01-03-2003 00:34									#1
	Socialist Book Club Support Apolyton

Inspired by JohnT's science fiction book club (Foundation is the March book peeps!) and the number of socialist/communist/anarchists in the forum, I thought maybe we could have a socialist book club.

So, each month we should nominate a book to be read the next month. Then we vote.

Some guidlines, I think, are in order. First, it should be easily accessable. No trying to foist some obscure work, like say, Oskar Lange's Economic Theory of Socialism on folks. www.marxists.org has a huge free library of books by many different authors, in mulitple languages. I think that should be a starting place when thinking of suggesting a book.

Second, it doesn't necessarily have to be a left wing author. Henry Kissinger, Adolf Hitler, would all be suitable authors. I think, however, at first, we might wish to concentrate on leftists classics.

Third, it should be relatively short. Don't nominate Capital or Wealth of Nations. They're too long to do in a month. That said, if it's the will of the group to try and tackle a bigger work, we could divide it up into several months work, a chapter a week or so.

Fourth, lean towards primary works. Don't nominate Tony Cliffs interpretation of Lenin's State and Revolution (if there is such a thing), nominate State and Revolution.



So, with that said, I would like to nominate Fredreich Engel's Socialism: Utopian and Scientific for March. This is the work that turned socialism into a Marxist movement. Prior to this booklet being released, socialism was a bunch of competing different ideologies. At the request of the French section of the First International, Engels editted a few chapters of his larger work Anti-Dühring into a pamphlet expaining what socialism was, from where it arose, and the Marxist view of socialism. It spread throughout the socialist movement and was far more important that the Communist Manifesto, in gaining adherents to Marxism. It's a fairly easy place to start.

	01-03-2003 00:38									#2
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I would like to nominate J.S.Mill's "Utilitarianism".

	01-03-2003 00:41									#3
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Count me in on this Che. This is a beautiful idea.
I would like to read the Engels book you mention, and for what it's worth, I will toss my hat in the ring and nominate Hardt and Negri's recently published "Empire". The only drawback being that it's not available on Marxists.org and it is probably tougher to read than Kapital (though not as long).
It is significant in that it offers a neo-Marxist look at Globalization, and has been called the communist manifesto of the 21st century.

	01-03-2003 00:45									#4
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So you're switching parties?

	01-03-2003 00:45									#5
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Why not? However I'm going to take pity on participants (including myself) and recommend something that's actually entertaining.

I'll nominate "The Motorcycle Diaries" by Che Guevara. Even if the merest notion of socialism makes you want to puke blood, there's a fair chance you'll still enjoy it.

	01-03-2003 01:12									#6
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I'm interested, but I'll probably do a lot more reading than nominating. I'll try all 3 mentioned so far (Che Monk and Laz)

	01-03-2003 01:13									#7
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Usually I find dry, lengthy philosophical treatises mind-numbingly boring, so in the spirity of Laz's suggestion, I'll nominate Living my Life by Emma Goldman, which is her autobiography.

	01-03-2003 01:18									#8
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quote: I'm interested, but I'll probably do a lot more reading than nominating. I'll try all 3 mentioned so far (Che Monk and Laz)

I was serious

Generally, I think that we should start with a philosophical book. We can later go and try Biographies, and such.

	01-03-2003 01:32									#9
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Are you going to nominate some Ayn Rand next Azazel

Yeah, I think che's nomination is a good idea...I will just have to get hold of it now...

	01-03-2003 01:35									#10
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I agree with Che's nom

Jon Miller

	01-03-2003 01:45									#11
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Richard, how dare you compare one of the most important works on ethics ever with Ayn Rand's work?

	01-03-2003 01:52									#12
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How about Jack London's Iron Heel? It makes you think about big questions of life such as "My god, what kind of a writer names his main character 'Ernest Everhard'?"

It also gives credence to my view that Atlas Shrugged was just a big, very misunderstood parody.

	01-03-2003 01:56									#13
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sounds liek a pornstar name

Jon Miller

	01-03-2003 01:58									#14
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Oh, come on. What kind of a self-respecting porn star would choose to name himself 'Ernest'?

	01-03-2003 02:00									#15
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maybe if it's one of them "mature" pornstars...

	01-03-2003 02:02									#16
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BTW, I fully support suggestions like Laz's, Ramo's and Stefu's. Play is a very important aspect of humanity and one that is forgotten all to often by the left. The Iron Heel, is a pretty decent book, and it describes fascism ten years before Mussolini had even invented it.

BTW, used bookstores are good places to find many of these books, though I doubt Empire or The Motorcycle Diaries have made it there yet.

	01-03-2003 02:04									#17
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I agree with Che's manifesto. We need to read the basis before continuing

	01-03-2003 02:08									#18
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Copycat thread!

	01-03-2003 02:15									#19
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Jack London. maybe will dig up some of those books daddy gave me.

	01-03-2003 02:18									#20
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JS mills utilitarianism is an interesting suggestion and gets to different ideological directions. So far among the ideological works mentioned I have seem Marx, Engels, Lenin, Che, and Emma Goldman. This is to say the least (Marx excepted, and I suppose Engels) one particular view of "socialism" and what is worth learning about it. I myself am intereted in an ideological background for a third way/right social democrat politics. I would therefore be interested in non-Marxist socialists, revisionist Marxist, and left liberals and radicals. In this context Mills would be very interesting. However i dont think thats what the other posters are interested. Perhaps a "third way" book club?? But i dont think I will be participating soon.

	01-03-2003 02:19									#21
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quote: The Iron Heel, is a pretty decent book

I thought it was kinda turgid. Very much like Atlas Shrugged, except way shorter. Still, it was interesting. One thing to look at while reading are the obvious influences it has had on not only Atlas Shrugged (silly names are but one example) but also on Turner Diarrhea Diaries.

While we're looking at playful, how about Robert Tressell's Ragged Trousered Philantropists?

	01-03-2003 02:22									#22
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quote: JS mills utilitarianism is an interesting suggestion and gets to different ideological directions. So far among the ideological works mentioned I have seem Marx, Engels, Lenin, Che, and Emma Goldman. This is to say the least (Marx excepted, and I suppose Engels) one particular view of "socialism" and what is worth learning about it. I myself am intereted in an ideological background for a third way/right social democrat politics. I would therefore be interested in non-Marxist socialists, revisionist Marxist, and left liberals and radicals. In this context Mills would be very interesting. However i dont think thats what the other posters are interested. Perhaps a "third way" book club?? But i dont think I will be participating soon.

Emma Goldman was an anarchist, not a Marxist. The autobiography I mentioned was in large part a criticism of the early Soviet Union.

	01-03-2003 02:33									#23
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I nominate "Arguments for a New Left" by Hilary Wainwright as our first book.

	01-03-2003 02:35									#24
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Although to be fair I haven't read it yet. Maybe "Democracy and Difference" by Anne Phillips would be a better first pick.

	01-03-2003 02:57									#25
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All sound like good nominations guys, when shall we hold a vote?

Last edited by monkspider on 01-03-2003 at 03:02

	01-03-2003 03:01									#26
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I would be interested in non Marxist sociailists also

we should keep a braod focus

Jon Miller

	01-03-2003 03:44									#27
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what about Mao's Little Red Book

	01-03-2003 03:45									#28
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Is that a nomination Ganger?

	01-03-2003 03:57									#29
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yes. I've skimmed through it a couple of times...
Mao didn't really practice what he preached

	01-03-2003 04:01									#30
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Mao's little red book is extremely uninteresting from a socialistic perspective IMHO. A good reading for its historical value though, since it was learned by heart all the Chinese.