03-03-2003 13:39									#1
	Should a convicted killer get a liver transplant?- and other organ donation issues Increase the size of your Attachments

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/...r.ap/index.html

the poll will focus on the convicted killer.

There is another issue bothering conservatives as well. The fact that someone can illegally enter this country and jump to the top of an organ donation list just because they are an illegal alien. I'm not sure if this is the case. I have no idea how that girl jumped in line for the organ donation list.

And what about celebrities? How do they jump to the top of organ donation lists?

The whole system is corrupt if you ask me. There has to be some major money changing hands somewhere.

	03-03-2003 14:04									#2
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In my opinion, organ-transplant patients should be prioritized according to state of health, age, and family status like this:

1. People who are likely to die within weeks if they don't get a transplant should be first in line whenever an organ becomes available, then...

2. Children and young adults age 21 and under.

3. Parents with children under the age of 18.

4. Parents with children over 18.

5. Everybody else.

According to these criteria, the murderer would be in category 4. And where medical decisions are concerned, her status as a convict should be immaterial.

	03-03-2003 14:13									#3
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Granted there may be more deserving people who need transplants given this woman's age (68), but why the hell should her status as a convict prevent her from getting a liver transplant? Prison shouldn't be about punishment or causing people to suffer, but rehabilitation and protecting society (including inmates). The state can't rehabilitate or protect her if she dies from some liver condition.

	03-03-2003 14:18									#4
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I'm with AnnC and Ramo.

	03-03-2003 17:45									#5
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quote: Originally posted by AnnC In my opinion, organ-transplant patients should be prioritized according to...family status

Seems slightly discriminatory against homosexuals, the infertile and those who simply choose not to have children...

	03-03-2003 18:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies Seems slightly discriminatory against homosexuals, the infertile and those who simply choose not to have children...

not OK, not OK, OK

why don't we just support more adoption (and homosexuals adopting)?

Jon Miller

	03-03-2003 18:53									#7
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I say we help law-abiding citizens first. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. And last time I checked, dying from a failing liver is a natural cause. I guess my final answer would depend on the length of her sentence. In my America, killers would get the death penalty anyways. This way, the prison system doesn't have to waste the drugs with lethal injection.

	03-03-2003 19:32									#8
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Not just no, but Hell no.
You who voted "Yes", are in need of drug testing.

	03-03-2003 19:35									#9
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Are Doctors allowed to make such distinctions, don't they have to go soley on clinical need

	03-03-2003 20:09									#10
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i concur with sloww.

quote: Taxpayers would pay up to $200,000 for Joy's transplant because of a 1976 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that prisoners have a constitutional right to equal medical care. The decision requires government entities to cover the medical costs of their inmates.

thats less than a dollar each! my dallah!

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	03-03-2003 20:34									#11
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I thought the US is civilised enough to give people a second chance?

	03-03-2003 20:42									#12
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quote: Not just no, but Hell no.

what if he gets a headache or severe diarreha? shouldn't he get treatment for that either?

	03-03-2003 20:44									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf what if he gets a headache or severe diarreha? shouldn't he get treatment for that either?

i dont see how they could blow $200,000 on an asprin or some immodium ad, and i dont see how that would be possibly denying someone else asprin.

	03-03-2003 20:50									#14
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I just got the impression he would deny her a new liver because she's a convict. Now that would be silly.

	03-03-2003 20:54									#15
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Unless the judge said something else the a person is sentenced to prison, not getting his or her health ignored. Then again there's the matter of the order on the list that could be debated.

	03-03-2003 21:00									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf I just got the impression he would deny her a new liver because she's a convict. Now that would be silly.

it says she's serving life, but it doesn't say without parole, so it's not clear cut at all.

but in MY opinion, people who destroy their liver via drugs / alcohol should not get them before needy people who have done nothing agsint their own bodies.

don't hospitals (in the US) do that too?

	03-03-2003 21:13									#17
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From the link:

quote: YORK, Nebraska (AP) -- Calvin Stock's life was saved by a liver transplant three years ago, and he would hate to see anyone else lose their chance at survival because a convicted killer was ahead of them on the transplant list.

I don't object her having one if livers were of abundance. I do think "bad people" shouldn't get ahead in the line, I'm not totally sure she is a bad person, but "most likely" fits better than "probably" here.
and

quote: Joy, convicted of murdering another prostitute in Omaha in 1983, admits her liver was ruined by almost daily heroin and alcohol abuse over nine years.

Not that I have anything againts alcohol or drugs, but people who haven't had any influence on their condition go prior the ones that have had, even as innocent as this. Of course she didn't have intent to break her liver, however I doubt she was oblivious to the health issues.

quote: "Whether or not she's a prisoner or not does not enter the equation," Lagnas said. Ethically as a physician, it's our responsibility to be advocates for whatever patients we are treating."

quote: Dr. Lainie Friedman Ross with the MacLean Center for Clinical Medical Ethics at the University of Chicago, said people should receive transplants based on need, not social standards.

quote: "I'm a workaholic, and when I get my first heart attack I'll say I've earned it but no one will keep me off a list for that," Ross said. "We don't blame the workaholic but we blame the alcoholic. ... Yeah, she belongs on the list like I belong on the list."

And finally some total BS. The bolded part is so obvious, yet so irrelevant. It's about choosing the patient first. Then that. It really seems that _whatever_ patient is being treated, and she's not really young either (49). Also, society encourages work, not alcohol. The convict belongs to the list, not on top thought so sad so sad.

Edit: Did I say anything that wasn't already said? Maybe not

	03-03-2003 21:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by tinyp3nis I don't object her having one if livers were of abundance. I do think "bad people" shouldn't get ahead in the line, I'm not totally sure she is a bad person, but "most likely" fits better than "probably" here.

I agree, as long as she can wait. If she is about to die, I reckon she will get the transplant first.

	03-03-2003 21:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf what if he gets a headache or severe diarreha? shouldn't he get treatment for that either?

This is representative of what's wrong with the world today. Bastarization of concepts.
Is the convicted killer denying a headache or diarreha to someone in need?

	03-03-2003 22:25									#20
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I'm just wondering if you'd deny her a liver even if there were more than enough available

	03-03-2003 22:33									#21
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The point is, there's not livers to go around.

And, I recognize aspirin or milk of magnesia would seem a better analogy, but I was attempting to illustrate bastardization of a concept.

	03-03-2003 22:42									#22
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quote: Originally posted by AnnC In my opinion, organ-transplant patients should be prioritized according to state of health, age, and family status like this: 1. People who are likely to die within weeks if they don't get a transplant should be first in line whenever an organ becomes available, then... 2. Children and young adults age 21 and under. 3. Parents with children under the age of 18. 4. Parents with children over 18. 5. Everybody else. According to these criteria, the murderer would be in category 4. And where medical decisions are concerned, her status as a convict should be immaterial.

Don't like these at all. For instance, category 1 should also be weighed against the probability of the person dying anyway. For instance, I was appalled they gave a new liver to Mickey Mantle. He died a short while later, and there was a waste of an organ that could have gone to a less hopeless cause.

Children aren't going to be competing with adults for most organs, so they are kind of a special case.

As for everyone esle, it should be blind to age, race, social status, family status, etc. I don't see why a parent should be put ahead of me on the list, especially one whose kids are over 18.

As for this woman, if she is in line to get an organ and it becomes available, and she stands a good chance of surviving a while with it, then I see no reason for her not to have the operation.

	03-03-2003 22:56									#23
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Before I go talking I should say that my father is a liver transplant receiver, he received it from a young woman that died in a car accident, she was mother of one. May she rest in peace.

quote: As for everyone esle, it should be blind to age, race, social status, family status, etc. I don't see why a parent should be put ahead of me on the list, especially one whose kids are over 18.

I can see your point for people who's kids are over 18, but If a regular person dies, say, you, then you're dead. If he dies, he dies, AND his son becomes a social case, with a probabity of his family falling apart, etc.

Generally, I think that post-mortum (sp?) compulsory organ donation is the way to go. I am about to volounteer anyway, but that would be just me.

	03-03-2003 23:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Generally, I think that post-mortum (sp?) compulsory organ donation is the way to go.

I tend to agree.

	04-03-2003 14:07									#25
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that's a tricky issue.

I believe in human rights above all else. but if you're dead, you're not really human are you . So maybe rights don't mean much when you die.

But you have to think of the family's rights. Ceremonial burial practices are something that nearly every civilization practices in some form or another. It obviously is an important part of the human pysche. And some family's would not want their deceased love ones desecrated.

	04-03-2003 14:40									#26
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I don't think it should be mandatory to give your organs.

But I think that if you're in an accident and you haven't signed an organ-donor card then you should go to the back of the line.

	04-03-2003 14:43									#27
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And yes, a convicted killer should have an equal shot at donated organs. The list shouldn't take AnnC's bloody family nonsense into account either. Medical viability of the recipient should be taken into consideration, however.

	05-03-2003 04:24									#28
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quote: And yes, a convicted killer should have an equal shot at donated organs.

Okay... but didn't you say:

quote: But I think that if you're in an accident and you haven't signed an organ-donor card then you should go to the back of the line.

Uh Why should this matter? Because it's related to the issue? Not because he is doing a good thing? Does the impact you have on society / other people matter or no?

	05-03-2003 04:37									#29
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If one is not willing to give up an organ for someone else, why should one expect to receive one?

That's the thought that Dissident tries to express above, although his implementation could be improved.

I think we will all agree that children should be moved to the front of the line, followed by medical urgency, and medical feasibility. After this we can include, Boris' suggestion of parents with children younger than 18.

	05-03-2003 04:43									#30
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A convicted killer should have equal rights to organ transplants, the gov decreed it some time ago. Yet, they shouldn't be pushed to the top of list. Also, if your serving life, you should have no chance of it, since you are suppose to serve your "natural life" as the sentence.