MOO3 is going be that game?

If you liekd MoO2 then how can you not like anything else? It's like saying you'll eat dog poo and then not eat anything else because you think it will taste worse? ow can anything be worse than MoO2? I loved MoO1 however tho'.

quote: It sucks that MOO3 isn't likely to be a great game or even a good game. For those of you who have the option to return the games and don't mind investing hours learning the game. Please do so and publish your impression. Believe me I want to post this.

It sucks that you'll let some reviews that say the game takes a while to learn and/or is overly complex dissuade you. I can't blame you for backing out if you don't think the game will be what you want, but since you're not going to buy the game why does it matter what the impressions of others folks here say matter at all?

Are you waiting on someone to make up your mind for you?

quote: Boy was I stupid to listen to all those clueless reviewers MOO3 is the best space game ever.

Ah, so anyone who liked the game and gave it a good review is clueless yet all the people who bashed the game are the geniuses? Do you even *see* the poor logic in that statement, regardless of what the topic is?

I don't think you were stupid to listen to the positive reviews, but you may be to think that the bad reviewers are 100% correct as well. The idea of a review is to hear more about what other folks think of the game, good and bad, wade through the "fluff" and decide to plunk your money down.

Since you obviously place a higher value on the negative reviews you either 1) never really thought this game was worth it to begin with, 2) are persuaded very easily, are shallow and willingly let other people make decisions for you or 3) are a frightened sheep who is so brainwashed by the modern media that you only place value on bad news thinking it somehow outweighs anything positive (because bad news is good for ratings).

Your choice to make, but please, if you decide not to buy the game the say so and go. Don't stick around *****ing about how the game wasn't what you thought it would be, how good it could have been, etc, because since you never bought it you don't have a valid frame of reference at all.

	26-02-2003 02:23									#68
	Tired of ads?

quote: Ah, so anyone who liked the game and gave it a good review is clueless yet all the people who bashed the game are the geniuses? Do you even *see* the poor logic in that statement, regardless of what the topic is?

Me thinks you missed the point of his statement.

	26-02-2003 03:22									#69
	The really annoying thing... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The really annoying thing about this (and it isn't just in regards to MOO3) is that tons and tons of the "reputable" game magazines and websites spend a year prior to the release doing exclusive previews and basically talking about how this soon to be released game will be absolutely amazing!

Then the game comes out. And these exact same news sources turn around and rip the game to shreds. It is getting very frustrating and because of it, I've really lost my confidence in any gaming site. I now take previews with a grain of salt. It's truly unfortunate too, because I fall into the hype and can't wait for the game to be released, only to find that it is trash once it is released. (Disclaimer: I haven't played MOO3 yet, but unfortunately, I'm starting to feel very reluctant to)

Hell, look at Rise of Nations. Every single preview you can read on the net right now is proclaiming how this will be the greatest RTS ever and how revolutionary this game will be. I'm totally looking forward to it. However, I am willing to bet that the moment it is released, these same sites are going to bash it for some problems that "greatly affect gameplay" and find a bunch of frustrating bugs.

It is quite a disenchantining thing. I'll have to wait until more users on the forums throw in their two cents about MOO3 before I make a final judgement.

Until next time, game on :-P

	26-02-2003 07:46									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous If you liekd MoO2 then how can you not like anything else? It's like saying you'll eat dog poo and then not eat anything else because you think it will taste worse? ow can anything be worse than MoO2? I loved MoO1 however tho'.

Well you are in a distinct minority. The consensus opinion is that both games were excellent. Moo2 had a number of things I liked better than MOO1 as well as something I thought were worse.
I haven't seen a space game that I liked better since MOO2, nor has there been one that has received the critical and lasting popularity off it. How many people in this forums do you think would agree with you that playing Moo2 is like eating dog Poo.
Care to bet 49.99 that it would be more than half?

quote: It sucks that you'll let some reviews that say the game takes a while to learn and/or is overly complex dissuade you. ?

I love complex games, Europa Universal, Civ3, Uncommon Valor (which keeps track of every plane, pilot and ship captain in the SW Pacific), Capitalism, Combat Mission: Barbarossa. I also play Asheron's Call but it is to simple for me..

quote: Your choice to make, but please, if you decide not to buy the game the say so and go. Don't stick around *****ing about how the game wasn't what you thought it would be, how good it could have been, etc, because since you never bought it you don't have a valid frame of reference at all.

Trust me I won't ***** about the game until I play. I am hoping against hope that at website like Apolyton where people like strategy game, that more in depth opinions will be posted, and I'll decide to gamble on the game.

Right now the analogy is Roger Ebert and 2 respected movie reviewers said the movie sucks, but I also overhead the group of teen age girls at the Burger King, said that liked even though they didn't understand it, because DiCaprio sure is a hottie.

Let me ask you why are you so sure you will like it if you only liked MOO1 and MOO2. MOO3 has a number of MOO2 features ...

	26-02-2003 09:47									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Ozymandous Ah, so anyone who liked the game and gave it a good review is clueless yet all the people who bashed the game are the geniuses? Do you even *see* the poor logic in that statement, regardless of what the topic is?

No, bad reviews should ALWAYS be given more credence.

Always... and here's why.

A bad review keeps you from spending money on the game. However, this decision to "not spend" can be reversed at any point in the future if you are convinced to spend by later reviews.

If you only give credence to the good reviews, you will always buy the game even if the bad reviews were correct. And guess what? It is much more dificult to "unspend" your money.

In my opinion, I'll let the people who choose to ignore the bad reviews spend their money instead of me. Then, if they like it, I'll buy the game. If not, I've saved $50-$60 and also sent a message to developers that I will avoid buying sucky games.

	26-02-2003 12:14									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

A point that some reviewers mentions is that Ai policy decisions are affected by more than just one choice screen. And that this takes time to learn. For exmple, regarding building farming DEAs on mineral-rich worlds: Was the global policy set to self-sufficiency for each planet or to specialization? Was there suffient food being produced off-planet and the transport capacity to ship the food to that planet? Running out of food has been described as a major disaster.

By the way, is the AI smart enough to stress self-sufficiency for border systems that stand a danger of being blockaded, while allowing specialization for safe core worlds?

	26-02-2003 12:21									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Probably not but you do have control over such things on the empire level. You can assign different development plans to core worlds as compared to other worlds.

At least that's what the manual says.