28-02-2003 22:49									#31
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Where do you pull that from, Ranger?
Only one place I can think of off-hand.

	28-02-2003 22:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Because before a fetus gains sentience, it is no different from a swine or a duck. If you are against abortion under any circumstances, you should also be a strict vegetarian.

but unlike a duck, a fetus WILL GAIN sentience and become a PERSON if allowed to grow.

	28-02-2003 23:01									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Pro-choice, support death penalty.

Although I want a moratorium on the death penalty because the justice system in the US is racist and if you are rich, you can get off.

	28-02-2003 23:03									#34
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I oppose the death penalty but I support, restricted, regulated abortion.

It's not up to chauvinistic, pig-headed men who have no idea what pregnancy is like, to decide for women, whether or not they have to go through the entire pregnancy.

	28-02-2003 23:05									#35
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Strongly oppose death penalty, on the fence with regards to abortion, more pro-choice than pro-life however.

	28-02-2003 23:33									#36
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Abortion, except for health concerns, rape, etc. is a lazy approach to birth control.

I don't understand. If abortion is killing an innocent human life, why is it any less innocent if it was rape?

	28-02-2003 23:41									#37
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Birth Control methods are not 100% effective Slowwhand.

	28-02-2003 23:44									#38
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Abstination is, Sava. Not that I could manage, but the fact remains.


Garth. Do you tink your mother/wife/girlfriend needs to have the reminder of rape daily?
Do you want the genes of a rapist passed on ?

	28-02-2003 23:51									#39
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Bah, don't even start with that abstination crap. Once you hit 18, you can f**k whatever you want. Sure, there are consequences to having lots of intercourse, but the technology is available to let us have our cake and eat it to.

In terms of abortion, I've never seen statistics, but I wonder how often this late-term abortion stuff happens. I mean, it seems silly that a woman would suddenly decide she just didn't want a baby as she's getting ready to pop. Or the whole partial-birth thing. I mean seriously, how often does a woman just suddenly say, "Oh yeah, I don't want this kid," as it's coming out of her?

And if it doesn't happen all that much, why legislate against it? The slippery-slope consequences of such legislation against partial-birth abortion scares me more than not having it.

For Pro-lifers, if you want to prevent abortion, the promote the use of safe-sex, and birth-control. Teaching abstinence is good, but don't exclude the teaching of other methods. Ignorance is the cause for the spread of disease and for unwanted pregnancy. Trying to fight the raging human hormones is a lost cause. You might as well educate people so they can be responsible in their sex life instead of trying to preach your own moral, often hypocritical, self-righteous views on abstinence.

	28-02-2003 23:54									#40
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I waffle on the DP - in theory, I'm for it, but since the courts seem to **** up a lot, I'm not sure we should be doing it. Oh, ****! Does that lump me in with Sava?
I voted pro-DP in the poll, though, despite my worries about it.

Pro-choice as well.

-Arrian

	01-03-2003 00:00									#41
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I'm not all bad... I'm just an 4sshole!

	01-03-2003 00:10									#42
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I'm against the death penalty. I try not to touch the abortion subject with a ten foot pole (and I better not hear any jokes about that Sava, you pervert), but I'd have to say I'm 'pro-life'. I'm mostly just against it as a method of birth control, but when you devle into the issues of rape, ect... well, I'm not about to pretend my opinion matters to the woman in that case.

	01-03-2003 00:20									#43
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hehe Oswald, I'm hurt you think I'm a pervert that would joke about that

Osweld echos my point exactly. To avert abortion being used as a birth-control method, we need to promote safe-sex and the use of birth control. IMO, abortion should be used as a last-ditch effort in order to control birth. And some people don't believe in it, that's fine. It should be your choice to make, not some self-righteous politician's.

	01-03-2003 00:23									#44
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Osweld speaks for me in this thread.

For people who deny the humanity of an infant though . . . that's the weakest argument ever. In the future please try to base your justification on reality instead of your flat out wrong opinion.

	01-03-2003 00:26									#45
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I'm clearly pro-choice. Unwanted children have nearly no chance of having a good/happy childhood, a good development, a good future. IMO, it prevents much despair to happen, and it prevents many jailbaits, bums, or simply suicidal people to even exist.

Abortion is probably the greatest thing the 20est century brought to the world.

OTOH, I'm against death penatly. Once a human being is born, we have to find a room for him in our society. On the principle, I'm not completely opposed to DP for truly unrecyclable criminals, but it is impossible for a judicial system to judge truly if a criminal can be recycled or not. Hence, an efficient DP is not imaginable.

	01-03-2003 00:29									#46
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Garth. Do you tink your mother/wife/girlfriend needs to have the reminder of rape daily? Do you want the genes of a rapist passed on ?

So your logic is that it's OK to kill innocents, as long as it makes life easier for somebody?

So if somebody committs rape any children they have had previously should be executed?

	01-03-2003 00:33									#47
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You twist things to the point of no longer being recognizeable, Garth.
I said my thoughts, and you're entitled to yours.

	01-03-2003 00:35									#48
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quote: For people who deny the humanity of an infant though

This is a stereotype that has little merit. I have never heard anyone say that an infant is less than human. But an undeveloped fetus is not an infant. There's a distinct difference. People who equate a fetus with an infant are making the mistake.

	01-03-2003 00:42									#49
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand You twist things to the point of no longer being recognizeable, Garth. I said my thoughts, and you're entitled to yours.

Yeah that's about what I expected.

I've never seen a pro-lifer able to logically explain that viewpoint.

	01-03-2003 00:46									#50
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quote: This is a stereotype that has little merit. I have never heard anyone say that an infant is less than human.

you've seen it in this very thread.

On topic: Death Penalty? only in very rare and extreme cases, not as often as it is used now... in the US, for example.
Abortion: I pro, under very severe limitations, as well. A jury to decide, after interviewing the woman, etc.

I think that this approach is the most utilitarian.

	01-03-2003 00:49									#51
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WTF do you want to hear, Garth?
You're evidently too stupid to read and comprehend what I've said already. Why bother elaborating ?

	01-03-2003 00:52									#52
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be nice Slowwy... don't make me shoot lightning out of my ass!

	01-03-2003 00:56									#53
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Well, damn Sava. I tell the guy he's certainly entitled to his opinion, and what's the yield ? Another ******* remark.

	01-03-2003 00:58									#54
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Support DP, against abortion, but I'm very close to center on both. I'm not a crazy Christian Texan.

	01-03-2003 01:10									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand WTF do you want to hear, Garth? You're evidently too stupid to read and comprehend what I've said already. Why bother elaborating ?

I just wanted to understand why you believe what you believe.

I can see that you aren't willing to examine that, so I will drop it. Sorry for the extra comment.

	01-03-2003 01:27									#57
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see we can all get along

	01-03-2003 01:29									#58
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Early-staged fetuses aren't sentient, thus do not warrant legal protection, so I'm pro-choice. OTOH, killing a person in revenge is immoral regardless of whether a person or a state does it, so I oppose the death penalty.

	01-03-2003 02:30									#59
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand See the kind of people we're surrounded by, Doc? Scary as Hell, isn't it ?

Damn straight.

	01-03-2003 02:31									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Early-staged fetuses aren't sentient,

How do you define sentience?