24-02-2003 20:16									#1
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http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=moo3

3/5 stars

The reviewer did NOT like the AI, saying that it would tend to build farming DEAs even when mining was specified. That and the AI colonized worlds even when ordered not to.

The reviewer also did not care for the graphics and sound.

Last edited by Saturnalia on 24-02-2003 at 20:38

	24-02-2003 20:22									#2
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Any highlights? Can't see it from behind the firewall at work.

	24-02-2003 20:37									#3
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Overall: 3/5

Master of Orion 3 has proven to be one of the most difficult reviews I've ever had to write. The elements for a great game are present, but the focus and execution of those elements is not. Combined with an underwhelming and questionable AI, this puts MOO3 at a disadvantage right out of the gate. In the end, it's difficult to recommend this title to anyone but diehard MOO fans.



Looks like Tom's review was right...

	24-02-2003 20:39									#4
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AI:

quote: Unfortunately, I found that the AI only loosely follows the guidelines that you set. For instance, even though I set Mining as the highest DEA priority for Mineral Rich worlds, I often caught the AI building mainly Farming zones instead (despite the fact that Farming wasn't even in my Development Plan). In addition, I found that if I set the AI not to colonize worlds on its own, it would do so anyway - even if the planet was toxic to my race.

Difficulty:

quote: In terms of difficulty, Master of Orion 3 falls totally flat, especially compared to its predecessors. I was hard pressed to tell the difference between the Easy and Hard levels of difficulty, as both played nearly the same. In fact, it's not uncommon to see AI players actually bring a fleet to one of your systems, then do nothing. The enemy will simply sit in orbit of a system until you send in an opposing fleet and destroy them; they won't even press an advantage. The only real challenge posed by MOO3 is with the Antarans and the various Guardian battleships, each of which takes aggressive action.

Overall:

quote: Master of Orion 3 has proven to be one of the most difficult reviews I've ever had to write. The elements for a great game are present, but the focus and execution of those elements is not. Combined with an underwhelming and questionable AI, this puts MOO3 at a disadvantage right out of the gate. In the end, it's difficult to recommend this title to anyone but diehard MOO fans.

mfg
Fireblade

	24-02-2003 20:47									#5
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Man, this sucks.

Looks like I will be taking a pass on the game now, until they fix the AI.

	24-02-2003 21:01									#6
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Keep your eyes open for Galactic Civilizations. It's AI should rock.

	24-02-2003 21:25									#7
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MOO3's AI *should* have rocked as well.

	24-02-2003 21:27									#8
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Maybe I'm sorry I asked...

Thanks for the snippets, Hetz and Fireblade. Looks like I might be returning to a wait-and-see approach for this game instead of a rush-out-the-door-and-buy-it approach.

	24-02-2003 21:56									#9
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I too am very concerned about the recent reviews.

Most disappointing to me from the Avault review is the comments about dumbed down space combat. I hope that some of the folks here who have beta tested it can comment on that aspect of the game.

	24-02-2003 22:11									#10
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"In addition, I found that if I set the AI not to colonize worlds on its own, it would do so anyway - even if the planet was toxic to my race."

Huh? That never happened to me. EVER.

	24-02-2003 22:12									#11
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There seems to be violent disagreement amongst the reviewers about the quality of the AI. Tom Chick and the Avault reviewer find it subpar, Barry Brenesal thinks it's one of the best he's ever seen. They can't all be right.

	24-02-2003 22:16									#12
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I don't know - did they play beta versions? I have never EVER seen the AI "send colony ships to planets you didn't want" when the AI was turned off. EVER.

I've seen them BUILD colony ships on planets I wasn't directly controlling - but those ships never went anywhere - except to one red planet I'd already colonized but had a population under 1,000 (a planet with a population under 1,000 is not "active" yet.)

As for aggressiveness, the computer is aggressive to me when at war - often sending waves of spies to disrupt my empire before sacking it.

Avault is primarily a video game site, by the way.

The review reads like a Civ III negative review - "It isn't what I *wanted*!"

	24-02-2003 22:18									#13
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Don't worry boys, Jonah Falcon will be sure to swoop in, question the reviewer's credibility, flame the review, claim everything was a lie, and say the reviewer didn't really even play the game. And someone will propose the sending of massive numbers of angry emails lol.

Really guys, what those 2 reviews said was that it is a niche game only for those who know what they are getting into. Meaning that its meant for the crazy pot heads like us who have been hanging out at apolyton, IG forms or TOS for months on end waiting for the game to come out. Which is perfectly fine.

edit: LOL Jonah Falcon beat me to it.

	24-02-2003 22:20									#14
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Do shut up, Corentor. Stop trying to start a flame war.

	24-02-2003 22:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon Do shut up, Corentor. Stop trying to start a flame war.

So how much did Infogrames pay you again? Just out of curiosity

	24-02-2003 22:24									#16
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(ignoring Corentor's pitiful flame war attempts)

Some of these reviews are pretty inaccurate - he didn't even attempt multiplayer, whilst I took great pains to actually ask Quicksilver to take time out from their work to indulge me in MP so I could see what it is like.

Does Tom Chick or this guy even know MOO3 has multiplayer?

This is a good one:

quote: Unfortunately, I found that the AI only loosely follows the guidelines that you set. For instance, even though I set Mining as the highest DEA priority for Mineral Rich worlds, I often caught the AI building mainly Farming zones instead (despite the fact that Farming wasn't even in my Development Plan).

Hello? Were these Mineral Rich planets Harsh or Barren? You can't have all mining and industry DEAs on a world when your populace is STARVING. Had you said "The planet was Abundant or even Fertile", I'd believe you

In fact, I often have the problem the viceroy tries to mine colonies and I end up making sure Bioharvest DEAs are built on Fertile lowlands.

	24-02-2003 22:28									#17
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Wow, bad reviews and hired rabid fan bois, a sure sign I'm not buying this game until there's a patch or two.

	24-02-2003 22:30									#18
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Tell you what - DON'T buy it at all. If you're so sure you're not going to like it - stay away.

Incidentally, I'm not "fan bias". I trash games I don't like, I rave games I like. Period. End of story. (See my "Max Payne" 1 1/2 star review.)

	24-02-2003 22:30									#19
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So the guy didn't post about the multiplayer. Does that somehow invalidate the things he finds quesitonable.

(By the way, is it really true that you said in a review that Max Payne had laggy multiplayer? There have been wild rumors circulating.)

Also, in an earlier statement, you said that this is just like negative Civ III reviews, that the game wasn't what reviewers wanted. Isn't that the point of the reviews? To get a player's first hand perspective on what he liked and didn't like about the game?

Is it possible for you to grasp the small concept that different people enjoy different things and that there is not one universal truth of whether a game is good or not?

	24-02-2003 22:35									#20
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Damn, he too found the enemy AI incompetent. That's why all these "the game is so complex, you need more time to learn" arguments completely miss the point: If you WIN all the games, it doesn't matter how confusing the interface is or which parts of the game you missed. Who cares how your empire can be optimized if you're winning anyway?

And MP... I don't play MP (like the majority of all gamers, btw), so I couldn't care less about the reviewer guy skipping that part.

	24-02-2003 22:36									#21
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Corentor, how about you pretend to buy MOO3, then repeat the stuff from the negative reviews and bash it, ok? At least pretend to know what you're talking about.

Oh, and you're right. No one cares about multiplayer and how it plays, right? It's not an important part of a game when included. I mean, NO ONE is going to be playing MOO3 on GameSpy at ALL, right?

There is such a thing as an in-depth review.

Incidentally, since I've reviewed for UGO.com, my review load is much much lighter, so I was able to play MOO3 8 hours a day for two weeks (not by design - time flies when you play it.)

But, you only get out what you put in.

	24-02-2003 22:38									#22
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Completely side stepped the questions I see....

	24-02-2003 22:38									#23
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Huh, what... is the game out yet? No? Ok....

	24-02-2003 22:41									#24
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Jonah Falcon-- The only things about the Avoult review that potentially concern me were:

1: AI that isn't an effective opponent, either tactically or strategically

2: The difficulty ranges 'Easy to Hard' produce virtually no changes in game play

Are you concerned that the AI needs a major 'patch fix' to make this game enjoyable once we get past the learning curve?

Did you find the difficulty levels reasonable different in terms of game challenge?

I would appreciate any thoughts you would like to share.

	24-02-2003 22:41									#25
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No, not sidestepping, just stating an informed opinion is better than an uninformed one. I'm not posting to this thread anymore. It's a dead end one where someone is trying to start a flame war. I don't take bait from troublemakers, period.

Just don't buy the game, shut up, and don't post in the MOO3 boards, ever.

Last edited by JonahFalcon on 24-02-2003 at 22:48

	24-02-2003 22:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by JonahFalcon No, not sidestepping, just stating an informed opinion is better than an uninformed one. I'm not posting to this thread anymore. It's a dead end one where someone is trying to start a flame war.

I see, so what your saying is that your opinion is the only correct opinion about the game and anyone who does not find this game enjoyable is either too dumb to enjoy it or somehow got shipped with the beta version.....

Right

	24-02-2003 22:58									#27
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(Funny how no one is bringing up The Orion Sector 9.6/10 review, huh? And THEY played multiplayer, albeit on a LAN. And they, unlike Tom Chick, played MOO1. Tom seems to think MOO1 was exactly like MOO2. heh)

My last post here.

	24-02-2003 23:08									#28
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quote: Isn't that the point of the reviews?

Actually it's not.

A good review and by extension a good reviewer both explains what the game trys to deliver and how well it delivers.

It is not the reviewers job to say I don't want this type of game so it gets a low review. I don't usually play first person shooters. The best mark I would ever give one is 50% for UT. If I was a professional reviewer and gave it that mark when it came out I should have my head examined. For a first person shooter it was good.

Same goes for MOO3. If it is different than anything to this point it should be measured by how well it does that different thing. NOT by how desireable this type of game is to the specific reviewer.

I realize that this rarely happens and most reviews degenerate into either a rant or a love in.

	24-02-2003 23:18									#29
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Geez, while opinions are fun and interesting they are after all just opinions. I've found many times where a game has great reviews (Black & White) and I ended up not liking it.

Will anyone really who comes here regularly be disuaded from buying the game even if every review says it's a piece of donkey poop? (which every review has not)

I can harly wait. It's been almost two years I've waited for this game. Will it live up to expectations (I doubt it). Will it be fun? (I hope!)

	24-02-2003 23:25									#30
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darcy has a BIG point here.... maybe none of the other reviewers saw this because they have been busy trying to figure out the game mechanics and the interface.