03-03-2003 22:54									#91
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Come on, Frogger! Every saw the Cold War and the 'Balance of Terror'. Nukes give you power. They are a status symbol and untouchable status. It has been known for years that if you get nukes, you have power.... especially when you don't give a damn about sanctions.

	11-03-2003 08:26									#92
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I heard on the news that yet another US diplomat has resigned to protest the war. However, I still can't find any details on the Web, yet.

	11-03-2003 09:28									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Come on, Frogger! Every saw the Cold War and the 'Balance of Terror'. Nukes give you power. They are a status symbol and untouchable status. It has been known for years that if you get nukes, you have power.... especially when you don't give a damn about sanctions.

I'm glad somebody bumped this.

What's up with Iran again?

	11-03-2003 09:30									#94
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Something about Iran enriching uranium.

	11-03-2003 09:37									#95
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Yeah. I wonder why they're steaming full-tilt towards it?

It's not like seeing NK and Iraq has taught Iran anything...

	11-03-2003 09:44									#96
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quote: Yeah. I wonder why they're steaming full-tilt towards it? It's not like seeing NK and Iraq has taught Iran anything...

Iran has been working towards nukes for years. How do you think they got on the "Axis of Evil"?

Interesting spin though...

	11-03-2003 09:49									#97
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Drake, look at the progress they made in the ten years prior to 2001. Now compare since then.

And the way they got on the "Axis of Evil" was to take a bunch of Americans hostages in 1980, and not have the decency to have a revolution in the meantime.

They started running scared, for good reason, in the exact direction you should have been worried about. But your President's myopia prevented him from thinking even two steps ahead.

	11-03-2003 09:53									#98
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The "Axis of Evil" is centered on WMDs, particularly nukes. You don't really think that it is a coincidence that the three members of the "Axis" are also the three states actively developing nuclear weapons, do you?

	11-03-2003 09:53									#99
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Iraq is actively developing nuclear weapons?

	11-03-2003 09:53									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The "Axis of Evil" is centered on WMDs, particularly nukes. You don't really think that it is a coincidence that the three members of the "Axis" are also the three states actively developing nuclear weapons, do you?

Nope.

	11-03-2003 09:54									#101
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Do you mind telling me where you got this brilliant piece of intelligence?

	11-03-2003 09:54									#102
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They are scared.

Compare DPRK and Iraq. US won't want to attack DPRK because they are rumored to have nuclear weapons. Even this morning I head the Bush admin is insisting on peacful diplomatic methods of resolving the situation.

	11-03-2003 09:57									#103
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And if you think that Iran and NK are the only 2 states actively developing nukes then you're living in a dream world.

The fact is that getting in the sights of the US is exactly what is going to spur you into taking a nuke development program fully online instead of puttering away in the background.

There's no way you can stop NK now, and almost certainly none to stop Iran either.

	11-03-2003 09:58									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger They are scared. Compare DPRK and Iraq. US won't want to attack DPRK because they are rumored to have nuclear weapons. Even this morning I head the Bush admin is insisting on peacful diplomatic methods of resolving the situation.

Two reasons US won't attack DPRK:

1.) DPRK is effectively contained by highly effective military forces on all sides.

2.) They can be bought.

	11-03-2003 10:00									#105
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Let's name 3 people we don't like. 2 have pretty good weapons and are regional powers. We can't fight them. One we can fight and is no danger wrt nukes.

brilliant strategy.

Tell someone you reserve the right to come for him. He might have been thinking about buying a gun before, but now he's going to get one for sure.

	11-03-2003 10:14									#106
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This shows once again the GWB cabinet has no experience and/or wisdom with regards to international relations.

	11-03-2003 10:15									#107
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 2.) They can be bought.

On the flip side, that means they can made demands that needs to be met. I think Kim Jong-Il knows it.

	11-03-2003 10:21									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger On the flip side, that means they can made demands that needs to be met. I think Kim Jong-Il knows it.

His demands may need to be met, but why is the US obligated to meet them?

	11-03-2003 10:50									#109
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quote: Drake, look at the progress they made in the ten years prior to 2001. Now compare since then.

You do realize that the hardest part about developing nuclear power (for nuclear weaponry) is the beginning stages, don't you? The start-up costs are incredible. Once it gets online, it ain't all that difficult to take the next step.

	11-03-2003 10:51									#110
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Don't even bother, Imran. Frogger's rather adept at ignoring any facts that contradict his position. He's not worth your time...

	11-03-2003 12:45									#111
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Yes I just herad a member of the State department has resigned, (but his position was not noted in thte broadcast, so it very well could've been the Greek diplomat) and it appears the head of foreign affairs or something to that nature is set to resign in Britain as well.

	11-03-2003 13:13									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Drake, look at the progress they made in the ten years prior to 2001. Now compare since then. You do realize that the hardest part about developing nuclear power (for nuclear weaponry) is the beginning stages, don't you? The start-up costs are incredible.

For what, building a breeder reactor? Those things aren't that expensive. Besides, you don't actually need a breeder, you can just enrich the hell out of uranium.

	11-03-2003 14:23									#113
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I agree with Imran in this debate.

	12-03-2003 00:44									#114
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Looks like this idea is catching on...

quote: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. diplomat resigned from government service on Monday in protest of President Bush (news - web sites)'s preparations to attack Iraq (news - web sites), the second to do so in less than a month. John H. Brown, who joined the U.S. diplomatic corps in 1981 and served in London, Prague, Krakow, Kiev, Belgrade and Moscow, said in a letter to Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) made available to the media: "I cannot in good conscience support President Bush's war plans against Iraq. "Throughout the globe the United States is becoming associated with the unjustified use of force. The president's disregard for views in other nations, borne out by his neglect of public diplomacy, is giving birth to an anti-American century," the diplomat added. Brown has recently been attached to the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy at Georgetown University in Washington. Immediately before that, he was cultural attache at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow. A senior U.S. diplomat based in Athens, political counselor John Brady Kiesling, 45, resigned in protest at the Bush administration's policy on Iraq last month.

	12-03-2003 02:57									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Don't even bother, Imran. Frogger's rather adept at ignoring any facts that contradict his position. He's not worth your time...

You're like an unintended irony machine, Drake.

I know more about nuclear infrastructure than you do. I'll bow to a half-dozen people here on the details, and Imran's not one of them either.

The fact is that Iran built a bunch of civvy nuclear sh*t. The equal fact is that a lot of civvy nuke sh*t is convertible to military use. And from what the IAEA's been saying, that's what they've started (fairly) recently with their gaseous uranium enrichers.

Iran doesn't need civvy nuke plants. They were maintaining them as a potential future threat. Well, what they've now seen is that they better actually start laying eggs right this instant because President "Mad Dog" Bush may be comin' to git them good. So they're going to start enriching uranium and maybe at some point start running breeder reactors. And what this means is that a bunch more weapons-grade material floating around in dubious hands...

	12-03-2003 05:36									#116
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quote: I know more about nuclear infrastructure than you do.

And I know more about the politics of non-proliferation than you do. I don't see how your knowledge of nuclear infrastructure has any bearing on your knowledge of the geo-political realities that led to the "Axis of Evil" speech...

	12-03-2003 05:49									#117
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Read Imran's post, to which you replied.

Then explain how his comment is not based entirely on an understanding of the requirements of nuke infrastructure.

Next, present your qualifications in knowing a lot more than me about nuclear non-proliferation politics. Please tell me it's because you're taking PolySci degree or something. I haven't had a good belly laugh all day.

	12-03-2003 05:58									#118
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My reply to Imran had little to do with the argument between you two; I was just expressing my basic feelings on you and your debating style. You refuse to admit you're wrong even when presented with facts and I've lost a lot of respect for you because of it...

	12-03-2003 06:02									#119
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So you quote a post simply to engage in a general attack on me.

I would have lost respect for you if I'd ever developed any to begin with, sweetheart.

Snooze...

	12-03-2003 06:04									#120
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quote: So you quote a post simply to engage in a general attack on me.

Not a "general attack", but a statement of fact...