05-03-2003 04:47									#31
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quote: Originally posted by tinyp3nis Okay... but didn't you say: Uh Why should this matter? Because it's related to the issue? Not because he is doing a good thing? Does the impact you have on society / other people matter or no?

Because the organ donation system should work as a network of people banded together to share organs.

If you choose to leave that network, then fine. But you'll be a charity case if you end up receiving an organ, not member.

As long as criminals have indicated their willingness to share their organs with me in the event of death, then I don't see why my organs shouldn't be shared with them. The larger the network grows the better for all concerned.

	05-03-2003 04:50									#32
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quote: Yet, they shouldn't be pushed to the top of list.

I don't think they are. The organ donation list isn't mandated by the government; it's run by a non-profit organization in the States, IIRC...

quote: Also, if your serving life, you should have no chance of it, since you are suppose to serve your "natural life" as the sentence

That's the oddest justification I've ever heard. Prisoners, no matter what their sentence are entitled to equal medical care.

	05-03-2003 04:52									#33
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quote: If one is not willing to give up an organ for someone else, why should one expect to receive one?

I don't know anyone like that. Do you honestly believe that is why so many people aren't doners? There is another reason.. think about.
Edit: spell

	05-03-2003 04:57									#34
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What are you trying to say here?

So many people aren't donors because:

a) They're lazy and don't sign a card
b) They're squeamish
c) The undoubtedly correct laws against the traffic in human organs mean that they don't see a benefit from donation

Now tell them that unless they sign that card they're going to be last in line for organ donation should their time come.

I'd rather donate my organs to a criminal who has signed an organ donation card than some pr*ck who thinks he deserves to receive an organ without having to donate his after he dies.

	05-03-2003 04:58									#35
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Organ donation is easy, costs you nothing, and saves lives. Sign the f*cking card and discuss it with your family, people.

	05-03-2003 04:59									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Because the organ donation system should work as a network of people banded together to share organs. If you choose to leave that network, then fine. But you'll be a charity case if you end up receiving an organ, not member. As long as criminals have indicated their willingness to share their organs with me in the event of death, then I don't see why my organs shouldn't be shared with them. The larger the network grows the better for all concerned.

I take this as a no. Fine. How lucky for those nice people who have heard about this in the first place +had time time and opportunity to fill out a form versus those nice people who haven't.

	05-03-2003 04:59									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Organ donation is easy, costs you nothing, and saves lives. Sign the f*cking card and discuss it with your family, people.

This leaves kids out btw.

	05-03-2003 05:01									#38
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quote: That's the oddest justification I've ever heard. Prisoners, no matter what their sentence are entitled to equal medical care.

I'm voting banana.

	05-03-2003 05:01									#39
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quote: I'd rather donate my organs to a criminal who has signed an organ donation card than some pr*ck who thinks he deserves to receive an organ without having to donate his after he dies.

Everyone is like you, knows what you know...

Edit: And one last thing some pr*ck . Is this the issue or no? I still think we should consider the person as a whole. Not as easy as checking if he has filled a form or not but more fair.

	05-03-2003 05:06									#40
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In Canada, on the back of everybody's Medicare card (which you have to have to receive medical care) is a place to stick a sticker (which comes with the new Medicare card you get every 4 years).

It reads:

"I hereby consent to the removal, upon my death, of all my organs that are suitable for transplant"

Followed by a line, under which is written "Signature of donor or of guardian of donor under the age of 14"

That's how damn hard it is. It takes me 10 seconds every 4 years.

	05-03-2003 05:08									#41
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quote: This leaves kids out btw.

a) No it doesn't (where I live 14 is the age of consent for donors, and their parents may donate the child's organs at any age younger than that)

b) I would have no problem with excepting the children of pr*cks who don't sign their cards for them.

	05-03-2003 05:09									#42
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quote: Edit: And one last thing some pr*ck . Is this the issue or no? I still think we should consider the person as a whole. Not as easy as checking if he has filled a form or not but more fair.

If you haven't signed your organ donor card then you're either interminably lazy or a *****. Get off your ass and save a life.

	05-03-2003 05:14									#43
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My card doesn't have that, issued 1991. I wonder if they do nowadays.

	05-03-2003 05:18									#44
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Oh yeah and would you give a total bastard your liver if he had signed?

	05-03-2003 05:25									#45
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Yes.

I don't care if he rapes little boys for fun, either.

This is the only reasonable way to show people a return on donating organs.

	05-03-2003 05:29									#46
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quote: I don't care if he rapes little boys for fun, either.

You go to great lengths to keep your original opinion.
OKok, you might have had this opinion from the start, but nevertheless

	05-03-2003 05:30									#47
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they never asked me to sign for it when I got my drivers liscence

In any case back then I felt I wasn't very healthy, and no one would want my crappy organs . I felt I could do better good by not giving my unhealthy organs to other people.

But I'm starting to realize I'm a fairly healthy people. I have noticed this after I seen what people do to their bodies . I am exposed to a lot of second hand smoke though . Part of the job description of a male stripper.

	05-03-2003 08:49									#48
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No. And I mean no.

	05-03-2003 22:59									#49
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 After this we can include, Boris' suggestion of parents with children younger than 18.

Huh? I didn't suggest that at all. In fact, I don't agree with it at all!

	05-03-2003 23:18									#50
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If there are enough livers, then anyone that needs one gets one. If there are not enough then, like it or not, we need a system to determine who gets a liver and survives and also who does not and dies.

Most of the suggestions are various attempts to "rank" people by some criteria based on some ideas of merit. I actually like Frogger's idea of giving signed organ donors priority in getting organs. If EVERYONE signed the donor cards, we should have enough organs that no one need die due to lack of a suitable organ ( excepting out rare blood types I imagine).

Other attempts to set up a meritocracy to determine ranking would fall down based on the divergent things that people happen to value. For example, the parenthood factor was trumpeted by some but panned by others. I don't have a problem with trying to come up with a better way to prioritize who gets organs but I fear that it is doomed to failure--

	06-03-2003 00:11									#51
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i have no problem with criminals getting organ transplants, as long as no else more deserving (and by more deserving i mean anyone other than a convicted killer) needs one...

	06-03-2003 00:24									#52
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney i have no problem with criminals getting organ transplants, as long as no else more deserving (and by more deserving i mean anyone other than a convicted killer) needs one...

The whole issue is in determining who is more deserving. Most people would have no issue with giving a liver to an innocent 21 year old in preference to a multiple murderer for instance but that is the easy case. What about if its not a murderer but an embezzler? Or you take out pout into the outside world and your candidates might be an alcoholic mother of 3 that destroyed her first liver with booze and a career petty thief that lost his liver to disease unrelated to behavior. If that choice is too easy, you can switch factors around until you get one where people would be 50-50 on the merits of the individuals needing the liver.

Determining merit is very hard. Are you not implicitly trying to value one human life against another? I shudder to think that anyone would find that easy.

	06-03-2003 00:27									#53
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i know that it is rarely black and white, but i hardly think that it would take a great effort to find someone who deserves a second chance more than this woman.

	06-03-2003 00:28									#54
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I just don't think that a medical organisation should be in the business of morally evaluating their patients to decide on treatment.

	06-03-2003 00:30									#55
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when $200,000 of public money is involved i think that some such judgement needs to be made.

	06-03-2003 00:38									#56
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No it doesn't, sweetie.

You do have socialised health care in Britain, don't you? Every operation here, at lest, involves expenditure of public monies. Doesn't mean that the State has the right to dictate the terms of treatment. Doctors do that, without regard to their personal opinion of the worth of the life involved (I hope).

	06-03-2003 00:43									#57
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i don't propose that doctors start to take those kind of decisions, merely that those who control the purse strings give priority to people who are not convicted killers.

	06-03-2003 00:45									#58
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Are you having troubles reading?

quote: Doesn't mean that the State has the right to dictate the terms of treatment

	06-03-2003 12:14									#59
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more yes's than I expected.

There will be those who say- where do we draw the line?

Well we could draw the line on life sentences with no possiblity of parole. Anything equal to or higher than that should not get a transplant as they will never have the opportunity to be productive members of society.

Although an exemption should be allowed if the recipient also agrees to donate their organs.

	06-03-2003 13:31									#60
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Why the hell does it matter if they're "productive members of society?" What the hell is a "productive member of a society?" Do you think that the uneducated poor don't deserve to get transplants?