01-03-2003 14:59									#1
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Out of the US Embassy in Greece, a voice of reason -- soon, alas, to be part of our government no longer . The bold-facing in the text is my addition:

quote: "Thrashing toward self-destruction" In a stinging letter of resignation, senior U.S. diplomat Brady Kiesling says the Bush administration has squandered U.S. legitimacy through a "swaggering and contemptuous" approach to foreign policy. - - - - - - - - - - - - Feb. 28, 2003 | U.S. Diplomat John Brady Kiesling Letter of Resignation, to: Secretary of State Colin L. Powell ATHENS | Thursday 27 February 2003 Dear Mr. Secretary: I am writing you to submit my resignation from the Foreign Service of the United States and from my position as Political Counselor in U.S. Embassy Athens, effective March 7. I do so with a heavy heart. The baggage of my upbringing included a felt obligation to give something back to my country. Service as a U.S. diplomat was a dream job. I was paid to understand foreign languages and cultures, to seek out diplomats, politicians, scholars and journalists, and to persuade them that U.S. interests and theirs fundamentally coincided. My faith in my country and its values was the most powerful weapon in my diplomatic arsenal. It is inevitable that during twenty years with the State Department I would become more sophisticated and cynical about the narrow and selfish bureaucratic motives that sometimes shaped our policies. Human nature is what it is, and I was rewarded and promoted for understanding human nature. But until this Administration it had been possible to believe that by upholding the policies of my president I was also upholding the interests of the American people and the world. I believe it no longer. The policies we are now asked to advance are incompatible not only with American values but also with American interests. Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America's most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson. We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known. Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security. The sacrifice of global interests to domestic politics and to bureaucratic self-interest is nothing new, and it is certainly not a uniquely American problem. Still, we have not seen such systematic distortion of intelligence, such systematic manipulation of American opinion, since the war in Vietnam. The September 11 tragedy left us stronger than before, rallying around us a vast international coalition to cooperate for the first time in a systematic way against the threat of terrorism. But rather than take credit for those successes and build on them, this Administration has chosen to make terrorism a domestic political tool, enlisting a scattered and largely defeated Al Qaeda as its bureaucratic ally. We spread disproportionate terror and confusion in the public mind, arbitrarily linking the unrelated problems of terrorism and Iraq. The result, and perhaps the motive, is to justify a vast misallocation of shrinking public wealth to the military and to weaken the safeguards that protect American citizens from the heavy hand of government. September 11 did not do as much damage to the fabric of American society as we seem determined to do to ourselves. Is the Russia of the late Romanovs really our model, a selfish, superstitious empire thrashing toward self-destruction in the name of a doomed status quo? We should ask ourselves why we have failed to persuade more of the world that a war with Iraq is necessary. We have over the past two years done too much to assert to our world partners that narrow and mercenary U.S. interests override the cherished values of our partners. Even where our aims were not in question, our consistency is at issue. The model of Afghanistan is little comfort to allies wondering on what basis we plan to rebuild the Middle East, and in whose image and interests. Have we indeed become blind, as Russia is blind in Chechnya, as Israel is blind in the Occupied Territories, to our own advice, that overwhelming military power is not the answer to terrorism? After the shambles of post-war Iraq joins the shambles in Grozny and Ramallah, it will be a brave foreigner who forms ranks with Micronesia to follow where we lead. We have a coalition still, a good one. The loyalty of many of our friends is impressive, a tribute to American moral capital built up over a century. But our closest allies are persuaded less that war is justified than that it would be perilous to allow the U.S. to drift into complete solipsism. Loyalty should be reciprocal. Why does our President condone the swaggering and contemptuous approach to our friends and allies this Administration is fostering, including among its most senior officials. Has "oderint dum metuant" really become our motto? I urge you to listen to America's friends around the world. Even here in Greece, purported hotbed of European anti-Americanism, we have more and closer friends than the American newspaper reader can possibly imagine. Even when they complain about American arrogance, Greeks know that the world is a difficult and dangerous place, and they want a strong international system, with the U.S. and E.U. in close partnership. When our friends are afraid of us rather than for us, it is time to worry. And now they are afraid. Who will tell them convincingly that the United States is as it was, a beacon of liberty, security, and justice for the planet? Mr. Secretary, I have enormous respect for your character and ability. You have preserved more international credibility for us than our policy deserves, and salvaged something positive from the excesses of an ideological and self-serving Administration. But your loyalty to the President goes too far. We are straining beyond its limits an international system we built with such toil and treasure, a web of laws, treaties, organizations, and shared values that sets limits on our foes far more effectively than it ever constrained America's ability to defend its interests. I am resigning because I have tried and failed to reconcile my conscience with my ability to represent the current U.S. Administration. I have confidence that our democratic process is ultimately self-correcting, and hope that in a small way I can contribute from outside to shaping policies that better serve the security and prosperity of the American people and the world we share.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...tion/index.html

This is probably the most cogent statement I've read yet about the folly of our current pursuits, and is made stronger by the fact that it's not coming from some pundit or liberal politician but from some guy who's been in the field, doing the job.

	01-03-2003 15:13									#2
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That guy should at least lose his citizenship. His timing could not be worse.

	01-03-2003 15:18									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer That guy should at least lose his citizenship. His timing could not be worse.

Why? He seems like one of those rare Americans who actually understands the meaning of American citizenship.

	01-03-2003 15:26									#4
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He's just an ambassador, he should toe the line even if he disagrees. Even with his beliefs he must realize that now things are worse, because of what he said.

Also, he's become a 'blame america' european, he should stay there. Most Americans don't hold his pov, he is a traitor to them, to the soldiers, and the war effort. The US needs ambassadors like that guy like it needs the knife he stuck in its back.

	01-03-2003 15:53									#5
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Wow, Lancer, the sheer ignorance and arrogance of your statements.

Sad.

	01-03-2003 15:56									#6
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This ambassador is right. When you're a civil servant and disagree with your govenment, either you shut up or leave. He left and he spoke his mind. Clearly. Sincerely.

Lancer, let me disagree completely with you. This guy is not a "hate-America" guy. He happens to love his country and his people, but blames the shortsightedness of your politicians in power. Do you think loving your country equates loving your politicians ? Do you seriously think all Bush-haters in America hate their country ? Don't you think showing concerns for the future of your country because of misleading rulers is much more a token of love than simply not care ?

This diplomat would have done a poor job if he stayed in office, because he considers most of his diplomatic skill comes from his faith in America and in American policy. Now that your administration ruined it, he cannot shine as a diplomat again.


And btw, the more I read your posts, the more dangerous you look. I now see you consider people disagreeing with the war as "traitors". Kinda reminds me some less-than-democratic regimes

	01-03-2003 16:06									#7
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Well Lance, like usual, attack his arguments if you can, but attacking the person without him being able to defend himself is a cowardly act.

	01-03-2003 16:12									#8
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I don't expect many of you guys to agree with me, in fact I think many here are incapable of doing so.

If the invasion of France was on, but all the soldiers decided they didn't agree with the policy of their government, quit and issued a statement against the policy of the president, then France would be part of Nazi Germany today.

Quitting and *****ing is a very weak, self indulgent thing to do imo. The ambassador was out to hurt the adminisration because he disagreed. Well, he did that. He used the position entrusted to him to make a statement against a publicly supported policy of the government of the US.

Now, as I see it, the American people should have the right to disagree with his return to the US.

	01-03-2003 16:18									#9
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"Cowardly act" well well UR, that was easy to post and will be easy to live with. Come to think of it, it didn't take alot of guts to post.

Oh, and btw...republicans are in power. The US will attack Iraq unless Saddan opts to give in in this game of chicken...and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Haaa Haaaa HAAAA Haaa

	01-03-2003 16:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer If the invasion of France was on, but all the soldiers decided they didn't agree with the policy of their government, quit and issued a statement against the policy of the president, then France would be part of Nazi Germany today.

You're wrong, they'd be Soviets.

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Quitting and *****ing is a very weak, self indulgent thing to do imo. The ambassador was out to hurt the adminisration because he disagreed. Well, he did that. He used the position entrusted to him to make a statement against a publicly supported policy of the government of the US.

If everybody thought the same as you, there wouldn't be a United States of America today. That's because they were all toeing the lines of the British government.

Maybe you can explain to me why it is not ethically contemptible to invade Iraq.

	01-03-2003 16:38									#11
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UR : don't you know ? Saddam is the new Hitler ! Do you want him to gather WMD and to take over the world ?

	01-03-2003 16:44									#12
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Spiffor, ask me again in 3 months time, I'll answer you then.

Or, ask your government now, but they won't answer either.

Don't try, you can't figure it out at this time.

Don't forget eh?

	01-03-2003 16:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Spiffor, ask me again in 3 months time, I'll answer you then. Or, ask your government now, but they won't answer either. Don't try, you can't figure it out at this time. Don't forget eh?

Do you mean these questions ?

"Do you think loving your country equates loving your politicians ? Do you seriously think all Bush-haters in America hate their country ? Don't you think showing concerns for the future of your country because of misleading rulers is much more a token of love than simply not care ?"

Or do you mean this one ?

"don't you know ? Saddam is the new Hitler ! Do you want him to gather WMD and to take over the world ?"

	01-03-2003 16:56									#14
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No.

"Maybe you can tell me why it is not ethicly contemptable to attack Iraq"

	01-03-2003 19:05									#15
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The reference to Wilson along with the tone of the letter makes me think that he's more idealist than realist.

Last edited by DinoDoc on 01-03-2003 at 19:22

	01-03-2003 19:11									#16
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And Lancer's response shows what is the consequence of being honest in US politics today.

If you go against the flow with good and valid reasons resignation is not enough you should "lose your citizenship" man U are scary.

	01-03-2003 19:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer If the invasion of France was on, but all the soldiers decided they didn't agree with the policy of their government, quit and issued a statement against the policy of the president, then France would be part of Nazi Germany today.

If German ambassadors/officials had spoken out more in protest against their own country's militancy, perhaps WWII would have been far shorter or never have happened, thus saving millions of lives.

Nowhere is a U.S. Ambassador obligated to toe the line if he believes his government is in the wrong, which is why he resigned.

	01-03-2003 19:19									#18
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"One Foot In the Grave" man, you are not "scary". Can you not concieve of the difference between the rights of a citizen to free speech and the duty of a public servant?

	01-03-2003 19:20									#19
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He has voiced his dissent in an appropriate manner. Even though I disagree with him, I must respect that.

	01-03-2003 19:27									#20
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MM, how do you see his manner of dissent as "appropriate"?

We have Carter and Clinton voicing disagreement with the policy of the sitting pres, now this...

	01-03-2003 19:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer MM, how do you see his manner of dissent as "appropriate"? We have Carter and Clinton voicing disagreement with the policy of the sitting pres, now this...

See the First Ammendment.

	01-03-2003 19:31									#22
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He just threw away his professional life to make that statement. He didn't just shoot off his mouth and go hide behind his tenure, he didn't write some anonymous piece in the papers, he resigned. That is what an honorable man does when he no longer believes in what he is doing.

	01-03-2003 19:43									#23
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MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission... This guy threw it all away, sure...but maybe he didn't have what it took to begin with. Maybe he went to a euro capitol ready to be influenced by an anti American philosophy...the same philosophy that turns so many...

I guess I'm just sick of it. This guy had a job, that job was to serve America. America is its people, its people support the president and the invasion of Iraq, this guy activly undermined that...

I'm just sick of it. I'm angry. I want to serve again.

I'd guess many an old legionaire wantef to serve Rome before the fall, watched the decay...hated it. It's moral decay.

	01-03-2003 19:45									#24
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Speaking of which, here's Boris!

	01-03-2003 19:48									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission... This guy threw it all away, sure...but maybe he didn't have what it took to begin with. Maybe he went to a euro capitol ready to be influenced by an anti American philosophy...the same philosophy that turns so many...

Oh please. Since about 40-45% (and this is just by recent polls) of Americans don't believe in the war, should they be stripped of their citizenship, too? Do you understand what Democracy is?

In fact, when polls give Americans realistic scenarios for the war (like Iraqi civilian casualties), the support flip-flops. Only in the fantasy scenario of us walking in without a fight does America BELIEVE in this mission.

And guess what? They don't believe in it without international support!

So you can stop making BAMs about what Americans BELIEVE. Or you can at least tell us why a public servant can't resign in protest if what he believes conflicts with what his government/country believes.

	01-03-2003 19:51									#26
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How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

	01-03-2003 19:55									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

Considering I've been posting in response to your nonsense several times before that in this thread, and you've ignored it, I don't think you should set up a psychic hotline just yet.

	01-03-2003 20:00									#28
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"I don't think you should set up a psychic hotline just yet"

Boris, I see this as common ground.

	01-03-2003 20:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission....

So GW Bush administration is America?

Sound like Cesar is Rome and Rome is Cesar to me... not very democratic... as MM said he did a very honorable thing and if there was more people in politics like him we would be living in a better world.

and what about the rights of the public servants?

Are they all meant to be GW Bush clones?

	01-03-2003 20:07									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

Oh how I laughed, Lancer. When your arguments are blown away in the lightest zephyr, you go the 'ad hominem' route.

'America believes in this mission'- just do an instant poll did you? Quite a few Americans believe they've been abducted by aliens, and some believe that Europe is in Africa- I wouldn't trust to those kind of 'beliefs' to bolster your position.

One government is not America: one policy does not define America.