26-02-2003 22:39									#1
	I'm still planning my future computer. (Calling all geeks) Support Apolyton

Well, I asked for suggestions a couple months ago, but it's taken alot longer to get the money needed then I expected. (and I still might not have enough )


Generally I know next to nothing about computer hardware, but I have started to learn a bit through neccesity... I will be attempting to build the computer myself, and I have not done anything on that scale before, so any advice is welcome.

All the components I know that I'm using for certain are:

Sound Blaster Audigy
Plextor CD-RW drive
Geforce2 MX (which I will upgrade later... although I was contemplating a radeon 9600 if I have enough money left over).

I'll need to get a new case and power supply, motherboard, and hard drive (although I would like to use the one I currently have as a secondary if posible). Also an ethernet card to hook my cable modem up to (atleast, I think that's what it requires) but I think most motherboards can come with built-in support for that?


I'm still debating whether I want a pentium or AMD. I've always used pentiums and they've served me well, and the price difference does not seem to be that different... although I recall reading that the numbers used for the AMDs are not measured the same way as pentiums, so maybe I am not comparing them correctly. Right now, I'm leaning towards a Pentium 4 2.53GHz - that seems to be the cut off before it starts geting really expensive. (although I have not investigated the prices very much yet)


As for the motherboards, well... I want to get an ASUS, and have been looking over some of their motherboards, but most of it goes completely over my head. Is hyper-threading something I should go out of my way for? It sounds to me like one of those things they like to hype but don't actually do much. (hyper, super, mega, ect.) What about all the other (sometimes) optional gimicks like firewire, RAID, serial ATA, ect... I have no idea what any of that is, but since I've never heard of it before I assume I don't need it.

What about RAM ? I have read that DDR400 is not much better, and sometimes even worse then, DDR333. Looking at some of the motherboards, they seem to require RDRAM, I haven't heard of that before - good or bad? Is Dual-channel support something I should go out of my way for? (After living with a measily 128 SDRAM for so long, memory is something I'm willing to splurge on this time around. )

I seems that the biggest thing in motherboards are the chipsets and processors/memory they support. What are the good ones that would last me for a few years, and maybe save me from buying another motherboard for quite some time?


As for the hardrive... I haven't even begun to look into that yet, but I assume it should be pretty straight forward - what are some good brands, and are there any special feature I should look for?


Oh, and I plan on upgrading to windows XP along with all of this.

	26-02-2003 22:46									#2
	Tired of ads?

a good bit of advice is have a computer with an internet connection avaliable to you when youre building your new system, so you can ask advice/check for new drivers etc

	26-02-2003 22:56									#3
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A good reference website for prices is Pricewatch.

quote: $189 Pentium 4 2.53GHz $158 Pentium 4 2.4GHz 533MHz

The 2.4GHz is a better deal. For a 1/20 increase you pay about a 1/5 in price differential. Bad deal.

quote: $135 Athlon XP 2400

This is even a better deal. What's more, you can get one of those nFoce2 mobos, such as the Asus A7N8X, which makes life simple.

You definitely want dual-channel support, and go with PC3200 DDR.

quote: $72 - PC3200 DDR 512MB $76 PC2400 DDR 512MB

RDRAM is Rambus RAM. Once a poster child for Intel, its star has since long faded.

	26-02-2003 23:03									#4
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BTW, it's a good idea to get a mobo that supports Serial ATA, and get a HDD with a Serial ATA interface. It's basically IDE, but with a much thinner cable.

	26-02-2003 23:09									#5
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Thanks, UR. That pretty much confirms what I was looking at for an AMD system. Now I'll wait for Asher to come around for the pentium suggestion.

(I ought to of paid more attention when comparing prices... the AMD is alot more appealing now.)

	26-02-2003 23:14									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

UR, does PC3200 work with dual ddr ram mobos?

	26-02-2003 23:14									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree with UR. Serial ATA is a good idea. Dual channel DDR is also a must. The pc3200 is overkill as the timing won't be right for the systems bus anyway (not to mention that the 400mhz modules aren't as stable yet).

Hyperthreading is a great thing, but doesn't mean anything on the motherboard if you don't have a hyperthreaded processor (ie p4 3.06 or Xeon). You may still want to get one that supports hyperthreading so you can upgrade later.

All in all, the best advice i can give is to wait a couple months. The 800 MHz systems bus boards are due out next quarter. This, with the dual channel pc3200 memory (which by then should be very stable), will make for an incredibly fast system, especially if you have a hyperthreaded processor.


tech note: hyperthreading, oversimplified, means that one processor acts like two. This, paired with a dual DDR system, and a 800 MHz system bus is going to be incredible....

	26-02-2003 23:19									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

and the great thing is, when all this new crap comes out, the old crap will cost less, and there wont be that bad a trade off for price vs performance.

	26-02-2003 23:23									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And then there'll be even more new crap around the corner to wait for.

I've waited too long as it is, and I'm going to do this as soon as I can.

	26-02-2003 23:27									#10
	Got spare money?

Oh! and as for which system to use...if you are going to build it now, go with Athlon (but note that the xp 2400+ is much slower clock rate than a 2.4 p4) mainly because they have better motherboards. You may want to look at the MSI and gigabyte motherboards too. they have been getting a bit better reviews than the asus boards. If you are going to wait on the 800MHz boards, you will have to go p4...

and you should...the intel boards that are coming out are incredible.

If you don't wait, make sure you get a board with ON BOARD serial ati.

	26-02-2003 23:33									#11
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kaak, that gigabyte board 8inxp has reported some posting problems like 1/10 times, but sadly i cant find a retailer for the msi 6565 board..

	26-02-2003 23:34									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

check pricewatch MRT. newegg and mwave carry just about everything...

edit:
Click here for the 6565. look for the GNB Max. it is $237 i believe....

Last edited by Kaak on 26-02-2003 at 23:44

	26-02-2003 23:37									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

and i hadn't heard that about that board. Tom's hardware gave it the highest rating overall for mobos...

	26-02-2003 23:39									#14
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here is a graph of processor performance:
http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/2..._charts-32.html
and if you are going for a p4, check these boards:
http://www17.tomshardware.com/mainb...3/e7205-05.html

you want the granitebay chipset (E7205)

	26-02-2003 23:41									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

oh, this was just user reviews on newegg. it seems that a few people had this problem but not all. might be a production run problem? but i think im gonna get in anyway.

	26-02-2003 23:45									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It's so boring these days to do computer building threads.

Mid-range Athlon motherboards tend to be slightly more expensive than mid-range P4 motherboards, mid-range P4s tend to be slightly more expensive than mid-range Athlons -- in the end they roughly cancel out.

I'd go for an Intel over a comparable AMD anyday, but that's just mostly because I appreciate the R&D that Intel is doing about technology in general, and AMD is much more of just a chip maker who adopts technology once IBM, Intel, etc. develop it before them and tweaks it.

I would venture that the Pentium 4 is more forward looking than an equivalent Athlon. SSE2 is still gaining in use, and once the Athlon 64s come out, AMD will support SSE2 as well. For the higher end Pentium 4s, HyperThread can give large performance boosts for optimized programs, but almost no programs are optimized for it today, but will be in the future...

	26-02-2003 23:45									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think it is the best board out right now, closely followed by the MSI 6565 you hit the nail on the head...

	26-02-2003 23:48									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Another upside with choosing an Intel platform is you can use Intel's chipset and avoid Via/SiS/ALi/Nvidia chipsets.

	26-02-2003 23:51									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

An upside to choosing Apple is that woman will moan with pleasure on your bed every night.
apple = chick magnet

	26-02-2003 23:54									#21
	Tired of ads?

do chicks really like ****gy haired nerds that wear birkenstocks?

	27-02-2003 00:04									#22
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They like shåggy haired nerds that wear birkenstocks and use apple computers as much as they like shåggy haired nerds that wear birkenstocks and use pcs.
Proportionately, there are many more of the latter.

	27-02-2003 09:43									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'd go for an Intel over a comparable AMD anyday, but that's just mostly because I appreciate the R&D that Intel is doing about technology in general, and AMD is much more of just a chip maker who adopts technology once IBM, Intel, etc. develop it before them and tweaks it.

The biggest thing that Intel has ever done is VLIW, I am not sure if that's such a good idea. IMO, that's the biggest blunder Andy Groove made. He could have went with a less ambitous RISC design, sort of like what Apple did when shifting to the PowerPC from MC680x0. Intel could have also repackaged and sold the Alpha chips. That could give Sun a nice run for its money.

	27-02-2003 09:44									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Intel went with VLIW because that's what HP wanted. HP contacted Intel with the ideas, thought the project would work only if someone like Intel made the chip for them.

And I would think the biggest thing Intel ever did was invent the microprocessor.

I'm not too sure VLIW/Itanium is a blunder at all. Look how fast that chip has become recently, IIRC it's still the fastest in floating point.

The compiler technology is getting better, of which VLIW is quite dependent on, and the chips are also getting way better. Madison and Deerfield are pretty cool...

	10-03-2003 01:32									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

OK, I think I am going to go for a whole new computer, and this is what I've got picked out now:

code:

ASUS A7N8X  (Dual LAN)		        $110
Athlon XP 2400			        $125
PC3200 DDR 512MB		 	$068
GeForce4 TI 4800			$165
CD R/W Drive			       *$030 (Basic CD ROM for old computer)
Sound Blaster Audigy			****
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9		$085
Monitor, Speakers, Case, ect...        ~$200 (?)
                                        ----
                                        $783
				    ~$1400-$1600 CDN

*I am still going to carry over my soundcard and CD R/W Drive. I have two sound cards so that's fine, but I'll need to buy a cheap-o CD ROM for my old computer.

I got those prices from pricewatch.com, and have tried to over-estimate. (hopefully I succeeded, because that price is right at the edge of what I want to spend)



The only things I am not sure are:

The video card - I know nothing about them, and am just going with the GeForce4 TI 4800 because it is the most recent one I've heard of, and relatively cheap. I also read something about some new ones coming out in a couple of weeks?

The Hardrive - which I also know nothing about, but just picked that one 'cause it sounded nice.

I don't know about the monitor and all that, either, but I think that should be easy enough to just pick out at the store.


I looked at geting a pentium, but it did seem alot more expensive, and I wasn't so sure about the motherboards available for them right now. (I think I see why you suggested I wait a few months, now)



Man, I wish my money would hurry up and get here so I can spend it and stop waffling over what I want to get.

	10-03-2003 01:57									#26
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Video card is very hard to choose.

Nvidia just launched some GeForce FX 5200 and 5600s, that are fully DX9 capable (GeForce 4 Tis/GeForce 3s are DX8, GeForce 4 MXs are DX7/DX8 hybrids), but they're not available yet. They're about in the pricerange of the Ti4800 card you listed, but probably quite a bit faster and forward-looking.

ATI also has their new Radeon 9xxx series, which have chips that are on the highend and lowend.

If possible, I'd go for a DirectX 9 chip. A Radeon 9xxx (excluding 9000, which is DX8...), or GeForce FX chip of some kind.

	10-03-2003 02:03									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And I'm not sure what you mean about Pentiums being "alot more expensive".

Using Outpost.com...
2.4GHz Retail P4: $189 (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3359822)
2400 Retail Athlon XP: $169 (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3493403)

Intel i845 motherboard (for the P4): $137.99 (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3436863)
Asus KT400 motherboard (for the Athlon): $159.99 (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3439743)

Looks pretty even to me. And I'd take an equivalent Intel over AMD anyday.

	10-03-2003 02:04									#28
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Yes go for radeon 9500 pro now or 9600 if they'll be out by the time you are going to buy your PC...

	10-03-2003 02:05									#29
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Intel sucks for most games (apart from Q3)...

	10-03-2003 02:07									#30
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Intel sucks for most games (apart from Q3)...

Last time I checked, Intel dominates almost all game benchmarks, while AMD held on in a few x87-intense workstation apps...