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monkspider is offline monkspider
King
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Aug 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 03:50
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US government seizes website Get a bigger avatar today!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2803927.stm
A website used by tens of thousands of people every day that offered information on bootlegged video games and movies has been shut down by the US Government.
The Justice Department took over the domain name, isonews.com, after its owner pleaded guilty to selling modification chips that would allow gamers to play bootleg video games on Microsoft's Xbox console.

The site's owner, David Rocci, fell foul of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it a crime to distribute tools that can be used to circumvent copyright controls on digital products.

Some civil liberties groups have expressed concern about the free speech implications of the government seizing websites and domain names.

Despite the action by the Justice Department, the original site can still be reached on its numerical IP address.

Console chipping

ISO News had more than 100,000 registered users and was estimated to get up 140,000 hits each day
The site did not contain illegal copies of video games, software and movies, but instead featured message boards where people could share tips about pirated material.

But the site was also used to market modification, or mod, chips. These have been a headache for game hardware makers for years,

Mod chips are grey-market add-ons that, once soldered to a console's main circuit board, defeat security systems and allow people to play games originally sent to different geographic markets, backup copies and bootleg discs.

The laws over mod chips are unclear. While they are illegal in some countries, they are not in others.

In July last year, an Australian judge ruled that mod chips sold for the original PlayStation did not infringe on Sony copyright protections.

New tactic

ISO News domain name was taken over as part of a plea deal with the US Justice Department. Rocci handed over the site and pleaded guilty to importing mod chips from Britain and selling them for between $45 and $60.

David Rocci developed a public website that specifically catered to the underground piracy community," said Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff.

"He attempted to profit by marketing circumvention devices to that community knowing they would be used to play pirated games.

"He thought that there were no risks associated with his actions. He was wrong and everyone engaged in the warez [pirated software] scene should take note," said Mr Chertoff.

Visitors to the ISO News site are now pointed to a statement about the Rocci case as well as information about illegal copyright activity.

But the government's decision to seize the site has caused concern among some civil liberties groups.

"It's a far-reaching and radical approach in light of previous Supreme Court decisions that emphasised the importance of the First Amendment on the internet," said David Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington.

"Unfortunately it appears to be a new law enforcement tactic," he said. "This could be equivalent to the death penalty in the context of free speech on the internet."

Rocci is due to be sentenced on 7 March and could receive a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a $500,000 fine.



--------------------
So what do you think guys? Is this a dangerous precedent?

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 03:57
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Various on news or publication medias have been sized in the past for various reasons, most often for back taxes.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 03:57 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

The guy got his start dumpster diving, probably.
Turn the page, he had a good run.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
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Dec 2002
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 04:07
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This is a dangerous precedent. Actions like these and the Patriot Act should not go unnoticed or unprotested (while we still have the right to protest, that is.)

"Love your Country, Fear your Government"

H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 06:45
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Put an end to popups!

the problem is the DMA, in its current form, people who use black permanent markers can be arrested because they can be used to disable copy protection on certain kinds of cds.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 06:54 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO1003
This is a dangerous precedent. Actions like these and the Patriot Act should not go unnoticed or unprotested (while we still have the right to protest, that is.)

"Love your Country, Fear your Government"

How is this a dangerous precedent?

The website was surrendered under a plea bargain, since the website was clearly in violation of copyright law by promoting piracy and SELLING tools to aid it.

I don't see what's a dangerous precedent...

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
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Dec 2002
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 07:07
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Asher:

quote:
The laws over mod chips are unclear. While they are illegal in some countries, they are not in others.


and

quote:
Some civil liberties groups have expressed concern about the free speech implications of the government seizing websites and domain names.


and

quote:
Unfortunately it appears to be a new law enforcement tactic," he said. "This could be equivalent to the death penalty in the context of free speech on the internet."


The internet is international in scope. The siezing on the web site and domain name are the issue here. It is quite possible that this was not a crime in many areas that he had customers.

I am not disputing that he broke a law or that he should have been arrested...that is not the issue here.

Free speech rights are much larger than one mans crime.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 07:11 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
The laws over mod chips are unclear. While they are illegal in some countries, they are not in others.

The laws CERTAINLY aren't unclear about modchips in the US, I fail to see the relevance...

quote:
Some civil liberties groups have expressed concern about the free speech implications of the government seizing websites and domain names.

This also is completely irrelevant -- the website wasn't seized in the sense of forced takeover, the website was GIVEN to the government was part of a plea bargain...

quote:
The internet is international in scope.

Hmm. Let's look at the facts here:
1. The website was based in the US.
2. The website was run by an American.
3. The website was in clear violation of US law which prohibits selling device like modchips.

I don't see why it would be relevant that someone in, say, Mexico could also purchase the mod chips from them. The criminal was American, the site was American, it was in violation of American law.

quote:
The siezing on the web site and domain name are the issue here. It is quite possible that this was not a crime in many areas that he had customers.

Are you reading a different article than I am?

The man SURRENDERED the site after he PLEAD GUILTY as part of his PLEA BARGAIN.

Dangerous precedent this is not...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:23
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Glonkie,

IIRC, a lot of people need mod chips not because they buy piratd games, but they have games bought from other countries that they can't play.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:25 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Glonkie,

IIRC, a lot of people need mod chips not because they buy piratd games, but they have games bought from other countries that they can't play.

Yeah, it's true some people use modchips to play imported games...

But at the same time let's be realistic. ISONews is a warez site, selling mod chips...

It doesn't really matter, of course, ISONews is up and running at a different address now...

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO1003
This is a dangerous precedent. Actions like these and the Patriot Act should not go unnoticed or unprotested (while we still have the right to protest, that is.)

"Love your Country, Fear your Government"


I agree with you.

This is the second time in 24 hours.

The world has gone mad.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:41 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Why do you agree with him?

How is the guy voluntarily giving up his website after pleading guilty a "dangerous precedent"?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
I agree with you.

As if I needed more evidence that he was wrong.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Why do you agree with him?

How is the guy voluntarily giving up his website after pleading guilty a "dangerous precedent"?


One can hardly call being coerced into giving up the website as part of a plea bargain (i.e. to avoid a harsher sentence) as being strictly voluntary. After all, if I plea bargain for a lighter jail sentence, it would be silly to say I was going to jail voluntarily.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


I agree with you.

This is the second time in 24 hours.

The world has gone mad.


Edit: But not totally mad. I overlooked the part with the plea bargain. Still, I think it´s not a good precedent.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
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  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:45 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
One can hardly call being coerced into giving up the website as part of a plea bargain (i.e. to avoid a harsher sentence) as being strictly voluntary.

The man pleaded guilty, and as terms for a reduced sentence gave up the site which sold the illegal merchandise...

What's so earth-shattering about this?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

The man pleaded guilty, and as terms for a reduced sentence gave up the site which sold the illegal merchandise...

What's so earth-shattering about this?


Just saying it's not "voluntary," that's all.

I'm sure there's similar precedent in Criminal Law. If I use my house to operate an illegal operation, I believe the government can seize it.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:46
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Tired of ads?

Why shouldn't the government be able to sieze what has been declared a criminal enterprise?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:46 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Just saying it's not "voluntary," that's all.

It is voluntary, he wasn't forced to do it like being implied here. Plea bargains are voluntary you know.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
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Aug 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

It is voluntary, he wasn't forced to do it like being implied here.


As I said, if I plea bargain for a lighter jail sentence, that doesn't mean I'm going to jail voluntarily.

Plea bargains are voluntary in a limited sense, yes, but I'm sure that the person pleading would MOST like not to have had criminal charges brought in the first place.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:26
  Old Post 28-02-2003 08:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

The man pleaded guilty, and as terms for a reduced sentence gave up the site which sold the illegal merchandise...

What's so earth-shattering about this?


It´s not eart-shattering.

But I agree with Plato insofar as I am *very* sceptical about *any* government inroads against freedom on the net.

Given the fact that the net is the only balanced info source. (Most of the info is useless, but given that everyone has equal rights, it´s truely balanced.)

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:03 Visit Asher's homepage!
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monkspider:
quote:
I never knew the modchip I had on my PSone to play Japanese games constituted piracy.

Have you ever been to ISONews?

The entire site is based around game piracy. When they distribute Xbox/PS2/PC game CD images for free, and then at the same time sell mod chips, you can be pretty damn sure those mod chips' primary use is piracy.

Not that it matters, of course, modding the game consoles in any way is illegal in the US.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
monkspider:

Have you ever been to ISONews?

The entire site is based around game piracy. When they distribute Xbox/PS2/PC game CD images for free, and then at the same time sell mod chips, you can be pretty damn sure those mod chips' primary use is piracy.


Have you? Where do you get the idea they were distrubuting game images? The site had no illegal material on it. In fact what they were busted for was selling modchips. AFAIK they simply announced when certain games were pirated and what groups were responsible.

quote:
not that it matters, of course, modding the game consoles in any way is illegal in the US.

Of course, the USA is about the only place, and even here it is in question. "Some hackers have seized on mod chips as a vehicle to run Linux on the Xbox. Advocates argue such legitimate, nonpiracy uses of mod chips disqualify them as "circumvention devices" under the DMCA." (source: www.news.com)
And of course, it goes without saying that being illegal does not make something immoral.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:13 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
Have you?

For a couple years now...

quote:
Where do you get the idea they were distrubuting game images? The site had no illegal material on it. In fact what they were busted for was selling modchips. AFAIK they simply announced when certain games were pirated and what groups were responsible.

That's true, technically it was just a news service of what games/ISOs are now available. But it's still a piracy hangout...

quote:
And of course, it goes without saying that being illegal does not make something immoral.

I disagree with thos advocates. When your business model involves selling hardware at a huge loss and making money back up in the game sales department, and your user agreement states you can't modify the hardware, modifying the hardware is both immoral and illegal.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
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  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:16
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ANOTHER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INTERNET BOONDOGGLE.

U.S. hauls in dealers of bongs, roach clips
Operation Pipe Dreams hits Net sellers


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By Bryan A. Keogh
Washington Bureau
Published February 25, 2003

WASHINGTON -- Signaling the start of a new front in the campaign against illegal drugs, federal authorities charged 55 people Monday with trafficking in drug paraphernalia in an investigation that focused on those who advertise and sell such items on the Internet.

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft, standing with a phalanx of other law-enforcement officials who participated in the nationwide investigation, said that by targeting major paraphernalia distributors the government was dealing the drug trade a sharp blow.

The investigation--a two-pronged effort known as Operation Pipe Dreams and Operation Headhunter--led to raids Monday in which officials confiscated thousands of tons of drug paraphernalia and tens of millions of dollars, and made numerous arrests, said Mary Beth Buchanan, the U.S. attorney in Pittsburgh whose office is coordinating the investigation with the Drug Enforcement Administration.

"It is an extremely profitable, illegal business," Buchanan said.

But some critics said an investigation targeting such items as bongs and roach clips showed little more than political grandstanding, misplaced priorities and a waste of federal resources, particularly as the United States is waging a more pressing war against terrorism.

"At a time of intense alert regarding the terrorist threat, this is a pretty pathetic waste of criminal justice resources," said Eric Sterling, president of the Criminal Justice Policy Foundation, a liberal think tank. "Is this a high priority when criminal justice resources are stretched so thinly?"

Justice Department officials defended the drug paraphernalia investigation.

"It's not a waste of resources. It's still against the law," said Drew Wade, a department spokesman. "The federal government has the right and obligation to enforce federal laws."

The investigation targeted distributors and shops selling such items as marijuana pipes, bongs and miniature scales, focusing on their sale over the Internet and by direct mail.

Officials said the growth of the Internet has opened a major avenue for the sale of drug paraphernalia, as it has for other illegal items, from child pornography to drugs obtained without prescription.

"With the advent of the Internet, the illegal drug paraphernalia industry has exploded," Ashcroft said.

Federal authorities said they were obtaining court orders to shut down 11 Internet sites that market drug paraphernalia, and that they would direct visitors to those sites to a Drug Enforcement Administration Web site that states why the site was taken offline.

Ashcroft said drug paraphernalia distributors often target children in their marketing schemes, using cartoon characters and other gimmicks to entice young buyers. The Internet's ability to reach inside homes makes such schemes "even more frightening," the attorney general said.

Officials emphasized that some of the items were designed to appeal to youth, such as marijuana pipes disguised as common objects such as highlighter markers, lipstick and flashlights. To support her contention that these pipes are marketed to teenagers, Buchanan said these are the types of items high school principals have been confiscating.

Although drug paraphernalia are widely available in tobacco stores, so-called head shops and record stores, they are illegal to sell or possess in the U.S. According to federal law, drug paraphernalia are defined as anything primarily intended to be used in the processing, distribution or consumption of a controlled substance.

The 55 people charged face penalties of up to 3 years in prison and fines of up to $250,000. Ashcroft also said federal authorities would confiscate any property or equipment used in the manufacturing of drug paraphernalia.

Federal indictments were brought against 27 people in Pittsburgh, nine in Des Moines and 19 others elsewhere in the U.S.

Besides the DEA and six U.S. attorneys, the investigation involved the U.S. Marshals Service, the Secret Service, the Customs Service and the Postal Inspection Service.

While most of the indictments were against companies that authorities said were involved in large-scale manufacturing and distribution of drug paraphernalia, some involved local head shops that sell pipes and bongs directly to consumers.

Describing marijuana as the drug that teenagers are most at risk to abuse, John Walters, director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said eliminating the drug paraphernalia market was as important as treatment and prevention in curbing drug use among young people.

Law-enforcement officials also criticized distributors of drug paraphernalia for their roles in the illegal drug trade and said they shared responsibility for the violence it accompanies.

"People selling drug paraphernalia are, in essence, no different than drug dealers," said John Brown, acting administrator of the DEA. "They are as much a part of drug trafficking as silencers are a part of criminal homicide."

But Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, a group opposed to the government's anti-drug effort, questioned the assertion that cracking down on the drug paraphernalia industry would make high school students less likely to smoke marijuana.

"It seems like an absurd diversion and waste of resources," Nadelmann said. "I think what it represents is an increasing politicization of the war on drugs."


Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:23 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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The DMCA itself is a totally unjustified, authoritarian law.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

I disagree with thos advocates. When your business model involves selling hardware at a huge loss and making money back up in the game sales department, and your user agreement states you can't modify the hardware, modifying the hardware is both immoral and illegal.

User agreements aren't divine mandates. A user mandate could state that you should stand on your head and do the hokey-pokey before turning the console on, but that doesn't mean you have to. Not to seem dismissive of user agreements in general, but if certain portions of them are clearly to the detriment of the consumer, they should be ignored.
Do you know how many legitimate uses there are for modchips?
-Using different operating systems (e.g Linux on XBOX)
-Playing games from different regions that you would not be able to otherwise (or playing them before they are released in NA).
-Making backup copies of games in case the originals become too damaged to play. (I know I wish I had done this with some Playstation games my sister destroyed).
-Playing "modded" versions of original games (I recall Final Fantasy VII being modded by some gamers a while back, but you needed a modchip to play their new version)

Saying that modding hardware is not only illegal but immoral is very hard to defend. It can only be so if you feel the uses stated above are immoral. While they could be used for bad stuff like piracy, it is difficult to prove that a majority or even a plurality of mod chips are used explicitly for the purposes of piracy. Would you like to come out in front of all of Apolyton and state that you find the above uses immoral?

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:26
  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:26
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That paraphenalia bust is about the biggest waste of government time and resources I 've ever seen.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:26
  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:30 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
User agreements aren't divine mandates.

If you don't want to agree to the agreement, don't buy the product.

You're not just buying a physical product when you buy a game console, you're buying the right to play games. It may seem like semantics, but it's the reason why modifying it to play things other than the games they allow is illegal.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. You shouldn't buy it then mod it because you think it's "immoral" what they're doing (the irony is great fun thuogh).

quote:
Do you know how many legitimate uses there are for modchips?
-Using different operating systems (e.g Linux on XBOX)

Not a legitamate use.

quote:
-Playing games from different regions that you would not be able to otherwise (or playing them before they are released in NA).

I've always hated region locking, but this isn't as popular as piracy. Hell, on a college campus here soooo many people have modchips, and by far most of them use it to download and burn games and pirate, only a couple people I know use it to import.

quote:
-Making backup copies of games in case the originals become too damaged to play. (I know I wish I had done this with some Playstation games my sister destroyed).

Companies like EA send you a replacement disc if you send them the damaged one.

quote:
-Playing "modded" versions of original games (I recall Final Fantasy VII being modded by some gamers a while back, but you needed a modchip to play their new version)

Never heard of this. But by the same token, this is why I'm so glad MS bans people for life if they connect to Xbox Live with a modded box -- prevents people from playing modded versions of games.

quote:
Saying that modding hardware is not only illegal but immoral is very hard to defend.

It's painfully simple.
The terms you buy the device under specify you can't, if you don't want to agree to them, don't purchase the device. It's immoral AND illegal to buy it and break those terms, whether you think you should be able to is not the point.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 01-03-2003 01:34
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Ahhh, Bush's America, ain't it great?

 
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