10-03-2003 08:39									#61
	Tired of ads?

AMD architecture efficiency puts the P4 to shame. How can a 2.2ghz AMD xp3000 366 fsb beat a P4 3.06 /133x 4 (533) fsb? Why rate it in Ghz in the first place?

Yes I have a personal bias here. Who doesnt

	10-03-2003 08:42									#62
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by faded glory AMD architecture efficiency puts the P4 to shame. How can a 2.2ghz AMD xp3000 366 fsb beat a P4 3.06 /133x 4 (533) fsb? Why rate it in Ghz in the first place?

This is a completely moot point. They're different architectures, Intel goes for less instructions per clock and higher clock.

Why don't you explain to me why Motorola's G4 chip does more per clock (is more efficient) than AMD's chip?

Performance is generally measured by MHz * IPC.
P4s have more MHz, Athlons have more IPC. Big deal, the only result we care about is the product.

	10-03-2003 08:44									#63
	Remove this text

"1) The P4's Osweld is looking at is nearly identical in price to the AMD"

Good, then it shouldnt be an issue.

"2) The 3DS benchmark you showed still shows the P4 being faster, and 3DS has not been optimized for HyperThreading, just generic multithreading."

Note: The Barton 3000+ Beats the 3.06 ghz in most benchmarks. I just pulled a random one for your viewing pleasure. Of course once again, Im not referring to the 3.3ghz.

"That was never the question, by the way. The question was, what CPU should Osweld get... "

Im not in the market at the moment. I assume the AMD is cheaper... Could I be wrong? Probably not.

"And I don't see why you'd judge the "hype" for HyperThreading by showing a benchmark of a program which was made before HyperThreading even existed"

Up two paragraphs. The 3.06 HT is beat by the XP 3000 in most benchmarks.

	10-03-2003 08:47									#64
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey Asher, did I mention AMD's can are good overclockers?

Surely....intel fan boys cant share the goodness?

	10-03-2003 08:48									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Note: The Barton 3000+ Beats the 3.06 ghz in most benchmarks. I just pulled a random one for your viewing pleasure. Of course once again, Im not referring to the 3.3ghz.

Really? That's not what Tom's conclusion was.
In fact he said:

quote: Our benchmarks showed that the Athlon XP 3000+ at standard clock speed (13 x 166 MHz = 2166 MHz) can't hold a candle to the P4 3.06 GHz together with the latest applications.

That's from the same damn article you linked from, too...

quote: Im not in the market at the moment. I assume the AMD is cheaper... Could I be wrong? Probably not.

Go read the earlier posts in this thread.

quote: Up two paragraphs. The 3.06 HT is beat by the XP 3000 in most benchmarks.

No...why don't you do some more research before you continue spewing BS.

	10-03-2003 08:49									#66
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Hey Asher, did I mention AMD's can are good overclockers? Surely....intel fan boys cant share the goodness?

AMD's aren't exactly good overclockers.

In fact, for most of the year, AMD couldn't even overclock their own chips and ship them out. It took them months to get the 2800+s out on the market.

	10-03-2003 08:52									#67
	Put an end to popups!

Tom chooses his words carefully.


"Our benchmarks showed that the Athlon XP 3000+ at standard clock speed (13 x 166 MHz = 2166 MHz) can't hold a candle to the P4 3.06 GHz together with the latest applications"

Who buys an XP 3000 for a standard clock speed? My new rig is bumped up to 148 x 2 and thats still on the Stock HSF (+Artic silver) and below 60 c.

	10-03-2003 08:53									#68
	Got spare money?

Give me a break, faded, you can overclock a P4 better than an Athlon in general.

People online have had 4GHz+ P4s, even.

Here's HardOCP's 4.2GHz P4: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDE5

	10-03-2003 08:54									#69
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

"In fact, for most of the year, AMD couldn't even overclock their own chips and ship them out. It took them months to get the 2800+s out on the market. "

Mobo Manufacturers leave more flexibility in the BIOS for OCing an AMD.

In fact, all AMD's are factory unlocked. No pencil tricks or strings.

	10-03-2003 08:55									#70
	Got spare money?

quote: Mobo Manufacturers leave more flexibility in the BIOS for OCing an AMD.

Bullshit.

quote: In fact, all AMD's are factory unlocked. No pencil tricks or strings.

Bullshit.

I've built more AMD computers than you, faded. I've also got an Athlon XP 2100+ in my home gaming rig, you certainly do need some **** to unlock it.

See: http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/AMD/AthlonXPUnlock/

	10-03-2003 09:00									#71
	Got spare money?

Sorry asher, but in general, since the Pentium. Intel Cpu's are very unstable when overclocked.

Ya and what did they use as coolant? Liquid Nitrogen? Just a guess cause I didnt read the article. Im goin to bed anyway.

You win I guess. Do you derive pleasure from beating me? Your lucky I cant make an arguement for ****. Otherwise I would have made you my bitch. Im all over tech forums and in school absorbing this **** like a bathroom rug. One day....you will be wrong.


Ya you keep shelling out the extra 100 quid for the "Intel Inside" sticker. I dont. And im better off cause I dont.

	10-03-2003 09:01									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Sorry asher, but in general, since the Pentium. Intel Cpu's are very unstable when overclocked.

quote: Im all over tech forums and in school absorbing this **** like a bathroom rug.

What kind of school, DeVry?

	10-03-2003 09:03									#73
	Support Apolyton

errr UW. Good night

	10-03-2003 09:05									#74
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Ya you keep shelling out the extra 100 quid for the "Intel Inside" sticker. I dont. And im better off cause I dont.

Do you have any reasoning ability at all?
a 2.4GHz P4 and 2400+ Athlon are nearly identical in price.

I also mentioned already in this thread that I have an Athlon XP 2100+.

I'm just able to see when one CPU is better than another. And a P4 is better than an Athlon, and when they're equivalently priced, it's a no-brainer.

What are you studying at UW (University of Wisconsin?)?

	10-03-2003 10:39									#75
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm still confused why you think that superscalar translates to all execution units in use every cycle.

That's pretty much is the definition of "supercalar" architecture. Remember all the buzz about how it is more of a "RISC" than "RISC machines?"

If there are three ALUs in the CPU and only a bit more than one microcode is executed per clock cycle, there is something wrong somewhere.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Even if it were the case that all ALUs were in use, it's not the case that the FPU and SIMD units are in use, which HyperThreading helps fix.

Okay, if there is a "thread" that doesn't use floating point or SSE/2 instructions, it is theoretically possible to sequeeze more performance out by somehow feeding these units.

quote: Originally posted by Asher HT is one way to increase ILP, that's why it's there. And it does work in the realworld in most cases, will be improved in Prescott (Prescott doubles much of the logic on the chip in key areas, as well as L1/L2 cache), and adds instructions for thread syncs.

If the ALU's can't be saturated every cycle, it is a big problem. As I have pointed out previously, this is caused by

quote: 1. The control logic isn't smart enough 2. The execution speed outstrips data transfer speed

Since logical and integer operations make up the bulk of programs, you can increase IPC a lot more by tackling either [1] or [2].

	10-03-2003 10:47									#76
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One of the largest "problems" with HyperThreading in today's Pentium 4s is simply that it can't decode enough instructions to keep everything fed.

That's one of the things they've fixed in the Prescott, to improve HyperThreading performance.

Check out this page: http://www.chip-architect.com/news/...s_Prescott.html

Confirmed additions in Prescott: