01-03-2003 23:20									#1
	Is anyone getting attacked by the AI? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I just want an confirmation, because iv'e stopped defendeing my planets, no system ships are nessesary, no missile bases nor orbital stations are nessesary either.

Because the AI CANT invade planets. They just hang around in orbit. If you lucky you can loose a small colony because of blockade but thats it.

This is really stupid. I just want a confirmation from someone: has the AI EVER taken a planet from you by force?.

Anyone?.

Ive been playing more then 500 turns now, and I have yet to see an attack made by the AI. Atleast in Moo2 i could get wiped out by a superior fleet bombarding system after system. Now they just go to one solar system and hang around there, their fleet growing larger over time but they never move.

Has anyone ever been wiped out in Moo3?

This is really bad, its Call to power II all over again.

	02-03-2003 00:03									#2
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They dont attack me I am playing on normal

	02-03-2003 01:36									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nope, I think the games AI for invasions really needs to be looked at as priority #1. All the other complaints I've seen have work-arounds or are more opinion based, but the non aggressive ai is the main downpoint of the game. Strangely it seems to have no problem invading other AI worlds and I have fought marines etc from worlds they've invaded so they are out there so it must be some bug involving the player .

Its naval size needs to grow more too, in almost every game I have easily larger naval size than any other empire especially when the game is set to hard-impossible.

	02-03-2003 05:16									#4
	Re: Is anyone getting attacked by the AI? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ankh Because the AI CANT invade planets. They just hang around in orbit. If you lucky you can loose a small colony because of blockade but thats it. ... Ive been playing more then 500 turns now, and I have yet to see an attack made by the AI. Atleast in Moo2 i could get wiped out by a superior fleet bombarding system after system. Now they just go to one solar system and hang around there, their fleet growing larger over time but they never move. Has anyone ever been wiped out in Moo3? This is really bad, its Call to power II all over again.

And for *THIS*, they needed to do testing so long?

	02-03-2003 05:25									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Trying to beat Coracles record Tribune? Anyway...

AI has attacked me some, but I haven't seen it launch a ground invasion, only bombarding. Seems like it isn't aggressive enough in that aspect. Seems to defend its own systems fairly well though, just need this tweaked.

	02-03-2003 05:36									#6
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The AI can be good at defending there colonies with system ships and ground forces, but the largest starship force I have seen by the AI is 5 Frigates. The AI definately needs to be "beefed-up" in the area of offensive combat...

	02-03-2003 05:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Never ever seen the AI attack by ground troops, either. The only thing I saw was a post in the official forum where someone said he saw a AI use two troopers against another AI.

	02-03-2003 06:34									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Its confirmed the AI _CANT_ invade your worlds. So you better ignore all what defence is and play Sim Moo3 for that's what this game is now.

Makes we wonder what the hell did the beta testers do?, they sure didnt play. Why did they ruin a game that could have been great?.

How hard can it be to notice?, iv'e noticed it now after playing a couple of days and the beta testers been playing for MONTHS!!.

This is bad very bad indeed, and Quicksilver been braging about how much time they went into coding the AI to be good. And it cant even ATTACK. That must be really hard to code indeed since they failed.


I did this test:

Size: Small Cluster
Diff: Impossible
Starting Member: Yes

Made som colony ships and colonised around 3-4 worlds. Then i pissed every member of the senate of by declaring war, threaten them to make them really hate me. Then i sat with my DEFENSELESS worlds and wating for the AI to conquer them.

By 100 it still has to do so and i guess they never will, and since the only victory condition is sole survivor i guess i can sit and press End turn for infinity.

Hurray Great Job!

	02-03-2003 07:22									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ankh Its confirmed the AI _CANT_ invade your worlds. So you better ignore all what defence is and play Sim Moo3 for that's what this game is now. Makes we wonder what the hell did the beta testers do?

Testing the game for the mass market.

Making sure that *everybody wins*, *regardless what he does*.

We canīt have anybody lose, their feelings might be hurt. They might sue the company.

The handful of people who want to *earn* their winning? Oh, they donīt count. Donīt be silly.

[For the record: You are *not* silly, and I totally agree with you. But some people reading this may be somewhat slow in getting irony, thatīs why I add this disclaimer.]

	02-03-2003 07:27									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ya the AI problem hasnt poped out yet but it will soon enough after more ppl begin to 'learn' the game.

	02-03-2003 07:38									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Killazer ya the AI problem hasnt poped out yet but it will soon enough after more ppl begin to 'learn' the game.

If a computer opponent strategic level ai is as good as non-existent (and this sure sounds like it!), then nothing can be done about it.

To create cutthroat opponents, they would have to practically recode the game; cannot and will not happen in a patch.

Phew! Boy am I glad I missed out on this one.

	02-03-2003 07:49									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The AI has never attacked me with any force greater than a frigate.

K

	02-03-2003 08:33									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

To say that all defenses should be ignored, as some have said above is going a bit overboard.

I have left my frontier colonies undefended and they routinely were being blockaded and starved to death by the enemies. While this is not any form of invasion, it is more than just an annoyance.

	02-03-2003 08:42									#14
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Everyone saying they've never been attacked by forces greater than frigates are living on a different planet...

I've now played only a single game all the way to completion and in the one game I was assaulted by 2 seperate players with large carrier fleets early in the game when I was practically defenseless (this on EASY level). I was lucky to survive the initial rush and buld up my defenses before building my OWN offensive fleets and pummeling the dirt out of those pesky Silicoids and those pesky Sakkra.

That said, once I built up my own sizable fleet, the AI was sending wave after wave after wave of short range corvettes and frigates combined with destroyer or light cruiser carriers, but to no avail. I had better tech, the common sense to defend my task forces with plenty of point defense craft in the escort rings, and plenty of good cruiser-sized carriers at my choke-point system (and I was lucky that this ONE system blocked off my whole half of the map ).

That was on EASY level.

As for ground assault... I've never seen the AI invade a planet, either. But I've only been playing on easy level and I've only played a few times... so I honestly don't know whether it's either of those factors.

I did notice that in all three of the games where I've fought wars (and especially that one where I was hit by two opponents fairly early in the game), the AI doesn't seem to bring transports along with their attack forces. For all I know, this could simply be because the AI likes to establish blockades before sending in the transports (which then have to be gathered and deployed from their nearest deployment point and TRAVEL all the way to the world to be invaded.... which MIGHT be why we arne't seeing the AI invade planets before we can knock off the blockade).

	02-03-2003 09:56									#15
	Suffering from ads?

There's been some talk that the difficulty levels got switched around in the last build, hence EASY is more difficult than IMPOSSIBLE. My next run is going to be on easy to take a gander at this...

-infidel

	02-03-2003 10:21									#16
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Wonder if the AI is forcing troop ship production on non-player races as well. That would be kinda wasteful considering they don't know how to use them.

	02-03-2003 10:53									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The Ithkul in my most recent game invaded my planet. It wasn't anything pitiful either. It was well over 1200 troops, 300 mobils and I forget how many support units. The sad part about this is they used all that on a brand new world. It only had 15 militia to fight it off lol. I'd like to see that used against a homeworld. Thousands of troops engaging thousands of troops. Talk about an epic ground battle. How many turns would that take? Oh and btw I was playing on easy.

	02-03-2003 10:56									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

OMG I think you're right!!! I've been too busy grumbling about the ship design screen and the AI build queue to even notice, but I too have never had the AI do anything but blockade my planets. He did build some decent fleets, but never took one of my worlds. Plus I'm still plodding through my first game on easy, and it does appear that the difficulties are reversed. I'm way behind on tech, but I have no racial tech disadvantage, and own a good piece of the galaxy. I'd say that maybe I haven't been building the tech infrastructure of my worlds, but then again, you never get to do that in this game anyway, this wonderfully advanced AI is supposed to handle that for you. So mad right now I can't think straight. Time to power down and read a good book before I pop.

	02-03-2003 11:16									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Uppdate:

Iv'e tried one game REALLY trying to get killed. And the results are very disturbing. This game is in serious trouble and I doubt it can be saved with this horrible AI, look at this.

- Ankhs Operation Getting Eliminated -


Settings:

Diff: Impossible
Starlanes: Long-Lots (So they can attack me easier)
Galaxy: Small
CPU Players: 4 (so they dont fight eachother to much)
Race: Silicoids (dont need food so hard to blocade)


Strategy:

1. Making all ships obselete exept Colony Ships.
2. Set "All planets priority: Mining"
3. Scout around with scouts untill they get killed
4. Turn AI Colonisation ON
5. Disband starting system ships
6. Press "END TURN"
7. Declaring War with all races met so far, Goto 6.

Its a killer strategy isnt it .

Results:

Turn: 100
Planets: 7
Largest Enemy Orbiting Fleet: 3
Planets Invaded: 0

One Hundered turns passed with constant war and not a SINGLE starship to be able to defend my colonies. So far nothing. 1 Fleet orbiting, doing nothing.

Turn: 156
Planets: 9!!!
Largest Enemy Orbiting Fleet: 9
Planets Invaded: 0

On this turn the AI launches a ground assoult on a newly created world. I look in awe as the AI ground force (1 Mobile) fight against mine (1 Militia). The AI wins and I have finally lost my first world. It was a new colony only a few turns old but anyway it counts.

Turn: 250+
Planets: 8
Largest Enemy Orbiting Fleet: 17
Planets Invaded: 1

Nothing is happening, im still alive Even though I TRIED so hard getting killed. Maybe they should change the rules to: first player getting eliminated wins. Because its much harder getting eliminated then winning in this game. Exits Moo3.


Result: If I can survive on the hardest difficulty for 250+ turns without building a SINGLE starship on a small map then their's something really wrong with this game. Im sorry but Moo3 is flawed beyond all recognition.

Sorry folks

Try it yourself you'll be amazed how weak the AI is.

	02-03-2003 11:20									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmm maybe the diff is reversed somehow, since ppl posting are actually GETTING ATTACKED, wow must be an experience.

I'll retry my test on "easy" .

	02-03-2003 11:49									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Someone, test the same thing but build a little fleet that stays home or something. Would you bet that the AI is attacking proportionally to the forces you have or something like that?...

And of course, could a few persons other than Ankh test this thing so we get more than one source?

	02-03-2003 13:12									#22
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It too soon to say for sure. May-be their can patch the computer player AI to fix this. Game company are in a trickly fix make than game impossible for a player to win no matter
what he does, example: Star Reach by Interplay, the player lose interest in the game he or she cannot win.

	02-03-2003 13:53									#23
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I'd like to mention that the AI (according to some spreadsheet files) tries to build the size of his fleet in comparison (to yours?). That means that if you don't have any ships, the AI maybe doesn't see reasons to build a lot itself.

BUT: There are other AI races and it shouldn't just take your fleet size into consideration (and maybe it doesn't).

Another BUT: Still it should be able to launch ground attacks.

And a last BUT: Even when having a fleet yourself, the AI seems to be absolutely unable to attack you.
Meaning I don't want to defend the AI at all (QS: FIX IT!), I just want to point out that your test may be a little bit off.

Last edited by Todd Hawks on 02-03-2003 at 14:03

	02-03-2003 15:43									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sounds like they spent alot of time developing and testing multi-player and very little time on single player. I'm sure not getting attacked isn't an issue in multiplayer.

	02-03-2003 17:34									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff the player lose interest in the game he or she cannot win.

That might be true... But I also loose interest in a game I cannot loose! And that's what moo3 is at the moment!

However, i'll also check this reversed difficulty theory! My last hope before a patch!

	02-03-2003 17:38									#26
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I cant believe that a game with the great ground combat like moo3 wont ever be used by the A.I.

	02-03-2003 18:22									#27
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I have been playing on easy 2 arm large and few star lanes. I don't know about the invading part, but I do know them orion suck They like to send out a massive fleet and kill my planets in one shot Come to think about it, none of the empires I am at war with ever try to invade, and if they do,I usually have a tf there to take their tf out. Anyways, this game is much better than MoO2

	02-03-2003 18:55									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You are insane LitLeftofMentar... How can you rant like that and say the game is better than MoO2. That is absolute nonsense. Your statements don't even agree with themselves.

	02-03-2003 19:12									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So what's the latest word?

Is it true that the AI doesn't invade your planets?

For the developers to delay and delay and delay releasing Moo3 only to have a problem like this slip through is absolutely unacceptable. That is poor business. What on earth did they spend their time on then?

The computer gaming industry is getting to the point where it is not worth it for the customer to waste his money on buying games. If computer gaming companies cannot produce nearly bug free games out of the box then they are a bunch of muppets who donot deserve my hard earned cash. Imagine buying a home appliance, a new car, etc. and having the manufacturer tell you that don't use it but hold onto your purchase. We will issue a fix for you in about a month. We are sorry for this and realize that before we release a product to market it should work. But you know what? You (the customer) are all a bunch of losers and all we want from you is your money. bwahaahahahah

I say bullocks!!!!!!! F them and their evil greed.

I'm sticking to console gaming because atleast console games work right out of the box.

	02-03-2003 19:44									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It IS invading your planet, but only VERY rarely. Not even a slightest thread.

I for myself have jet to see it invading a planet of mine (which are not well defended, planetray defence when the AI builds it and thats it).